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matt79511
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2194
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 Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Football Mensa wrote: | | matt79511 wrote: | | Football Mensa wrote: | | Sobering thought Playmaker....on average only 10 of the 32 first rounders drafted each year start on opening day. We need to defy the odds and have at least our first two picks start. |
No, that's not what that means. It means that, no matter how well you draft, rookies can only have so much impact on their team's season, and drafting on the basis of "immediate impact" is silly fan fiction that no team actually employs. |
LOL .That's exactly what it means. It takes defying the odds to draft 2 immediate impact rookies. 
| Quote: | | rookies can only have so much impact on their team's season |
The correct choices can mean playoffs or sitting at home....
| Quote: | | drafting on the basis of "immediate impact" is silly fan fiction |
So you mean drafting Ware wasn't done wiith immediate impact in mind ? Smith ? Mo ? LOL....where do you get this stuff ? |
A rookie immediately can immediately start for any of a billion things. Perhaps the team got a true steal. Maybe they had absolutely no one capable on the roster. I don't know. But very few players are starting-caliber out of the gate, and immediately starting is a questionable indicator of future success (see: Nagy, Bill). Teams draft on the basis of long-term future of the franchise. This can illicit picking a player that will immediately start but it's not the only thing in mind like it is with fans.
Mo's a great example, actually. We had Brandon Carr, Mike Jenkins (coming off a solid year), and Orlando Scandrick (signed through 2016). Yes Mo immediately started over Jenkins and Scandrick, but he was he that much better than 2011 Jenkins? Not much, if at all. That decision was made with the assumption that he'd develop into an All-Pro: "We need better corners NOW" was an afterthought. If it were the only determining factor like it is with fans, then they'd have picked Decastro or Barron or Brockers or something.
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Football Mensa
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 621
Location: Texas via Louisiana and I love being Cajun...
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| matt79511 wrote: | | Football Mensa wrote: | | matt79511 wrote: | | Football Mensa wrote: | | Sobering thought Playmaker....on average only 10 of the 32 first rounders drafted each year start on opening day. We need to defy the odds and have at least our first two picks start. |
No, that's not what that means. It means that, no matter how well you draft, rookies can only have so much impact on their team's season, and drafting on the basis of "immediate impact" is silly fan fiction that no team actually employs. |
LOL .That's exactly what it means. It takes defying the odds to draft 2 immediate impact rookies.
| Quote: | | rookies can only have so much impact on their team's season |
The correct choices can mean playoffs or sitting at home....
| Quote: | | drafting on the basis of "immediate impact" is silly fan fiction |
So you mean drafting Ware wasn't done wiith immediate impact in mind ? Smith ? Mo ? LOL....where do you get this stuff ? |
A rookie immediately can immediately start for any of a billion things. Perhaps the team got a true steal. Maybe they had absolutely no one capable on the roster. I don't know. But very few players are starting-caliber out of the gate, and immediately starting is a questionable indicator of future success (see: Nagy, Bill). Teams draft on the basis of long-term future of the franchise. This can illicit picking a player that will immediately start but it's not the only thing in mind like it is with fans.
Mo's a great example, actually. We had Brandon Carr, Mike Jenkins (coming off a solid year), and Orlando Scandrick (signed through 2016). Yes Mo immediately started over Jenkins and Scandrick, but he was he that much better than 2011 Jenkins? Not much, if at all. That decision was made with the assumption that he'd develop into an All-Pro: "We need better corners NOW" was an afterthought. If it were the only determining factor like it is with fans, then they'd have picked Decastro or Barron or Brockers or something. |
Inaccurate. We did need better corners now. 2011 sucked out loud. Or maybe you forgot. Top 10 picks are especially looked upon at providing immediate impact.
Finding two immediate starters again defies the odds in a single draft. Which was my point. So exactly what are you trying to refute or defend ?
