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My mock off-season
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: My mock off-season Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
I think Patterson is the better route runner and to me the more explosive guy. He screams Julio Jones to me. Good size, great speed, great hands, the guy is a play maker at all levels and can return kicks and punts for us. I like Hunter, but feel Patterson is much better, JMO


Fair enough, I see some of that too. Comes down to which you like or dislike between Julio Jones lite and AJ Green lite. Can't really miss with either, actually.

As promised - a more detailed dive into your mock offseason:

amazingandre wrote:
Sign these guys

Alan Ball - If we are going to re-sign ANY of the corners, I would re-sign him. Not only is he better at slot than McCain, but he is better as a special teamer. Brandon Harris has not shown enough to trust him in the slot full time, but he did show promise, so hopefully he can over come Ball at some point next season. Sign Ball to a 1 or 2 year deal for a low amount.

Eh, I'm willing to pass. Alan Ball had a decent year when pressed into action - didn't screw the pooch as he did in the preseason, but never stood out, outside of ST. Given the state of our ST, I wouldn't mind to see him retained, just for what he brings to that part of the team.

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Bradie James - This one I struggle with, not because he is good, but because he could be good depth, I just don't think he would want to be here as a back up/special teams player. But Maybe we keep him anyway, one more season.

Eh, I pass on him. Even as depth. I'd much rather keep Tim Dobbins, who was just as good on defense, and can top out as a ST ace.

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Connor Barwin - ONLY re-sign if it is cheap. He really took a step back and provided little as a pass rusher, but he really sealed the edge vs the run, very little runs came from the outside. Plus if he walks, we still need to fill the hole left at OLB, keeping him would be the cheapest (hopefully) and simplest. If he commands too much, prepare to draft a guy.

If by "cheap" you mean "close to NFL minimum" then, yes. I'm honestly wanting to give Whitney Mercilius the snaps at the spot on a FT basis. IF Barwin were to gamble on himself and take a cheap one year deal with the hopes of getting back to 2011 form, then go for it. Honestly, if Mario Williams can get a $100MM deal after a five game/five sack season in 2011, I don't see Barwin as too far from a mega deal elsewhere. The Jets will probably overpay for the guy...which is fine, comp picks are nice.

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Glover Quin - He might actually be our first priority this off-season. He is a great run stuffing safety and very good in coverage vs TEs and Rbs, losing him only hurts us down the road against the Patriots. Don't over pay for a non play making safety, but know he is important to our defense. We just need to add a 3rd safety to prevent those deep passes against us.

Agreed, keeping Quin needs to be job #1 for Rick Smith. Vastly underrated S, arguably the only defender who played a full 16 games for us. Even in the month we shall never speak of, guy was a playmaker.

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Justin Forsett - Again, this depends on price, but I would try to retain him. Knowing I want to get rid of Tate, but knowing any rookie I bring in may take time to develop. Make him our number 2 for 1 or 2 seasons. He has the ability to step in as our starter if Foster misses some games.

Depends on what you plan on doing with Tate, but a #3 RB should be had on the cheap. It also depends on what Jonathan Grimes has been able to do - I believe Grimes is still a Texan, correct? If he continues building on what we saw from him in the preseason as well as his stint with the Jets, hang onto him and continue molding him into a guy we can use.

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Ryan Harris - I would offer pretty much the minimum to him. He knows our system, is younger, fresher and up to date on our playbook compared to Rashard Butler. The goal is to get a younger tackle to compete with Derek Newton. We will have 2 average back ups between Harris, Newton and a rookie.

I'm not too high on this move - Harris isn't anything but a body at this stage, I believe a rookie along with Nick Mondeck should provide just as much at the spot. Cheaper, at the very least.

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Mister Alexander - He is an ERFA, offer him the minimum and he has to take it. Cheap for a guy who knows the system and is average hwen in the game.

Sure, why not.

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Andrew Gardner - He is a RFA and I doubt he gets an offer, but again, I think its time to upgrade the depth and that means letting go of the useless guys. But I have a feeling he is brought back, so I am saying to re-sign him, even though I would not.

As long as we bolster the TE spot and not find ourselves at a point to where Gardner is taking Garrett Graham's snaps, I'm OK.
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Let these guys walk

Rashard Butler - Isn't going to be a starter and we need to make plans to get a better RT while upgrading the depth all around.

Seems reasonable.

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Antione Caldwell - Same as Butler. The talent has surpassed him and the depth is already equally as good as he is.

Agreed.

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James Casey - Its not that I do not want him back, but I think he may get a solid offer from another team (Patriots or someone trying to become them). I think a true FB with a better wr and a better blocking TE would suffice. We could try to be more creative by shifting OD or Graham to fb to cause mis matches.

Ooooh, bold. I like. We've been hearing about Casey and how he's got the potential to be a mismatch, how he's got the best hands on the team - so far, his potential has only been seen in the New Orleans game in 2011, and the "best hands" surely didn't show up in the New England game, to say the least. If he can be had at a very low price, keep him...but I think someone will grab him, and it will be a good investment for said team.

If we DO keep him - quit trying to be fancy with him, move him to his natural position of TE. Find a grinder at FB; Our run game was at its best when Vonta Leach and Lawrence Vickers were clearing the way, no need to try to fit a square peg such as Casey into a round hole. Owen Daniels should feel some heat this season for the #1 TE spot, and it would be peachy-keen if Casey was that guy...

