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Raidin
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5711
Location: Dublin
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 Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| macklemore wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | macklemore wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | One thing on Sparano as a HC/OC. It's ALL about the QB. People need to start realizing this.
2008 - 11-5 with Chad Pennington
2009 and 2010 - 7-9 With Henne
2011 - Fired at 4-9 when the team was coming on with Moore.
2012 - Jets OC with Sanchez at QB.
It's easy to say he was a bad HC/OC, but reality is without a good QB the results are not going to be there.
Miami was winning with Defense and a gimmick wildcat for a good stretch. The Jets were just terrible top to bottom on offense. Bad QB, bad RBs, Bad WRs.
People SERIOUSLY underestimate how important a QB is to making a coach look good. |
but this logic doesn't apply when you argue against Hue Jackson, amirite? |
What are you talking about? I've alway agreed Hue is a fine coach. Just EXTREMELY overrated here because the team was .500 for the first time in a decade. |
I'm talking about Jason Campbell being a below average QB, I'm talking about how you consistently point towards Hue faltering in the second half of the season, after his below average QB was put on IR.
Surely can't blame him for the second half of the season, how are the results supposed to be there without the QB? Carson Palmer was a retired QB when we traded for him.. You can't expect a QB to come in mid-season and perform.
And by the way, I wasn't too fond of Hue Jackson.. I remember calling him out in a few game day threads. He just wasn't a good manager, but as a rookie HC that shouldn't be too concerning. When he was fired I understood why, I wasn't even mad. I'm just not thrilled with his replacement at all. |
Problem is Hue Jackson did.
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| raidr4life wrote: | | Imagine if EricAllen21 posted better. Just imagine. |
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macklemore
Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Posts: 1424
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| Raidin wrote: | | macklemore wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | macklemore wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | One thing on Sparano as a HC/OC. It's ALL about the QB. People need to start realizing this.
2008 - 11-5 with Chad Pennington
2009 and 2010 - 7-9 With Henne
2011 - Fired at 4-9 when the team was coming on with Moore.
2012 - Jets OC with Sanchez at QB.
It's easy to say he was a bad HC/OC, but reality is without a good QB the results are not going to be there.
Miami was winning with Defense and a gimmick wildcat for a good stretch. The Jets were just terrible top to bottom on offense. Bad QB, bad RBs, Bad WRs.
People SERIOUSLY underestimate how important a QB is to making a coach look good. |
but this logic doesn't apply when you argue against Hue Jackson, amirite? |
What are you talking about? I've alway agreed Hue is a fine coach. Just EXTREMELY overrated here because the team was .500 for the first time in a decade. |
I'm talking about Jason Campbell being a below average QB, I'm talking about how you consistently point towards Hue faltering in the second half of the season, after his below average QB was put on IR.
Surely can't blame him for the second half of the season, how are the results supposed to be there without the QB? Carson Palmer was a retired QB when we traded for him.. You can't expect a QB to come in mid-season and perform.
And by the way, I wasn't too fond of Hue Jackson.. I remember calling him out in a few game day threads. He just wasn't a good manager, but as a rookie HC that shouldn't be too concerning. When he was fired I understood why, I wasn't even mad. I'm just not thrilled with his replacement at all. |
Problem is Hue Jackson did. |
Yeah, that was a terrible trade.. Hue should have never been in a position to make it though.
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dawsonleery
Joined: 31 Oct 2012
Posts: 1081
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| Great hire. He was such a good oline coach he got a head job, that's pretty amazing. Allen did very well here. |
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justwinbaby81
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 4042
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| OakRaiders3828 wrote: | | justwinbaby81 wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | macklemore wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | One thing on Sparano as a HC/OC. It's ALL about the QB. People need to start realizing this.
2008 - 11-5 with Chad Pennington
2009 and 2010 - 7-9 With Henne
2011 - Fired at 4-9 when the team was coming on with Moore.
2012 - Jets OC with Sanchez at QB.
It's easy to say he was a bad HC/OC, but reality is without a good QB the results are not going to be there.
Miami was winning with Defense and a gimmick wildcat for a good stretch. The Jets were just terrible top to bottom on offense. Bad QB, bad RBs, Bad WRs.
