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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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Location: Parkville, MD
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 Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:51 am Post subject: |
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One guy thats really growing on me is DJ Swearinger, Safety, South Carolina. While I don't think his skillset necessarily is a great fit for a center fielding type FS, I really like his tackling ability. He hits like a truck, but he isn't going for kill shots -- he wraps up at the same time. His coverage doesn't look elite, but I think it looks good enough to play some FS.
From what I've seen so far, I would consider him at the end of round 2 because I don't think he falls to the end of 3.
Just "plays like a Raven" in my eyes.
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alfalcone
Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Brother Jimmy's
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| diamondbull424 wrote: | | alfalcone wrote: | | aussie_raven77 wrote: | | Just a question on Te'o for you guys, lets say he slips all the way down to us how would we all feel about drafting him? I mean he wasn't the most elite athlete which we really need in coverage, despite him making the second most picks in the country. He's been productive but his draft stock has been massively boosted by his intangibles and this story seems to have destroyed a lot of them, is he worth taking? |
Best case scenario Te'o's an idiot, worst case scenario he faked and exploited a girlfriends death for Heisman votes, neither of which are qualities I want on a player on the Ravens. I think he will be great in run support, but struggle some in coverage, a Brandon Spikes type so to speak.
Personally the only hypothesis on Te'o that makes any sense to me, and or could slightly restore Te'o's reputation is that is he is gay and was raised in an environment, Mormonism, and Notre Dame wherein it is quite difficult to be openly gay, and was thus ashamed, and used the girlfriend, and her ensuing death, who he created along with Tuiasosopo as an excuse to avoid the advances of the Notre Dame coeds, (though in my experience they aren't the most attractive bunch). There's no logical reason why the Big Man On Campus would need to use the internet to meet a girl, much less never skype with her and secondly if the girlfriend were just created for Heisman hype, it would have made much more sense for her to die in October / November. |
First off, let's not bring sexual orientation into this discussion.
Secondly, this is where I disagree with the masses. Suddenly Te'O is now open to criticism that most didn't have for him before. His coverage wasn't bad- it's above average for an ILB. His lateral agility could be improved if he played a little smaller, but his instincts are there to make up for that. But if Te'O falls to us in the first (I was never for trading up for him in the first place) I'm not going to shy away from taking him BECAUSE of these issues. He'll be treated the same way we do with most rookies... and we all saw what the motivation of 'falling from grace' can do to a player in the form of Vontaze Burfict.
My thoughts on the situation are that a) Te'O was scammed and fell for it. b) He found out about the scam later on, but was too embarrassed by it because the media focus was now on it. c) He decided to go about continuing the charade because of athlete pride and not admitting to being a 'weak man'. Football is well known for its pursuit of being overly 'manly'. We've seen many cases where athletes have been robbed and not said anything about it (until much later) because of pride.. and not wanting to sound like a... female dog to their peers and fans of the sport.
Te'O was under a microscope enlarged because of that girl's "death". He's also young- it isn't like this is him lacing up some good stuff before the combine.. this isn't him failing an idiot test. Te'O sure is the "big man on campus" but along with that comes an athlete insecurity that he can't trust 'normal' girls and that they only want him for his livelihood on the football field. It's easy to understand, especially considering his religious beliefs, him thinking that a relationship that is so closeted provides him some additional securities... that a girl suffering from cancer and potentially on her deathbed would be more likely to love him for 'him'... and therefore make him more trusting.
He was hooked, didn't admit it, and actually played it up because of pride. I call no big deal. All I know is this cat knows how to ball out on the football field. I won't trade up for him, but along with Arthur Brown, I call the top two ILB prospects in this class- 1a to 1b. If NFL evaluators drop, for all intents and purposes a clean, intelligent (he did go to Notre Dame... we're not talking Alabama), and instinctive player of his talents.. off or down their draftboard because of this scenario... then I laugh hard and pounce.
This dude made a decision and... with his team making it to the Championship game... that decision seems to have worked out. For all we know, had he decided to reveal this scandal beforehand, it causes an even bigger media distraction to the team... and cause players to lose their focus to drop a game. And I doubt Te'O would be involved in creating this imagination death/relationship because quite frankly.. it could serve no positive gain. His grandmother died, so how much more 'emotional' of a story would he need to put the media on his side for a Heisman run? And if not for the Heisman... why else? It just wouldn't make sense. So I'll completely ignore that possibility until it's given some sort of ACTUAL legitimacy.