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Shaun Cody - He is older, and frankly not very good IMO. Time to move on.

He's one that I would actually say "if he can be had cheap, keep him" but I get what you're saying. He shouldn't be starting, no sir. Earl Mitchell looked better in limited snaps, time to hand the job over to him and find a true 0-tech to play some NT on certain downs - just a mountain of a person who might not be fast or collapse the pocket, but can hold the LOS where is and give everyone else free lanes to exploit.

Ron Brace is taking phone calls, you know. Very Happy

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Quintin Demps - Can we please move on from this disaster already. Im tired of watching him give up huge plays all the time because he is not disciplined enough to stay deep.

Agreed. Given that Brandon Harris has shown weaknesses when playing down in man coverage, and Roc Carmichael can't seem to find the field, let those two compete for that opening in the S rotation. Both guys are "undersized" but both have straight line speed and can be assets, when they play deep coverage.

IIRC, Harris was the "next man up" after Danieal Manning went down with his fractured tibia in 2011. He's earned enough of Vance Joseph's good graces to be considered for the role at one time, so why not make it a FT gig and bring in someone else to challenge for Brice McCain's NCB spot?

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Tim Dobbins - Frankly Im ready to improve the depth at ILB, and it starts by getting rid of the bad players.

I'd call him as neck and neck with James, and let's not pretend that he wasn't a good player on ST. Keep him, let James walk IMO.

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Keyaron Fox - Who the **** is this.

Anyone remember Madden 2005? Fox was one of the players "interviewed" by Tony Bruno when you played Franchise mode. He was a rookie for KC back then. That's all I know about him. No need to keep him.

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Shayne Graham - Im ready to see Bullock. This will greatly improve our average starting position allowed.

100% agreed. Graham did very well in the spots where we asked him to score, but Bullock has a much better leg when kicking off a tee, which would help our ST units out a bit.

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Donnie Jones - He was ok, but I feel younger guys with a more powerful leg would be better, plus cheaper and more long term.

I'm indifferent. If that guy is out there, then yes. Let's give it the old college try. If not...well, it could be worse at P, we could still have Turk.

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Brice McCain - Its time to move on from this under sized over rated slot corner.

Eh...not unless we have a better plan at NCB. While McCain isn't great, he's loads better than the guys we had at the spot following his injury. You might have a draft pick or two in mind, but...well, I dunno. McCain is coming off of that injury and was never a name you'd consider as a starter, so I can imagine he could be had for a cheap, one year deal. He won't be handed the starting gig, he's gotta beat out Stanford Routt for the job - but would be nice to have someone with good experience and playmaking skill waiting in the wings, just in case something happens to depth and Routt is pressed into starter action.

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Jesse Nading - Can we please move on from him, he doesn't provide anything useful to this squad.

I'll pack his bags for him.

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Stanford Routt - Did not show anything to deserve to come back, couldn't even beat out Harris.

I voiced my thoughts on this earlier, would like to keep him on the cheap and see if he can wrestle away the NCB spot with a full offseason, OTAs and TC under his belt. Unless you have some Frank Bush "color by numbers" defense, it's a tall order to ask someone to pick up a playbook in a few weeks. Sure, we've seen Jason Allen and Bernard Pollard do it, but again - Frank Bush's defense is basically chapter four of "Football for Dummies" and it showed on the field.

Routt - with a full offseason of work - could very well be an impact player for this defense.

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Barrett Ruud - I would actually consider signing him to a cheap contract. He was ok in coverage, except for the Patriots, but that was Wades fault for assuming he could keep up with those guys. But ultimately I chose to let him walk.

I didn't like the signing to begin with, and I don't like it now. Where the hell was "mini-Cushing" aka Shawn Losineau? If you're gonna throw crap on the field, might as well be the young guys with some sort of chutzpa.

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Free Agents I would consider if available

Wes Welker - The more I think about it, the more I think he becomes a free agent. Im not sure what he would command on the market, but if we can afford him, we should make a move. He would be an excellent upgrade to the slot and would be a valuable asset to Matt and our young wide outs. His personality would fit with our team as well. Others: Danny Amendola and Brian Hartline, Brandon Gibson, Louis Murphy, Steve Smith (Rams), Brandon Tate. (LOTS of potential slot guys for our team)

Oooooooh - not sure about Welker. The age isn't in his favor, and...well, since last SB, it seems as if he's developed a bad case of the drops. He carved up Harris, but let's not pretend that he didn't drop a lot of passes following that big hit from Jonathan Joseph in the first quarter. That hit rung his bell in a bad way and he heard footsteps, as he dropped several more over the course of the game. Yesterday was a full out dropfest from the guy - he's just not getting his hands around the ball like he used to, guy is starting to show his true colors as a WR who can get bulk stats because of so many targets, but tends to pull up when big catches are needed.

I like the Hartline suggestion; I believe he can be had VERY cheap, and with Miami looking to bring in Greg Jennings to be their #1, Hartline should be available. Danny Amendola is an interesting name, really tough WR with some sick hands - but I worry about his health, as the guy is seemingly made out of glass and sticks.

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Victor Butler - With Kiffin coming in, there is a chance some guys are on their way out, he was a back up to Anthony Spencer and may not be re-signed if they shift to a 4-3. He could be a decent depth signing at OLB for us. Others: Quentin Groves, Aaron Maybin, Erik Walden, Chris Wilson.