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flyingmonkey30
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
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matt79511
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2194
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Football Mensa wrote: | | matt79511 wrote: | | Football Mensa wrote: | | matt79511 wrote: | | Football Mensa wrote: | | Sobering thought Playmaker....on average only 10 of the 32 first rounders drafted each year start on opening day. We need to defy the odds and have at least our first two picks start. |
No, that's not what that means. It means that, no matter how well you draft, rookies can only have so much impact on their team's season, and drafting on the basis of "immediate impact" is silly fan fiction that no team actually employs. |
LOL .That's exactly what it means. It takes defying the odds to draft 2 immediate impact rookies.
| Quote: | | rookies can only have so much impact on their team's season |
The correct choices can mean playoffs or sitting at home....
| Quote: | | drafting on the basis of "immediate impact" is silly fan fiction |
So you mean drafting Ware wasn't done wiith immediate impact in mind ? Smith ? Mo ? LOL....where do you get this stuff ? |
A rookie immediately can immediately start for any of a billion things. Perhaps the team got a true steal. Maybe they had absolutely no one capable on the roster. I don't know. But very few players are starting-caliber out of the gate, and immediately starting is a questionable indicator of future success (see: Nagy, Bill). Teams draft on the basis of long-term future of the franchise. This can illicit picking a player that will immediately start but it's not the only thing in mind like it is with fans.
Mo's a great example, actually. We had Brandon Carr, Mike Jenkins (coming off a solid year), and Orlando Scandrick (signed through 2016). Yes Mo immediately started over Jenkins and Scandrick, but he was he that much better than 2011 Jenkins? Not much, if at all. That decision was made with the assumption that he'd develop into an All-Pro: "We need better corners NOW" was an afterthought. If it were the only determining factor like it is with fans, then they'd have picked Decastro or Barron or Brockers or something. |
Inaccurate. We did need better corners now. 2011 sucked out loud. Or maybe you forgot. Top 10 picks are especially looked upon at providing immediate impact.
Finding two immediate starters again defies the odds in a single draft. Which was my point. So exactly what are you trying to refute or defend ? |
Newman sucked in 2011. Jenkins played quite well that year, actually, he was just hurt for a lot of it. This board thought very highly of him at the time, and the deal for Claiborne was a legitimate shock.
Of course it defies the odds to get two immediate starters. But immediate impact shouldn't be the driving force in draft decisions nor should it be the primary means of evaluating a draft class.
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Football Mensa
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 621
Location: Texas via Louisiana and I love being Cajun...
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="matt79511"] | Football Mensa wrote: | | matt79511 wrote: | | Football Mensa wrote: | | matt79511 wrote: | | Football Mensa wrote: | | Sobering thought Playmaker....on average only 10 of the 32 first rounders drafted each year start on opening day. We need to defy the odds and have at least our first two picks start. |
No, that's not what that means. It means that, no matter how well you draft, rookies can only have so much impact on their team's season, and drafting on the basis of "immediate impact" is silly fan fiction that no team actually employs. |
LOL .That's exactly what it means. It takes defying the odds to draft 2 immediate impact rookies.
| Quote: | | rookies can only have so much impact on their team's season |
The correct choices can mean playoffs or sitting at home....
| Quote: | | drafting on the basis of "immediate impact" is silly fan fiction |
So you mean drafting Ware wasn't done wiith immediate impact in mind ? Smith ? Mo ? LOL....where do you get this stuff ? |
A rookie immediately can immediately start for any of a billion things. Perhaps the team got a true steal. Maybe they had absolutely no one capable on the roster. I don't know. But very few players are starting-caliber out of the gate, and immediately starting is a questionable indicator of future success (see: Nagy, Bill). Teams draft on the basis of long-term future of the franchise. This can illicit picking a player that will immediately start but it's not the only thing in mind like it is with fans.
Mo's a great example, actually. We had Brandon Carr, Mike Jenkins (coming off a solid year), and Orlando Scandrick (signed through 2016). Yes Mo immediately started over Jenkins and Scandrick, but he was he that much better than 2011 Jenkins? Not much, if at all. That decision was made with the assumption that he'd develop into an All-Pro: "We need better corners NOW" was an afterthought. If it were the only determining factor like it is with fans, then they'd have picked Decastro or Barron or Brockers or something. |
Inaccurate. We did need better corners now. 2011 sucked out loud. Or maybe you forgot. Top 10 picks are especially looked upon at providing immediate impact.