People SERIOUSLY underestimate how important a QB is to making a coach look good. |
but this logic doesn't apply when you argue against Hue Jackson, amirite? |
What are you talking about? I've alway agreed Hue is a fine coach. Just EXTREMELY overrated here because the team was .500 for the first time in a decade. |
Here we go again...courtesy of big_PMS
I love how you think hiring an assistant HC-which takes away responsibilities from Allen-is a testament to DA. |
Word, DA does nothing right |
Any thread we reply in:
You: All hail DA!
Me: No
You: [Insert something a school girl would say] |
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DOCLEW 28
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 11203
Location: East Oakland
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:39 am Post subject: |
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This is what you get when your young HC has the time to think and put together a staff instead of like last year when things were so rushed.
I also like the fact that he made Sporano the assistant HC. This way he cannot just up and leave because another opportunity presents itself. It will have to be a HC opening. And I don't see Sporano getting that opportunity any time soon. So he will be our OL coach for a while.
And even though he failed as an OC, we don't have to worry so much about that because he will be functioning under our current OC's schemes. Sporano will be assisting the OL in making Olsen's schemes work.
Good hire, kid.
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BlackPrestige92
Joined: 08 Nov 2011
Posts: 9330
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Love it. He has no association word "zone" does he? DMC needs to look good those 6 games he isn't injured.....
Blue collar guy.
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“If Phil Jackson came back, still no coaching me, I’m uncoachable, I’m unsociable."
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DOCLEW 28
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 11203
Location: East Oakland
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | This has to be false. If I'm to understand here, Allen has no connections and is in over his head. Acquiring a talent like Sparano isn't feasible for HC who is so bad and has no connections.
Side note:
Notice none of the DA is the worst ever crown are posting in here?
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Yup. Funny that way isn't it?
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DOCLEW 28
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 11203
Location: East Oakland
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| macklemore wrote: | | good hire, Idk why everyone is so geeked over an o-line coach. |
Uh, then why are you saying good hire? You wouldn't geeked for a OL coach (or any good coach for that matter) with this much experience? Aren't you in the DA is in over his head and horrible camp? Then the hire of an excellent, well respected and experience OL coach is definitely something to be geeked over.
Good to see you going along with the crowd tho. Baaaaaa. LOL!!!
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91jmay
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 29948
Location: Wonderland
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| This thread just reinforces why I rarely post in the Raider subsection anymore. A few quality posters have to wade past some absolute clowns. Not sure why Doc and BP still continue to try and educate some of these guys. Lost causes I am afraid. |
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Dreadymatt
Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 1039
Location: Saturn
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| great move, really think offensive could progress again now |
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justwinbaby81
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 4042
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| DOCLEW 28 wrote: | | macklemore wrote: | | good hire, Idk why everyone is so geeked over an o-line coach. |
Uh, then why are you saying good hire? You wouldn't geeked for a OL coach (or any good coach for that matter) with this much experience? Aren't you in the DA is in over his head and horrible camp? Then the hire of an excellent, well respected and experience OL coach is definitely something to be geeked over.
Good to see you going along with the crowd tho. Baaaaaa. LOL!!! |
Its a good hire. But lets not get carried away here. This guy was let go by two teams in the last two years.
And we will wait to kiss DA's feet until hiring assistants (which McKenzie undoubtedly had more say in this year to avoid Knapp types) translate to wins. He hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt based off of his first year, despite how many of you give him that.
But like Olson, this was another good hire. Its a good start to the offseason. |
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big_palooka
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 25674
Location: ATL
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| justwinbaby81 wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | macklemore wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | One thing on Sparano as a HC/OC. It's ALL about the QB. People need to start realizing this.
2008 - 11-5 with Chad Pennington
2009 and 2010 - 7-9 With Henne
2011 - Fired at 4-9 when the team was coming on with Moore.
2012 - Jets OC with Sanchez at QB.
It's easy to say he was a bad HC/OC, but reality is without a good QB the results are not going to be there.