Never heard of him, will have to do some research on him prior to giving a yes or no. I'll give a flat out NO to Groves and Maybin, and - much like Butler - don't know enough about Walden or Wilson to say yes or no.

One name that I would like to see brought in - SF ILB Larry Grant. Being stuck behind NaVarro Bowman and Patrick Willis will mean that Grant won't see many snaps at the starting ILB, and you know he's pining for a starting gig. Dary Sharpton is simply not healthy enough to hold down a starter's gig, so having a starting unit of Cushing/Grant with Sharpton as as the primary backup, Dobbins as the ST guy and emergency backup would be a solid unit. Maybe Shawn Losineau and Mister Alexander compete for the "first guy off the PS" role?

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Trade

Ben Tate - Detroit Lions trade a 5th round pick for Tate, even if Lions don't, pick a team in need of a rb and trade him.

I think the Atlanta Falcons would be willing to spend more on Tate; They have a very complete offense outside of RB. Falcons struck gold last time with a move like this, bringing in a valued backup to a top tier RB when they gave LaDanian Tomlinson's backup a starting job. Michael Turner is clearly not the same guy he was once upon a time, and Tate would be a massive upgrade in that respect. Agree on moving the guy, but I think you can get much more than a 5th rounder for him - heck, move Tate, our actual 3rd round pick in 2013 and a conditional 2014 pick for the Falcons' 1st rounder which should be a few picks after our pick. I don't know the value chart as well as I should, but I would surmise it would pan out...

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NFL Draft

Round 1 - Cordarrelle Patterson WR, a big speedy wide out with great hands. Nice route running and can shield defenders with his body. This play maker is EXACTLY what this offense needs and it is another big guy for the red zone. He will learn A LOT from Andre and will immediately help this offense.

I've already stated Justin Hunter as the guy I'd want the most, but that's nickel and dime stuff - honestly as long as we can end up with Hunter, Patterson, Terrance Williams, Keenan Allen or Robert Woods, I will be ecstatic. Doesn't matter which one, really...all of 'em are top end prospects, would be worlds better than anyone not named Andre Johnson. Rookie + Brian Hartline in a rotation at #2 would be good, and Kevin Walter would be a serviceable #3 in a platoon with Keshawn Martin/Lestar Jean. It would be a vast improvement compared to what 2012 had for us...

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Round 2 - Kawann Short NT, a fast one gap nose tackle. Explosive and very quick to diagnose plays. He is very disruptive and has room to bulk up more to get better at holding the POA. He should greatly help our pass rushing by collapsing the pocket.

Hmm. Not sure if I like this one. I mean, I like Short, think he's a good player at the 1-tech...but as I said earlier, I think the lack of a true 0-tech is what ails this team the most, not much of the same things we have from Cody and Mitchell. I like Short, and IF we can find a 0-tech via FA (Brace, Alan Branch, Aubrayo Franklin, Ma'ake Kemoeatu) then I can sign off on this 100%.

ONE thing to keep in mind - RZ options that might drop. For once, we've seen a lack of TE hold this team back. Now, whether or not we keep Casey in Houston as a TE, this could be moot...but if we let Casey walk, finding a big RZ TE would be a magnificent find for us. If SDSU TE Gavin Escobar or UCLA TE Joseph Fauria can be had in the late second, don't even think twice about it.

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Round 3 - Rick Wagner OT, an athletic OT that fills a need. He has experience at both LT and RT and could add depth if nothing else. I expect him to compete and split time immediately with Newton at RT. Doesn't hurt he is a converted TE nor does it hurt he is from Wisconsin, our favorite college Smile

I'm all for this, been singing his praises for a while.

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Round 3 - AJ Klein ILB, a play making ILB who is side line to side line. He will compete to start day 1 and can help make an impact on TEs and RBs, plus is athletic enough to help blitz from the middle allowing Cushing to do other things.

I'm all for it, but depends if we get an ILB in FA, as I've outlined with Larry Grant from the 49ers. If we didn't, then this makes a lot of sense. If we did...how about SMU DE Margus Hunt with our comp pick? Guy has some risk, as this is his 3rd (or 4th?) year playing organized football - but as a freak of nature, you don't find many who are in Hunt's range, a 6' 8" 280 behemoth who was a Track and Field star for Romania prior to giving football a try. He's the NCAA all time leader in blocked FGs - an obscure stat that the Texans like in their defenders, as the pass swatting JJ Watt and the NCAA leader in forced fumbles Whitney Mercilius can both attest to. Hunt has some unreal size and athletic gifts, he could play the 5-Tech, the 3-Tech, the 1-Tech...just a piece of un-molded clay that can be developed into a devastating player.

The upside of the guy is unreal, and that alone will make him a late 2nd rounder - but if he was there, he'd be such a great pick.

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Round 4 - Cooper Taylor SS, A rangy safety who is smart, athletic and a great build. Had a GREAT shrine game week and game day and really helped his stock. A great combine will elevate him even hirer, hopefully we get a chance to grab him in the 4th. He has TONS of potential and will be a solid choice as a 3rd safety.

Don't know much about him, so will defer to you on this one.

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Round 5 - Zach Sudfeld TE, remember this name. He has gone through tons of injuries throughout his career at Nevada, but he is super athletic, great size and finally healthy. He put up good stats his senior year and has shown the ability to be a good blocker. A great combine should lift his stock.

He had a strong showing when he was healthy, but not some massive outing that would warrent a draft pick. I'd rather go with tried and true prospects at such critical positions. I'd much rather go WR/TE in the first two rounds, and take gamble on NT later on, but that's just me.