If Te'O was #1 on my draftboard before this incident, I keep him at #1. This incident could happen to anybody. It's not something that one would think to be calculated in. And in terms of faking the emotions after the fact? Dude did lose his grandmother and he was emotionally abused from this incident. So I don't think it took much "acting/faking" when the cameras came on. The loss he felt was real... until it wasn't.
All of the above aside, I still tend to prefer Arthur Brown over Te'O... and I said that before I learned of this incident. I just think Brown has elite athleticism, elite toughness, and elite instincts. Whereas I feel like Te'O has only one sure thing from that list (instincts), one is questionably elite (toughness), and his athleticism is very good... but in an NFL so built on coverage... I can't place him on an elite platform. But he's a little stronger of a tackler than Brown IMO... and I think that makes the conversation very close. |
My bad on the orientation part, I thought it was only disallowed as an insult. I would disagree in that he clearly failed the idiot test, and I'd worry whether or not he has the mental toughness to take the level of crap that will be thrown at him in an NFL locker room, regardless of the truth. |
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diamondbull424
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 10016
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| alfalcone wrote: |
My bad on the orientation part, I thought it was only disallowed as an insult. I would disagree in that he clearly failed the idiot test, and I'd worry whether or not he has the mental toughness to take the level of crap that will be thrown at him in an NFL locker room, regardless of the truth. |
Yeah I got that it was clearly just used as a reference point and not as an insult, but it's usually best to steer clear of that as well as race and politics simply because while your comment was on topic... the next post quoting yours might be the one that goes left. So I just was mentioning to cut those talks before anything worse began.
In terms of Te'O I honestly don't see how this affects his ability to jell within a locker room, especially not a locker room with a strong coaching staff and support of players as ours. Sure, he's going to be treated like a rookie... but that was always going to be true no matter if he were a freshman playing in high school, a freshman playing in college... that treatment wasn't going to change no matter the level. He's a rookie and will be treated like one. Sure this story might make one question Te'O in the gullible department, but this story doesn't affect his on-the-field instincts/ability... and nor do I believe this effects his long term leadership. In the short term, sure, you'll have some question him and think if he might be a 'poser', but come draft time and he's selected by a team, I think he'll release a statement along the lines of this:
| Mock Manti Te'O Public Relations Release wrote: | This past year at Notre Dame, I had been involved with what I believed to be a deep and love filled relationship. After my grandmother's passing, I was told that this girl had, not too long afterward, also passed away from cancer. It wasn't until some time in mid-November (just tossing out a time period) that I came to discover that to be a hoax. I was young, immature, and embarrassed. For that reason, I kept the news to myself and focused on football. I didn't even want to tell my parents because of the shame and embarrassment.
I let a few weeks past before I built up the courage to tell my parents the truth and quickly afterwards, I told my coach of the incident. It was then that the university launched its investigation and my coaches and I felt it was in the teams' best interest to keep this news quiet until the season was over.
During this time and a few weeks before, I deceived those in the media who questioned me on this incident... and therefore also deceived my fans. I am very sorry for deceiving you all because of my insecurity and immaturity. It is my hope that in time you will come to forgive me for my actions during that trying period of my life. I'd like to thank you all for the support you've given me and hope that I can continue to rely on your support in the future. Thank you! |
I don't think this incident makes him any less of a prospect, especially to a team with as much veteran leadership and coaching as the Ravens have. I'd doubt Te'O will be as susceptible for such a scam in the future and he's going to have plenty of time to just worry about playing at a high level. Our defense has enough leaders on it- even with Ray and Ed gone for me to believe that we can wait on Te'O to take that next step to being a leader for our team.
Heck, would a young Ray Lewis have been better equipped to handle this incident. I don't think he would have been. Lewis' incident helped him to become the mature player and leader he is today. Te'O was duped, it happens to the best of us. But as long as he looks strong on the field and stays healthy, I see no reason for not wanting this guy.
And like I said, I'm clearly ignoring the idea that Te'O was/is somehow involved in creating the hoax... it just doesn't sound like it makes sense to me.