Finding two immediate starters again defies the odds in a single draft. Which was my point. So exactly what are you trying to refute or defend ? |
Newman sucked in 2011. Jenkins played quite well that year, actually, he was just hurt for a lot of it. This board thought very highly of him at the time, and the deal for Claiborne was a legitimate shock.
Of course it defies the odds to get two immediate starters. But immediate impact shouldn't be the driving force in draft decisions nor should it be the primary means of evaluating a draft class.[/quote]
When you have an aging qb and trying to win now I beg to differ.
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Football Mensa
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 621
Location: Texas via Louisiana and I love being Cajun...
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| flyingmonkey30 wrote: | | You have to look at it both ways. Yeah, you look for your top picks to come in and contribute immediately. But at the same time, you need to take the top guy on your board, even if he won't make an impact for a few seasons. Aaron Rodgers comes to mind |
Qb's are the exception to the rule because of the position.
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SHSTE92
Joined: 08 Jan 2006
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WizardHawk
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6948
Location: Hawkeye State
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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My account status says he's wrong.
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Nextyearfordaboyz
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Who knows. I've only seen him play a handful of times, but he has been projected quite high for a man who isn't considered a demon of a pass rusher.
I could see him sliding to the 8-12 range, certainly. 18 seems way too low, though.
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canadaluvsdalla
Joined: 19 Jan 2011
Posts: 2992
Location: I state my opinion. You Listen. I won't change my stance.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Nextyearfordaboyz wrote: |
Who knows. I've only seen him play a handful of times, but he has been projected quite high for a man who isn't considered a demon of a pass rusher.
I could see him sliding to the 8-12 range, certainly. 18 seems way too low, though. |
When Star Lou. is on his game. It gets messy for the opposing offense. The thing is we just don't see that kind of domination constantly which is my drawback on him. I guess some could call it a motor issue.
But I'd wouldnt be dissapointed if we got him.
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Texas_OutLaw7
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 19348
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of '12
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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2013 Dallas Cowboys Roster
Offense
QB: Tony Romo | Kyle Orton | Nick Stephens
RB: Demarco Murray | Lance Dunbar | Phillip Tanner
FB: Lawrence Vickers | Caleb McSurdy
WR: Dez Bryant | Dwayne Harris | Cole Beasley | Jared Green | Carlton Mitchell
WR: Miles Austin | Danny Coale | Donavon Kemp | Tim Benford | Anthony Armstrong
TE: Jason Witten | James Hanna | Andre Smith | Colin Cochart
LT: Tyron Smith | Darrion Weems
LG: Nate Livings | Ray Dominguez | David Arkin
C: Kevin Kowalski | Mackenzy Bernadeau | Ryan Cook
RG: Ron Leary | Aderious Simmons
RT: Doug Free | Jeremy Parnell
Defense
DE: Demarcus Ware | Alex Albright | Ikponmwosa Igbinosun
DT: Jason Hatcher | Brian Price | Josh Brent | Marcus Spears
DT: Jay Ratliff | Sean Lissemore | Rob Callaway
DE: Tyrone Crawford | Monte Taylor | Ben Bass
OLB: Bruce Carter | Brashton Satele
MLB: Sean Lee | Caleb McSurdy | Cameron Sheffield | Dan Connor
OLB: Kyle Wilber
CB: Brandon Carr | Orlando Scandrick | Vince Agnew
SS: Gerald Sensabaugh | Barry Church
FS: Matt Johnson | Micah Pellerin
CB: Morris Claiborne | Sterling Moore | Brandon Underwood
Special Teams
K: Dan Bailey
P: Chris Jones
LS: Charley Hughlett
Players Not Under Contact
Offense
RB: Felix Jones
WR: Kevin Ogletree
TE: John Phillips
C: Phil Costa
OG: Derrick Dockery
Defense
DL: Victor Butler | Kenyon Coleman | Brian Schaefering | Anthony Spencer
LB: Orie Lemon | Brady Poppinga | Ernie Sims
CB: Michael Coe | Mike Jenkins
S: Eric Frampton | Danny McCray | Charlie Peprah
Special Teams
P: Brian Moorman
LS: L.P. Ladouceur
Red - RFA
Blue- ERFA
This is so far, what I have gathered. Don't get caught up as to what "position" they are in. Does anyone see anything that is amiss? A player who should be there but is not? Hopefully this will help people create their Mock Drafts.