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Round 5 - David Quessenberry OG, a good sized guard who is pretty athletic. He will take some time getting use to the speed of the NFL but he is solid depth.

Will defer to you on this one.

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Round 6 - Mike James RB, a veteran back with low miles from the "U". Great one cut and go runner, great hands and good pass blocking skills. He would be a GREAT 3rd back and will push for back up duties come seasons end. I really like him.

RBs take front and center stage for the Texans, even if we keep Ben Tate. The chances are between slim and none that Tate sticks around past next season, as the coaching staff doesn't seem to high on Tate, and Tate wants his starting gig. Mike James seems like an underachiever, and given the continued decline of the value at RB, I could see someone such as Theo Riddick from Notre Dame or Rex Burkhead falling into our laps. Riddick is a jack-of-all-trades type RB, split time at slot WR and RB for the Irish the last two seasons. Not exactly a big play guy, but a grinder with a knack for making plays in the passing game. Burkhead? I think he could be a steal, Alfred Morris-esque; Great runner between the tackles, tough runner who always initiates contact and falls forward. Would be a great replacement for the soft Tate, actually.

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Round 6 - Tyrann Mathieu CB, if there, why the heck not? Take a chance on a guy with big time ability, I doubt he will be here though.

I'm slightly hesitant, but wouldn't say no. Getting caught once? Yeah, fine. Getting caught about 13 times in a week? No thanks. If Mathieu stayed true to his rehab after getting kicked off of LSU, I'd be more willing, but dude went to rehab, got out, the was caught again afterwards. That tells me that he won't be dependable at this level, when you give him some money to spend.

Great player, won't deny that. Just worried about the risks he brings, even at the cost of a 6th round pick.

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Round 6 - Joe Vellano DE, a non stop DE from Maryland who dominated in 2011 and played well through injuries in 2012. A run stuffing, sack generator who will fit in nicely with Watt and Cushing as being a gym rat with 100% commitment to the team and film room. He will be a riser after the combine, watch.

Deferring to you on this one.

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Round 6 - Ryan Allen P, a big leg, good athlete and younger and cheaper than Jones. He had 12 plus punts of 55 yards or more and an uncanny ability to place the ball within the 20. 43.5 NET per punt. Back to back Ray Guy (best punter in CFB) winner, FIRST TIME EVER, don't miss out on this guy Rick Smith.

Eh. Cheaper than Jones, at least. I'm in.

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Round 7 - Braden Wilson FB, a solid runner but a big time blocker. I just want a FB here.

I'm for it, even if we keep Casey. A real blocking FB, if we really feel as if Tyler Clutts can't get the job done (and if we did feel as if Clutts could do it, he would of seen snaps this past season).

Interesting to see no QBs in your mock offseason. You've stated how you want to see how Matt Schaub looks with a full complement of options in the passing game, and I agree - but I also think that the window for looking for the next QB is in the next few years, as Matt ain't getting any younger, and has always had issues with health. At the very least, you see if there are any Kirk Cousins or Nick Foles or Russell Wilson-type QBs in this draft - solid QBs who might drop because they don't have some freakish athletic gifts, or bazooka arms. Guys who can sit and develop for 2-3 years, while Schaub is in "make it or break it" mode. If a guy like Jordan Rodgers, Ryan Nassib or Zach Dysert just wows folks on their pro day, then look to make the proper moves to get them in early, learn the system and bide their time while Schaub leads this team. When that day comes where you have no choice but to make a move, you have a QB who is system ready to pick up where Matt left off.

I'll bypass the depth chart, as I have only listed a few options, not gone in depth as to selections, signings, releases and such. I should be crafting up a mock offseason in due time, so keep eyes out for that. Wink
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Ball would be good enough in the slot IMO. McCain was rated significantly worse than Ball according to PFF rankings. While I agree Ball is not GREAT, he can push Harris to be better and provides much more than McCain on special teams. Plus you could do another one year deal for cheap.

While I agree Dobbins may bet better than James vs the run, James provides more as a back up, which both would be. Honestly whichever comes cheaper, retain. This doesn't matter to much to me.

Honestly I would prefer to move on from Barwin, but we would desperately need another rush line backer then. Mercilus can be penciled in as a starter, but it's lot like he lit the world on fire. We need pressure from the outside BAD. Letting Barwin go would mean spending money in free agency on a pass rusher, which could cost more. Honestly Victor Butler could be a good cheap option here, he is explosive but stuck behind Ware and Spencer.

Trade Tate, he is a waste IMO. But saying you can get a 3rd for him is crazy IMO. He showed nothing this season and has been injured 2 or 3 seasons. (freak or not). He isn't worth that much.

I do provide some rookies to compete here, but signing Harris to another one year deal won't hurt and provides depth (and with someone who knows the system).

I would be ok cutting Gardner if we don't take a cap hit. He is useless.

I just feel we don't have the money to waste on Casey who is over rated anyway.

Cody has been battling back problems and frankly provides nothing to the run because our run d up the middle has been a weakness for 2 seasons now. I think he is a big time waste.

Id be ok with Routt if he came cheap, he showed nothing to warrant a decent contract, Give him another 1 year deal near the minimum.

If we don't land Welker, which is fine with me, we better try to grab Hartline or someone with that ability, I would think you could get a guy like that for say 4 years 12 million (3m per year). And this would be a big upgrade over Walter.