Miami was winning with Defense and a gimmick wildcat for a good stretch. The Jets were just terrible top to bottom on offense. Bad QB, bad RBs, Bad WRs.
People SERIOUSLY underestimate how important a QB is to making a coach look good. |
but this logic doesn't apply when you argue against Hue Jackson, amirite? |
What are you talking about? I've alway agreed Hue is a fine coach. Just EXTREMELY overrated here because the team was .500 for the first time in a decade. |
Here we go again...courtesy of big_PMS
I love how you think hiring an assistant HC-which takes away responsibilities from Allen-is a testament to DA. |
What are you even talking about?
I don't think hiring a quality assistant coach does anything more than help the staff and players.
As for a Allen, I'm hardly in his corner. Just patient enough to see him through. I firmly believe a coach should get 3 to 4 years to instal his culture, foster his talent and build consistency. Unless the team outright quits on him, which doesn't seem to be the case.
In the NFL, teams are quick to fire a coach and IMO, it's not always the right move.
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big_palooka
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 25674
Location: ATL
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| macklemore wrote: |
I'm talking about Jason Campbell being a below average QB, I'm talking about how you consistently point towards Hue faltering in the second half of the season, after his below average QB was put on IR. |
Surely can't blame him for the second half of the season, how are the results supposed to be there without the QB? Carson Palmer was a retired QB when we traded for him.. You can't expect a QB to come in mid-season and perform.
And by the way, I wasn't too fond of Hue Jackson.. I remember calling him out in a few game day threads. He just wasn't a good manager, but as a rookie HC that shouldn't be too concerning. When he was fired I understood why, I wasn't even mad. I'm just not thrilled with his replacement at all.[/quote]
I agree, but I think the Raiders had a better chance in that 1-4 stretch with Palmer than a McFaddenless Campbell team.
Regardless, the Raiders had average QB play and got average results. When relating to Sparano, he had terrible QBs.
As for DA as Hue's replacement, I'm patiently waiting to see it come together. I see him as a better leader than Jackson, in a worse situation with talent. The Knapp hire was a mistake, he's been given that mulligan. Now is the time to see some improvement.
In relation to Hue, everyone wants to point to the 8-8 seasons. Totally different circumstances. There as a 13-3 team in the division this season. The schedule was much more difficult playing a majority of games in the Eastern Time Zone. I don't think Jackson would have been better off, but some will believe the Raiders were a playoff team with him as the coach in 2012, which I just don't see.
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DOCLEW 28
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 11203
Location: East Oakland
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| 91jmay wrote: | | This thread just reinforces why I rarely post in the Raider subsection anymore. A few quality posters have to wade past some absolute clowns. Not sure why Doc and BP still continue to try and educate some of these guys. Lost causes I am afraid. |
Hahahahaha!!! I am a glutton for punishment.
And I always loved the clowns at the circus when I was a kid.
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DOCLEW 28
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 11203
Location: East Oakland
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| justwinbaby81 wrote: | | DOCLEW 28 wrote: | | macklemore wrote: | | good hire, Idk why everyone is so geeked over an o-line coach. |
Uh, then why are you saying good hire? You wouldn't geeked for a OL coach (or any good coach for that matter) with this much experience? Aren't you in the DA is in over his head and horrible camp? Then the hire of an excellent, well respected and experience OL coach is definitely something to be geeked over.
Good to see you going along with the crowd tho. Baaaaaa. LOL!!! |
Its a good hire. But lets not get carried away here. This guy was let go by two teams in the last two years.
And we will wait to kiss DA's feet until hiring assistants (which McKenzie undoubtedly had more say in this year to avoid Knapp types) translate to wins. He hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt based off of his first year, despite how many of you give him that.
But like Olson, this was another good hire. Its a good start to the offseason. |
And you know McKenzie had more say exactly how? 
These hirings had time on their sides. When DA was first hired most staffs were already in place. And whether the hires translate into wins depend solely on the talent that is assembled. The kid has shown better judgement in his 2nd go around. So I will give him credit for that. He will have to earn credit for what the team does on the field when it gets to that. But you cannot deny that he has done a much better job of assembling an offensive staff (on paper) than he did last year.
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