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Blind arrogance sows the field of it's own destruction. - Commander Greil, Fire Emblem
Last edited by diamondbull424 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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coordinator0
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 5873
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| diamondbull424 wrote: | | All of the above aside, I still tend to prefer Arthur Brown over Te'O... and I said that before I learned of this incident. I just think Brown has elite athleticism, elite toughness, and elite instincts. Whereas I feel like Te'O has only one sure thing from that list (instincts), one is questionably elite (toughness), and his athleticism is very good... but in an NFL so built on coverage... I can't place him on an elite platform. But he's a little stronger of a tackler than Brown IMO... and I think that makes the conversation very close. |
I think Te'o has elite toughness (on the field) but that's kind of a vague term. He's durable, aggressive, and has the stamina to stay out on the field for the entire game so I'd give him that one. His instincts are unquestionably elite. The speed/athleticism category is where he starts to falter. I mean Te'o isn't slow but he's probably just above average in that category. That's still better than Lewis (who won't be around anyways) and McClain though. I'd say Te'o has better athleticism away from the LOS than Ellerbe but he's not as good attacking it as a pass-rusher or taking on blocks/stopping the run. I think they would compliment each other fairly well.
Arthur Brown would too. I would give him elite marks in those three categories but I still prefer Te'o. At the end of the day I really don't think Te'o would be available though and if the better pass-rushing prospects are off the board then I would probably be all-in for Brown. Minter is another intriguing option. Physically I think he's similar to Te'o but his instincts aren't quite as good. I'm not ruling out a 1st round push for Khaseem Greene either. I wouldn't be upset with the Ravens taking him at the end of the first round. People make a big deal about Ogletree being a former safety but the same goes for Greene and he actually looks and plays like a MLB while still retaining a lot of that athleticism. |
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drd23
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 5000
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Flaccomania wrote: | | If he got scammed, like db24 said, found out about it but in order to avoid distraction during the season, played along until it was over, then I look at him only slightly differently. I would see the logic, but I would have told the coaches sooner (assuming he found out before December 26th when he told them). They would help him keep it in confidence. |
Surely talking about it as often as he did would only add to the distraction/pressure the situation caused?
Wouldn't/Shouldn't he have said something along the lines of "I would rather talk about the football game" "Its too painful to talk about, can we talk about something else?" etc.
And as for when he knew, iirc from what has been reported about the ND investigation he knew in early Dec (like the 3rd or 6th or something like that) and he talked about his GF in an interview soon after that
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diamondbull424
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 10016
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| drd23 wrote: | | Flaccomania wrote: | | If he got scammed, like db24 said, found out about it but in order to avoid distraction during the season, played along until it was over, then I look at him only slightly differently. I would see the logic, but I would have told the coaches sooner (assuming he found out before December 26th when he told them). They would help him keep it in confidence. |
Surely talking about it as often as he did would only add to the distraction/pressure the situation caused?
Wouldn't/Shouldn't he have said something along the lines of "I would rather talk about the football game" "Its too painful to talk about, can we talk about something else?" etc.
And as for when he knew, iirc from what has been reported about the ND investigation he knew in early Dec (like the 3rd or 6th or something like that) and he talked about his GF in an interview soon after that |
Well in his most recent ESPN interview he claims that he became 'suspicious' during that time when Lenay Kakua, the dead girl, apparently called him and said that she was still alive and had apparently been in hiding from drug dealers (or something equally bizarre)... So then he told his dad finally and then soon after his coaches and the university. They now get involved and launch the investigation to get to the bottom of this. But Te'O says that he wasn't sure she wasn't a 'real' person until about 3-4 days ago (if I have the timeline right).
But that's only if you are in the camp that believes he's not making this stuff up... And I can't fathom anyone coming up with a story so insane- for no apparent gain... So I choose not to believe this story, until he's proven guilty/admits it. But until then, I'll just assume that this is simply a case of 'fool' me once, but didn't fool me twice.
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KiddKillah
Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 1911
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:00 am Post subject: |
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I hope we take De'Andre Hopkins if Anquan Boldin is cut due to a cap casualty. I'm getting so tired of people overlooking him. When you hear WR's in this draft, it's all Cordarrelle Patterson, Kennan Allen, Justin Hunter, Tavon Austin, Terrance Williams etc. But nobody wants to talk about Hopkins. I personally think he's going to be the next Torrey Smith  , plays just like him and has the same measurables.