I will leave Patterson alone for now, you know how I feel about him

You may want a big strong NT but this doesn't fit with what Wade has been doing at NT since he's been here. Short is an explosive NT who can pressure the qb and hold the POA. He weighed in at 306 pounds, 6 3 and has a 82" wing span. He has a nice thick frame and would be a great addition between Smith and Watt. We will get to see him at the Senior bowl this week

Grant hasn't really proven anything, but as you said, hasn't had a chance to. This is a big gamble with no evidence to support the decision. IMO

You need to learn about Cooper Taylor

Sudfeld fits the Gary mold.

Mike James may have under achieved, but so did Foster, its their skill set that matters. He fits the zbs to a tee.
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EliteTexan80


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Joined: 30 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
Alan Ball would be good enough in the slot IMO. McCain was rated significantly worse than Ball according to PFF rankings. While I agree Ball is not GREAT, he can push Harris to be better and provides much more than McCain on special teams. Plus you could do another one year deal for cheap.

That PFF rankings was from this past season, where the pass rush was not there for anyone. When the Texans WERE able to generate a pass rush, as in 2011? McCain rated out as one of the top 3 CBs according to FootballOutsiders (or PFF, forget which one).

I'm not going to damn a guy because an entire unit sagged, leading to his demise. As you aptly put, it comes down to money. Both Ball and McCain should be had on a one year deal on the cheap; Doubt there will be a bidding war for either guy, as neither translates out to starter material. I don't think either McCain or Ball warrent enough to get some massive deal on the market, and wouldn't balk at both making the roster.

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While I agree Dobbins may bet better than James vs the run, James provides more as a back up, which both would be. Honestly whichever comes cheaper, retain. This doesn't matter to much to me.
I guess I don't understand this statement - Dobbins is better against the run, both are bad in coverage, yet James is better as a backup? Dobbins' calling card is ST coverage, he's arguably one of our better players in that role, behind Bryan Brahman and Ball.

But, agreed. Neither will break the bank, so whoever is willing to come in cheap will get the job.

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Honestly I would prefer to move on from Barwin, but we would desperately need another rush line backer then. Mercilus can be penciled in as a starter, but it's lot like he lit the world on fire. We need pressure from the outside BAD. Letting Barwin go would mean spending money in free agency on a pass rusher, which could cost more. Honestly Victor Butler could be a good cheap option here, he is explosive but stuck behind Ware and Spencer.

I've always been high on giving Bryan Brahman more snaps on defense, and this might present itself as an option if Barwin gets big money on the open market (Jets? Browns?) As far as roster replacement - maybe this is where you look to the draft, see if there's an undersized 4-3 DE who has good enough athleticism and smarts to transition to 3-4 OLB. A glance at a few guys who are in the draft have a few prospects - Tourek Williams from FIU is a name worthy of note, productive but undersized for a 4-3 DE in the NFL - but would have to pour into this draft class to come up with several names.

I just have a feeling that if Barwin wants money, he will get it. LOTS of it.

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Trade Tate, he is a waste IMO. But saying you can get a 3rd for him is crazy IMO. He showed nothing this season and has been injured 2 or 3 seasons. (freak or not). He isn't worth that much.

That's why I think he has to be part of a package deal - Tate on his own isn't worth the 2nd rounder we spent on him, agreed. Guy is developing a reputation of being out of shape (as hamstring issues are usually non-contact injuries, and can be avoided by spending time in the weight room as well as with the trainers, even when healthy). However, you package Tate with a pick or two (picks we can be risky on because we have extra picks this draft) and you can start to generate some value. Tate/3rd for Atlanta's first might be TOO much, but given that the Falcons are desperate to find a RB to go along with that passing attack, you might be able to window dress this one up. Tate/3rd could be a mid 2nd rounder along with some 2014 selections...

We'll see, but Tate should be gone. Value can be debated.

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I do provide some rookies to compete here, but signing Harris to another one year deal won't hurt and provides depth (and with someone who knows the system).

I just feel as if it's an unnecessary signing for now. Much like last season, it isn't as if Harris is going to be a commodity - if he doesn't sign with Houston, I don't see ANYONE signing him. You can pick up the phone a few days before the 2013 season, and he'd be a Texan, done deal. He'll be there if it turns out that Newton/Mondeck/Wagner doesn't fit the bill and we need someone to take on a RT role when Wagner/Mondeck is sent to the IR resort.

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I would be ok cutting Gardner if we don't take a cap hit. He is useless.

RFA? ERFA? I forget. If it costs money to get rid of him via cap, then keep him.

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I just feel we don't have the money to waste on Casey who is over rated anyway.

Agreed.

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Cody has been battling back problems and frankly provides nothing to the run because our run d up the middle has been a weakness for 2 seasons now. I think he is a big time waste.

This kind of falls in line with my talk of a 0-tech being needed; For the longest, we've went with 1-Techs, and while the strength of the spot was evident in 2011 (not really, but will say it was for argument's sake) the weakness of it - allowing teams to run in between G/C/G - was made apparent when the ILBs in our system simply didn't have what is needed to make plays that Brian Cushing could make.

I'm not saying we need to scrap the system, just add a wrinkle to it with a 0-tech. We did bring in Loni Fangupo as a UDFA, so we're not too off with the assumption that it's on the mind of Phillips at times.

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Id be ok with Routt if he came cheap, he showed nothing to warrant a decent contract, Give him another 1 year deal near the minimum.

