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Help with a football discussion? (transition from DE to OLB)

 
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BwickBrownie


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 1359
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:06 pm    Post subject: Help with a football discussion? (transition from DE to OLB) Reply with quote

Hey everyone... as you guys are some of the most knowledgeable football people I have access to, I'm hoping you can help me out. I'm in a Browns draft discussion with a bunch of friends and several are talking about wanting to draft Jarvis Jones and not liking the idea of drafting any players who didn't play linebacker in college (i.e. Damontre Moore, who would have to transition from DE). To me, that seems pretty limiting and not really a negative when drafting, but I don't know if I can really put together a legitimate argument against it. Anyone have some good insight they could provide with that (even if it is supporting an argument against drafting a DE)?
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LETSGOBROWNIES


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moore played OLB in a 3-4 in 2011, so the transition should be pretty simple.

Dion Jordon also played with both his hand in the dirt and up.

More or less the player simply needs to show the necessary skill set. The one skill that many DE have trouble with is turning their hips and getting depth in coverage when asked to drop.
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fsubrowns9510


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with a football discussion? (transition from DE to Reply with quote

BwickBrownie wrote:
Hey everyone... as you guys are some of the most knowledgeable football people I have access to, I'm hoping you can help me out. I'm in a Browns draft discussion with a bunch of friends and several are talking about wanting to draft Jarvis Jones and not liking the idea of drafting any players who didn't play linebacker in college (i.e. Damontre Moore, who would have to transition from DE). To me, that seems pretty limiting and not really a negative when drafting, but I don't know if I can really put together a legitimate argument against it. Anyone have some good insight they could provide with that (even if it is supporting an argument against drafting a DE)?


It is very limiting.

From my understanding and I don't know much about the 1 gap vs the 2 gap but the idea is to have massive guys on your DL, ideally 300lbs plus. I might be wrong but your OLBs in a 3-4 should be guys who played DE in college who would be too undersized to make much of an impact in a 3-4 line.

Using your friends mentality, you'd be passing up guys like Terrelle Suggs, DeMarcus Ware, LaMaar Woodley etc. All those guys played on the DL in college and all those guys are OLBs in the pros.
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ReggieCamp


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In an ideal world, NFL teams who run a 3-4 would like to see their draftees play as an OLB in a 3-4. But currently, there aren't enough 3-4 defenses in the NCAA to draft only 3-4 OLB's. Teams have no choice but to draft 4-3 DE's and project how they would be as 3-4 OLB's.

It's not as much of a projection as it used to be, though. 4-3 schemes have the DE's drop into coverage more often than years past (due mainly to defending the pass more often), so scouts get to see some film on guys defending a zone or manning up on a TE or RB.
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BwickBrownie


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhhh... thanks guys! The advice is definitely appreciated.

One more thing... are there drills at the combine to focus on that would help determine if a player is better suited to make the transition? I.E. if defensive end XYZ does (insert drill here) well, they are probably capable of making the transition to OLB moreso than someone who does poorly at it?

I've never really focused this much on the position, but given the unique circumstances of the Browns moving to a 3-4 hybrid and the influx of talent in the draft at DE/OLB, I just want to know what to look for.
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fsubrowns9510


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BwickBrownie wrote:
Ahhhh... thanks guys! The advice is definitely appreciated.

One more thing... are there drills at the combine to focus on that would help determine if a player is better suited to make the transition? I.E. if defensive end XYZ does (insert drill here) well, they are probably capable of making the transition to OLB moreso than someone who does poorly at it?

I've never really focused this much on the position, but given the unique circumstances of the Browns moving to a 3-4 hybrid and the influx of talent in the draft at DE/OLB, I just want to know what to look for.


Going off what LETSGOBROWNIES posted, you're going to need a guy who has good hip movement so that he can drop into coverage when needed. Guys that are 6'4 260lbs have to prove that they can do it well.

Check the link below, it goes over the LB drills at the combine. I consider the 1st 2 and the last 2 drills shown to be the most important in this transition.

http://theredzone.org/NFLCombine/NFLCombineSkillDrills/LinebackerDrills.aspx

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I think any guy who is a tweener is definitely asked to do the LB drills, correct?

Otherwise these are the drills then run, which primarialy means they will be on the DL in the NFL

http://theredzone.org/NFLCombine/NFLCombineSkillDrills/DefensiveLinemenDrills.aspx
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ReggieCamp


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BwickBrownie wrote:
Ahhhh... thanks guys! The advice is definitely appreciated.