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DreamKid
Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 598
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| KiddKillah wrote: | | I hope we take De'Andre Hopkins if Anquan Boldin is cut due to a cap casualty. I'm getting so tired of people overlooking him. When you hear WR's in this draft, it's all Cordarrelle Patterson, Kennan Allen, Justin Hunter, Tavon Austin, Terrance Williams etc. But nobody wants to talk about Hopkins. I personally think he's going to be the next Torrey Smith 8) , plays just like him and has the same measurables. |
I like him too, he has better hands than Torrey coming out but less speed. He adjusts well to the ball, and is decent after the catch. Could be a good slot guy, but I still want an all world guy opposite Torrey to really open things up.
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diamondbull424
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 10016
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| DreamKid wrote: | | KiddKillah wrote: | | I hope we take De'Andre Hopkins if Anquan Boldin is cut due to a cap casualty. I'm getting so tired of people overlooking him. When you hear WR's in this draft, it's all Cordarrelle Patterson, Kennan Allen, Justin Hunter, Tavon Austin, Terrance Williams etc. But nobody wants to talk about Hopkins. I personally think he's going to be the next Torrey Smith , plays just like him and has the same measurables. |
I like him too, he has better hands than Torrey coming out but less speed. He adjusts well to the ball, and is decent after the catch. Could be a good slot guy, but I still want an all world guy opposite Torrey to really open things up. |
Exactly. If we're going to go after a guy, it should be a guy with elite potential. And that's why Hopkins isn't necessarily being talked about- at least not by me.
If anything, if we let go of Boldin for some reason (...we should be looking to extend him), then it makes a lot of sense for us to gamble on Da'Rick Rogers in the 2nd round. He's a big, strong, athletic receiver that like Boldin can really throw his body around. He's a less experienced, more athletic Boldin. With experience and maturity... I think he has elite WR potential.
That said, I want a great pass blocking LT over a WR. We've seen it throughout the postseason... and throughout Flacco's career. He has time to throw, he makes plays. We're guaranteed to have at least 3 of these OL back next season. So there should still be some strong consistency there. KO has looked all kinds of elite at LG- dude nullified Wilfork inside and has the athleticism and length to deal with speed inside.
I'm thinking though that a good LT could be there in the 2nd with how much depth their is in this class. I like Oday Aboushi, but he could fall because of measurables. I don't see elite athleticism with him. He doesn't have great height and only has average arm length. Lane Johnson is a guy I also like, not as stout as I'd like at this point, but has room on his frame. So someone should be available for great value on day 2... and if the board doesn't fall the way we want, we can always trade up with some of our picks.
1st round- I like BPA though... which is likely to be one of these ten players IMO: Arthur Brown, Matt Elam, Sam Montgomery (please let this happen), Kevin Minter, Margus Hunt, Ezekiel Ansah (not my favorite), Dion Jordan, Eric Fisher, Sheldon Richardson, or Jarvis Jones.
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Blind arrogance sows the field of it's own destruction. - Commander Greil, Fire Emblem |
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sp6488
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 6229
Location: MD
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| diamondbull424 wrote: | | DreamKid wrote: | | KiddKillah wrote: | | I hope we take De'Andre Hopkins if Anquan Boldin is cut due to a cap casualty. I'm getting so tired of people overlooking him. When you hear WR's in this draft, it's all Cordarrelle Patterson, Kennan Allen, Justin Hunter, Tavon Austin, Terrance Williams etc. But nobody wants to talk about Hopkins. I personally think he's going to be the next Torrey Smith , plays just like him and has the same measurables. |
I like him too, he has better hands than Torrey coming out but less speed. He adjusts well to the ball, and is decent after the catch. Could be a good slot guy, but I still want an all world guy opposite Torrey to really open things up. |
Exactly. If we're going to go after a guy, it should be a guy with elite potential. And that's why Hopkins isn't necessarily being talked about- at least not by me.
If anything, if we let go of Boldin for some reason (...we should be looking to extend him), then it makes a lot of sense for us to gamble on Da'Rick Rogers in the 2nd round. He's a big, strong, athletic receiver that like Boldin can really throw his body around. He's a less experienced, more athletic Boldin. With experience and maturity... I think he has elite WR potential.
That said, I want a great pass blocking LT over a WR. We've seen it throughout the postseason... and throughout Flacco's career. He has time to throw, he makes plays. We're guaranteed to have at least 3 of these OL back next season. So there should still be some strong consistency there. KO has looked all kinds of elite at LG- dude nullified Wilfork inside and has the athleticism and length to deal with speed inside.