Of course, no way he makes the money he made last offseason as the replacement for Brandon Carr.

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If we don't land Welker, which is fine with me, we better try to grab Hartline or someone with that ability, I would think you could get a guy like that for say 4 years 12 million (3m per year). And this would be a big upgrade over Walter.

Agreed 100%. At the worst, we have a spell player for our new rookie, who can eventually work their way down into a timeshare at the #3 role with Walter and Martin. (I see this season as make or break for Lestar Jean; He had some flashes here and there, but guy seems to be a walking injury).

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I will leave Patterson alone for now, you know how I feel about him

I'm not low on him, wouldn't be too upset if we grabbed him at 27. If I had to rank the WRs in the first round:

1. Hunter
2. Patterson
3. Terrance Williams
4. Keenan Allen
5. Robert Woods

DeAndre Hopkins also falls into this ranking, just not sure where.

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You may want a big strong NT but this doesn't fit with what Wade has been doing at NT since he's been here.

...which might be part of the problem, actually. It wasn't a problem in 2011, when Cushing was able to clean up the mess in the middle, but without Cushing? We saw it unfold, like a bad dream - or does Vick Ballard getting 105 on 18 carries not worry you?

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Short is an explosive NT who can pressure the qb and hold the POA. He weighed in at 306 pounds, 6 3 and has a 82" wing span. He has a nice thick frame and would be a great addition between Smith and Watt. We will get to see him at the Senior bowl this week

I'm not saying a definitive no to him, but would need to see some sort of change up front, one that would indicate a pass rush set at 3-4 along with a run stop set at 3-4. I'd also advocate that getting another RZ option would trump this need, as AJ + rookie STILL isn't enough when you get inside the 20s.

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Grant hasn't really proven anything, but as you said, hasn't had a chance to. This is a big gamble with no evidence to support the decision. IMO

Same can be said about the rookies of this class, no? I'm not advocating throwing a Brinks truck full of money at him, just a solid three year deal with the chance to break into the starting lineup. Given the history of SF LBs over the past 3-5 seasons, I'd say they have an eye for finding some value - even their #4 LB Ahmad Brooks is a very complete player and would start for all 32 teams in the NFL.

Mike Singletary and Mike Nolan really built up the depth at LB, they've been known for their eye at that particular position. I agree it is a risk, but what FA or draft pick ISN'T a risk?

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You need to learn about Cooper Taylor

Quick Google search tells me he plays at Richmond, played five years started as a Freshman, lost PT for some reason (injury?) and had a solid Sr season. Nothing flashy, nothing bad. Will have to wait and see how the draft season rolls around on him.

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Sudfeld fits the Gary mold.

I kind of said it in other posts, but I don't think the Gary mold is working anymore. Might be fine from one 20 yard line to another, but where the points are concerned, it's not there. I wouldn't be too bothered, but I'd much rather take the safer option in Gavin Escobar. Might have to buy in early, but if it pays off and we find a big time RZ threat, is it worth it?

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Mike James may have under achieved, but so did Foster, its their skill set that matters. He fits the zbs to a tee.

Foster underachieved in one year, his last year - his Jr year he was a monster, with nearly 1,200 yards and 12 TDs, garnised some All-SEC awards and would of been an early 3rd rounder had he not decided to stay in school. What worries me about James is that he's NEVER produced, with last year's 621/6 TDs being career highs for the guy. Heck, Foster's FRESHMAN year - 879/5 TDs was better than James' career best.

In the case of Burkhead - he was widely considered to be a machine at RB for Nebraska, with 1,300+ and 15 TDs in 2011. This year, guy got hurt while turning in his best season in college - what would of been a 3rd round grade for him last year, and a late 2nd round guy had he not blown his knee. Outside of this one year, Burkhead has been a monster in college, and has the type of build, vision and quickness our system would need.

Really - comes down to who is there at the spot. I'm certain that unless James was to have some phenomenal combine showing (I'm talking 4.3 40, 1.35 10 split, while hitting 25 reps at 225) he's probably going to go undrafted. Heck, Lamar Miller nearly doubled James' production coming out of the U last season and he was a late 5th round pick. Was a more complete, more productive player...and had to wait for the final three rounds to hear his name called.

I wouldn't lose sleep if we got James, but I think you're overvaluing him by a lot.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Quote:
Glover Quin - He might actually be our first priority this off-season. He is a great run stuffing safety and very good in coverage vs TEs and Rbs, losing him only hurts us down the road against the Patriots. Don't over pay for a non play making safety, but know he is important to our defense. We just need to add a 3rd safety to prevent those deep passes against us.

Agreed, keeping Quin needs to be job #1 for Rick Smith. Vastly underrated S, arguably the only defender who played a full 16 games for us. Even in the month we shall never speak of, guy was a playmaker.


I'm all for keeping Quin, but this #1 priority stuff needs to stop as Quin is barely in the middle of the pack amongst free agent safeties, better yet overall. Safeties who can tackle are a dime a dozen. This is a play making position and a play stopping position and Quin is highly limited at both. Every year some S is drafted that transforms a defense and Mark Barron and Harrison Smith were no different this year (Erik Berry & Earl Thomas in 2010).

I would dump Quin for Jairus Byrd in 1/2 a second as he is EXACTLY what we need to cure our problems in deep coverage, could actually create turnovers back there (13 more than Quin) and probably instantly become our 2nd best in coverage behind Joseph.