One more thing... are there drills at the combine to focus on that would help determine if a player is better suited to make the transition? I.E. if defensive end XYZ does (insert drill here) well, they are probably capable of making the transition to OLB moreso than someone who does poorly at it?

I've never really focused this much on the position, but given the unique circumstances of the Browns moving to a 3-4 hybrid and the influx of talent in the draft at DE/OLB, I just want to know what to look for.

I'm no expert, but things like the 3-cone drill and the shuttle runs test for both agility and change of direction. When a guy times poorly in 1 or more of these kinds of drills, it just adds a data point to the evaluation. Not only can it help judge a guy on his ability to cover receivers, but it can also tell you something about his pass rushing.
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fsubrowns9510


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ReggieCamp wrote:
BwickBrownie wrote:
Ahhhh... thanks guys! The advice is definitely appreciated.

One more thing... are there drills at the combine to focus on that would help determine if a player is better suited to make the transition? I.E. if defensive end XYZ does (insert drill here) well, they are probably capable of making the transition to OLB moreso than someone who does poorly at it?

I've never really focused this much on the position, but given the unique circumstances of the Browns moving to a 3-4 hybrid and the influx of talent in the draft at DE/OLB, I just want to know what to look for.

I'm no expert, but things like the 3-cone drill and the shuttle runs test for both agility and change of direction. When a guy times poorly in 1 or more of these kinds of drills, it just adds a data point to the evaluation. Not only can it help judge a guy on his ability to cover receivers, but it can also tell you something about his pass rushing.


Adding off this as well, the 3 cone drill is overall 1 of the most important IMo. The 40 time is just straight out speed. Unless a guy hits 4.2 or 6.0 I really don't see it as being a huge factor. I think too many people put too much stock in 40 times than they do 3 cone and shuttle which IMO are far more important in showing a players speed.
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fsubrowns9510


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will also add that in the grand scheme of things its still very difficult to be 100% guaranteed that they will pan out.

Mayock said he loved our Veikune pick; then showed combine clips of how good his hip monement was, how good his speed was and we all know how that one turned out.

At the end of the day, these drills are helpful so scouts, gms and coaches have an idea of what they may face in a transition but it still takes alot of work by all parties to have a DE make a successful transition to OLB.
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LETSGOBROWNIES


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fsubrowns9510 wrote:
ReggieCamp wrote:
BwickBrownie wrote:
Ahhhh... thanks guys! The advice is definitely appreciated.

One more thing... are there drills at the combine to focus on that would help determine if a player is better suited to make the transition? I.E. if defensive end XYZ does (insert drill here) well, they are probably capable of making the transition to OLB moreso than someone who does poorly at it?

I've never really focused this much on the position, but given the unique circumstances of the Browns moving to a 3-4 hybrid and the influx of talent in the draft at DE/OLB, I just want to know what to look for.

I'm no expert, but things like the 3-cone drill and the shuttle runs test for both agility and change of direction. When a guy times poorly in 1 or more of these kinds of drills, it just adds a data point to the evaluation. Not only can it help judge a guy on his ability to cover receivers, but it can also tell you something about his pass rushing.


Adding off this as well, the 3 cone drill is overall 1 of the most important IMo. The 40 time is just straight out speed. Unless a guy hits 4.2 or 6.0 I really don't see it as being a huge factor. I think too many people put too much stock in 40 times than they do 3 cone and shuttle which IMO are far more important in showing a players speed.


Couldn't agree more.

The ability to run fast in a straight line, unimpaired, in shorts and a T shirt is more or less pointless in player evaluation.

As long as the player is able to run a 'normal' time for his position, I don't see any point in using it as part of an evaluation at all.

The bench is also another useless stat. A big bench is as necessary as tits on a bull. I'd rather find out what a player squats or cleans.
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poorbytehshore


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO I think the two most important things to gauge in whether a college DE can become a great 34OLB are:

a.) ability to have fluid hips and get depth when dropping back into coverage. they don't have to be great at this but it's important to be able to do it as without it the player becomes a one trick pony and the QB knows what he is going to do each play, which can kill the defense.

b.) explosive speed in the first step is essential. as a DE, you come into immediate contact with the o-lineman so generating explosive power is critical. as a 34OLB, there will often be a bit of room to explode into before you contact the tackle. so whilst hands and dip are obviously important no matter what, i like a prospect to show explosive speed for me to feel comfortable about him in the 34.
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