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DKDALfan
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 1578
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Nextyearfordaboyz wrote: |
Who knows. I've only seen him play a handful of times, but he has been projected quite high for a man who isn't considered a demon of a pass rusher.
I could see him sliding to the 8-12 range, certainly. 18 seems way too low, though. |
Oh god it would be crazy if we could get him.
- But with that said, he is this years best player in my book and I think the longest he ever could slide would be to the Titans at #10. He is such an animal. Him, Ratliff and Ware could be the makes of one of the most disruptive lines in the NFL. I think that Hatcher would be able to play decent at LE (but would probably fit better at DT).
Letulelei could develop to be one of the best DT's in the NFL. If not the best. |
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Texas_OutLaw7
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 19348
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of '12
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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1. Sam Montgomery, DE, LSU
The Cowboys hired Monte Kiffin and are moving to a 4-3 defense. Anthony Spencer said he would love to play the defensive end position across from DeMarcus Ware, but that's probably not going to happen because Dallas doesn't have the cap space to re-sign him. If Spencer does leave, Dallas may use this selection to find a new complement for Ware. Sam Montgomery makes a ton of sense at this spot.
2. Eric Reid, S, LSU
I've learned that the Cowboys are interested in Eric Reid. He makes sense for them, as the safety position was a major weak point after Barry Church tore his Achilles' tendon. Church was extended prior to the injury, but he's owed less than $1 million next year, so that won't prevent Dallas from picking a safety early.
3. Alvin Bailey, G, Arkansas
The interior of Dallas' offensive line is an abomination. The front office found two downgrades at guard last offseason. Hopefully it finds better players this time around.
4. ????
http://walterfootball.com/draft2013_4.php
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In Redball I Trust!
The price of progress is trusting the process.
Heart. Leadership. Passion. Will. |
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canadaluvsdalla
Joined: 19 Jan 2011
Posts: 2992
Location: I state my opinion. You Listen. I won't change my stance.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: | 1. Sam Montgomery, DE, LSU
The Cowboys hired Monte Kiffin and are moving to a 4-3 defense. Anthony Spencer said he would love to play the defensive end position across from DeMarcus Ware, but that's probably not going to happen because Dallas doesn't have the cap space to re-sign him. If Spencer does leave, Dallas may use this selection to find a new complement for Ware. Sam Montgomery makes a ton of sense at this spot.
2. Eric Reid, S, LSU
I've learned that the Cowboys are interested in Eric Reid. He makes sense for them, as the safety position was a major weak point after Barry Church tore his Achilles' tendon. Church was extended prior to the injury, but he's owed less than $1 million next year, so that won't prevent Dallas from picking a safety early.
3. Alvin Bailey, G, Arkansas
The interior of Dallas' offensive line is an abomination. The front office found two downgrades at guard last offseason. Hopefully it finds better players this time around.
4. ????
http://walterfootball.com/draft2013_4.php |
Wait. Where is this source that said the cowboys are interested in Eric Reid? I cant find it anywhere.
and I would cry with pain with the selection of Sam Mot. prob the one guy in the draft I dont want at all.
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| Dez Bryant on 2000 Yard Season wrote: | | It's only going to get better, to be honest. I still have a lot to give. I feel like nobody's seen anything. Nothing. |
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Desperado82
Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 18193
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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I take walterfootball with a grain of salt...
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