William Moore has become exactly who I said he would become 4 years ago when I was pissed we took backup DE Connor Barwin over finally filling our safety need. Took him a while to be healthy, but he does everything Quin does except about 33% better.

Dashon Goldson. I advocated bringing him in 2011 due to Vance Joseph connection and cheap price. All he has done is become the 2nd best safety in the NFC - behind Earl Thomas who I desperately wanted us to trade up for. Ya think safeties matter, folks?

Chris Clemons. Best SS you've never heard of. Not saying he's better as I'd put him pretty much on par with Quin, but shows that safeties who tackle just aren't that hard to find as they slapped him into the lineup as a 5th round nobody and didn't miss a beat. He'd be a decent fall back if Quin tried to use Texans defensive success as spring board to payday beyond his value as a good, not great player.

Kenny Phillips - much higher upside than Quin aside from health concerns. Everyone except Texans fans will have him above Quin.

Stevie Brown - all he did was get 8 ints force 2 fumbles and play assassin to Romo, Brees, and Vick. Made more game changing plays in a two months as an injury replacement than Quin has in 4 years.

Patrick Chung - at the very least, we should explore adding a viable #3 safety like Chung.
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Raz


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^
I'm with you Apollo, we need a safety that can cover and create turnovers.
I don't think Wade Phillips will magically change the defense with the same personal and actually create turnovers and defend the pass.
Joe Haden and Earl Thomas were my ideal players for the Texans back then but i'm hoping we can somehow get Matt Elam now (although that means no 1st round WR) and get a capable wide reciever.
The draft is stacked in WR.
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Glover Quin - He might actually be our first priority this off-season. He is a great run stuffing safety and very good in coverage vs TEs and Rbs, losing him only hurts us down the road against the Patriots. Don't over pay for a non play making safety, but know he is important to our defense. We just need to add a 3rd safety to prevent those deep passes against us.

Agreed, keeping Quin needs to be job #1 for Rick Smith. Vastly underrated S, arguably the only defender who played a full 16 games for us. Even in the month we shall never speak of, guy was a playmaker.


I'm all for keeping Quin, but this #1 priority stuff needs to stop as Quin is barely in the middle of the pack amongst free agent safeties, better yet overall. Safeties who can tackle are a dime a dozen. This is a play making position and a play stopping position and Quin is highly limited at both. Every year some S is drafted that transforms a defense and Mark Barron and Harrison Smith were no different this year (Erik Berry & Earl Thomas in 2010).

I would dump Quin for Jairus Byrd in 1/2 a second as he is EXACTLY what we need to cure our problems in deep coverage, could actually create turnovers back there (13 more than Quin) and probably instantly become our 2nd best in coverage behind Joseph.

William Moore has become exactly who I said he would become 4 years ago when I was pissed we took backup DE Connor Barwin over finally filling our safety need. Took him a while to be healthy, but he does everything Quin does except about 33% better.

Dashon Goldson. I advocated bringing him in 2011 due to Vance Joseph connection and cheap price. All he has done is become the 2nd best safety in the NFC - behind Earl Thomas who I desperately wanted us to trade up for. Ya think safeties matter, folks?

Chris Clemons. Best SS you've never heard of. Not saying he's better as I'd put him pretty much on par with Quin, but shows that safeties who tackle just aren't that hard to find as they slapped him into the lineup as a 5th round nobody and didn't miss a beat. He'd be a decent fall back if Quin tried to use Texans defensive success as spring board to payday beyond his value as a good, not great player.

Kenny Phillips - much higher upside than Quin aside from health concerns. Everyone except Texans fans will have him above Quin.

Stevie Brown - all he did was get 8 ints force 2 fumbles and play assassin to Romo, Brees, and Vick. Made more game changing plays in a two months as an injury replacement than Quin has in 4 years.

Patrick Chung - at the very least, we should explore adding a viable #3 safety like Chung.


You think its that easy, come up with money for a play making safety in free agency and have money for other free agents, like our own, the draft players and being able to sign Cushing, Watt and Jackson in a few years, oh did I mention Andres salary increases about 5 million this season.

You don't get a team full of all stars. Quin is good for what he is, its time to supplement him with a better coverage safety. We often run 3 safeties at a time and quin is good enough to shut down MOST tes just not Gronk or Hernandez, and they didn't beat him much it was our lbs they dominated...Demps and Keo being on the field is a joke, has nothing to do with Quin, Demps is the one often allowing massive plays over the top because he cannot stay back.

Youre expectations are unrealistic and will never be met. You could literally [inappropriate/removed] about anything and try to put a spin on it.
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jch1911


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
Chris Clemons. Best SS you've never heard of. Not saying he's better as I'd put him pretty much on par with Quin, but shows that safeties who tackle just aren't that hard to find as they slapped him into the lineup as a 5th round nobody and didn't miss a beat. He'd be a decent fall back if Quin tried to use Texans defensive success as spring board to payday beyond his value as a good, not great player.


Agree about Clemons.

Do not agree with GQ being just another guy.

Would love to add David Bruton (Denver). He appears to have the ability to cover the deep half of the field in 3-safety sets and plays ST
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Glover Quin - He might actually be our first priority this off-season. He is a great run stuffing safety and very good in coverage vs TEs and Rbs, losing him only hurts us down the road against the Patriots. Don't over pay for a non play making safety, but know he is important to our defense. We just need to add a 3rd safety to prevent those deep passes against us.