I'm thinking though that a good LT could be there in the 2nd with how much depth their is in this class. I like Oday Aboushi, but he could fall because of measurables. I don't see elite athleticism with him. He doesn't have great height and only has average arm length. Lane Johnson is a guy I also like, not as stout as I'd like at this point, but has room on his frame. So someone should be available for great value on day 2... and if the board doesn't fall the way we want, we can always trade up with some of our picks.
1st round- I like BPA though... which is likely to be one of these ten players IMO: Arthur Brown, Matt Elam, Sam Montgomery (please let this happen), Kevin Minter, Margus Hunt, Ezekiel Ansah (not my favorite), Dion Jordan, Eric Fisher, Sheldon Richardson, or Jarvis Jones. |
Even if we bring in a big time WR prospect, I want Bolding to be extended as well. Just makes too much sense. Look how big he's come up in the playoffs now that we allow him to play to his strengths.
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KiddKillah
Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 1911
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Senior Bowl practice just came on NFL Network for anyone interested.
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KiddKillah
Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 1911
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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WOW  Datone Jones is really embarrassing the competition out there. He dominated Eric Fisher -- the best tackle by far out there.
Others that have caught my eye --
WR Markus Wheaton
DT Kawaan Short
CB Jordan Poyer
OL David Quessenberry
OL Brian Winters
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RAY RICE
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KiddKillah
Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 1911
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| diamondbull424 wrote: | | DreamKid wrote: | | KiddKillah wrote: | | I hope we take De'Andre Hopkins if Anquan Boldin is cut due to a cap casualty. I'm getting so tired of people overlooking him. When you hear WR's in this draft, it's all Cordarrelle Patterson, Kennan Allen, Justin Hunter, Tavon Austin, Terrance Williams etc. But nobody wants to talk about Hopkins. I personally think he's going to be the next Torrey Smith , plays just like him and has the same measurables. |
I like him too, he has better hands than Torrey coming out but less speed. He adjusts well to the ball, and is decent after the catch. Could be a good slot guy, but I still want an all world guy opposite Torrey to really open things up. |
Exactly. If we're going to go after a guy, it should be a guy with elite potential. And that's why Hopkins isn't necessarily being talked about- at least not by me.
If anything, if we let go of Boldin for some reason (...we should be looking to extend him), then it makes a lot of sense for us to gamble on Da'Rick Rogers in the 2nd round. He's a big, strong, athletic receiver that like Boldin can really throw his body around. He's a less experienced, more athletic Boldin. With experience and maturity... I think he has elite WR potential.
That said, I want a great pass blocking LT over a WR. We've seen it throughout the postseason... and throughout Flacco's career. He has time to throw, he makes plays. We're guaranteed to have at least 3 of these OL back next season. So there should still be some strong consistency there. KO has looked all kinds of elite at LG- dude nullified Wilfork inside and has the athleticism and length to deal with speed inside.
I'm thinking though that a good LT could be there in the 2nd with how much depth their is in this class. I like Oday Aboushi, but he could fall because of measurables. I don't see elite athleticism with him. He doesn't have great height and only has average arm length. Lane Johnson is a guy I also like, not as stout as I'd like at this point, but has room on his frame. So someone should be available for great value on day 2... and if the board doesn't fall the way we want, we can always trade up with some of our picks.
1st round- I like BPA though... which is likely to be one of these ten players IMO: Arthur Brown, Matt Elam, Sam Montgomery (please let this happen), Kevin Minter, Margus Hunt, Ezekiel Ansah (not my favorite), Dion Jordan, Eric Fisher, Sheldon Richardson, or Jarvis Jones. |
I'm down DB. I'm watching Lane Johnson practice and he's an absolute LT. He's definitely a guy I would take at the end of the first round. The only knock I have on him is how can he handle the bull rush with his frame, but his technique and feet are there. Mayock says he's going to run 4.8.............. 
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RavensTillIDie
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 10837
Location: ----------------- Props to Jamison. on the dope signature!!!!!!!!!!
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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I want Jesse Williams.
/end thread
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 | EliteTexan80 wrote: | | If this site represents "average" then yes. There are times where I forgo saying things because I'm afraid some of you will make me dumber. |
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KiddKillah
Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 1911
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| RavensTillIDie wrote: | I want Jesse Williams.
/end thread |
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RAY RICE
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