Agreed, keeping Quin needs to be job #1 for Rick Smith. Vastly underrated S, arguably the only defender who played a full 16 games for us. Even in the month we shall never speak of, guy was a playmaker.


I'm all for keeping Quin, but this #1 priority stuff needs to stop as Quin is barely in the middle of the pack amongst free agent safeties, better yet overall.

Given that the team is pretty strapped against the cap, what would you define as priority #1 for the team? Legit curious on this one.

Quote:
I would dump Quin for Jairus Byrd in 1/2 a second as he is EXACTLY what we need to cure our problems in deep coverage, could actually create turnovers back there (13 more than Quin) and probably instantly become our 2nd best in coverage behind Joseph.

Do you really think we have the money to make this move? It's not like Byrd hasn't become one of the most stable presences for the Bills' defense, and they have money to burn this offseason, even with albatross contracts being doled out to Mario Williams and Ryan Fitzpatrick. Maybe some gentleman's agreement among GMs is in place (you took Mario from us, so we'll take Byrd from you) but I highly doubt we beat Buffalo in a bidding war. In every other aspect, the Texans are ahead of the Bills, but if money is the deciding factor, I doubt we'd win - nor would I WANT to win for a one trick pony such as Byrd (who is on the other end of the spectrum in comparison to Quin - can create turnovers and play deep CF, but would not be 1/10 the run presence that Quin is). If you want to swap out one weakness for another, that's fine, I have no issue with that - but you have to be aware of said weakness prior to making a big money offer.

Quote:
William Moore has become exactly who I said he would become 4 years ago when I was pissed we took backup DE Connor Barwin over finally filling our safety need. Took him a while to be healthy, but he does everything Quin does except about 33% better.

Again - money will be an issue, and it isn't like the Texans represent some greater chance at playing in the SB vs the Falcons, who managed to hang onto their #1 seed and got the playoff monkey off their back by beating the hottest team in the NFL at the time. Moore was the cog that kept a secondary suffering a major loss in Brent Grimes going, and Atlanta is about to pay the man.

I fully agree we should of drafted him, but hindsight is 20/20. No need to rehash this, and trying to rectify it by blowing your cap in a bidding war with Atlanta isn't going to make it any better.

Quote:
Dashon Goldson. I advocated bringing him in 2011 due to Vance Joseph connection and cheap price. All he has done is become the 2nd best safety in the NFC - behind Earl Thomas who I desperately wanted us to trade up for. Ya think safeties matter, folks?

That cheap price is now a thing of the past, as the 49ers should have enough money to keep him on roster. IF he were to hit the market, yeah...but what are the odds?

There are a plethora of issues with this one - Goldson has become a core guy for the dominant team in the NFC, one that flexes its muscle in the Regular Season and into the Postseason. If winning is his motivation, why would he want to leave that? Again, the 49ers have money to spare to keep him on board. Might mean they have decisions to make on some other players, but just like keeping our core intact is priority #1, keeping a SB core intact should be priority #1 for Trent Baalke, one of the only GMs you'd slot ahead of Rick Smith in terms of what he's done. The Niners will get creative, they'll shave off a lot of money once they have a buyer for Alex Smith - so if money was his motivation, why would he want to leave that?

There is literally no incentive for Goldson to leave his current team. None. You advocated this in the past, but as I said with Moore...hindsight is 20/20. Why cry over spilled milk, we have a SB in 2014 we want to make, and harping on issues of the past doesn't get this team any closer to that.

Quote:
Chris Clemons. Best SS you've never heard of. Not saying he's better as I'd put him pretty much on par with Quin, but shows that safeties who tackle just aren't that hard to find as they slapped him into the lineup as a 5th round nobody and didn't miss a beat. He'd be a decent fall back if Quin tried to use Texans defensive success as spring board to payday beyond his value as a good, not great player.

Fair enough. Clemons, or the resurgent LaRon Landry would be great fall back options, but why risk it when you have a guy who is familiar with the system? Why bring in change when it doesn't represent anything outside of a new name, same results for the same money?

Quote:
Kenny Phillips - much higher upside than Quin aside from health concerns. Everyone except Texans fans will have him above Quin.

Fair enough, can be had on the cheap as well. But do you take a chance on the injuries, given that he's never stayed healthy (save for 2010) whereas Quin has yet to miss a start?

Sometimes you have to pass on the sexy names for reliable names. Phillips as a replacement for Quentin Demps would be a great move, but given the lack of health that Phillips has, we're one case of turf toe away from relying on Shiloh Keo as an every down starter.

Quote:
Stevie Brown - all he did was get 8 ints force 2 fumbles and play assassin to Romo, Brees, and Vick. Made more game changing plays in a two months as an injury replacement than Quin has in 4 years.

Fair, if the Giants choose to not tag him with a 1st round designation. (Brown is an RFA). Given what we saw from him, I highly doubt this doesn't become the case. Do you part ways with a 1st round pick for a guy who has two months worth of excellent football on his resume?

Quote:
Patrick Chung - at the very least, we should explore adding a viable #3 safety like Chung.

As someone who started up a bandwagon to make Chung a late 1st round selection in 2008, I can say that in no way does Chung represent an upgrade over Quin, in ANY form or fashion. Guy got beat out by the abysmal Steve Gregory this past season, and Gregory is that one guy that WE picked on in both of our games against the Pats.

Chung might be a slight improvement over Quentin Demps at this stage - at least he's healthier.
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