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Watching the 9ers makes me believe in Pryor
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Nodisrespect


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Are you guys really this naive? I don't think so, come on...

Of course he says competition is open. Why would anyone not say that for a 4-12 team. He doesn't want anyone getting comfortable, and if better competition is available for any slot why would a GM ever overlook that?

But if you look just a hair deeper, beyond the surface platitiudes any GM would put forth, he says things.

He responds to questions about Palmer and his health straight away, as if responding about a player who is a key part of the team. He states straight out Pryor is currently #2, even though after that he adds the usual "open competition line", which is always true for every GM. He talks about Leinart as if he is a non factor entirely..

I am not saying anything is a guarantee, and that is exactly what RM is saying. But just a little bit of reading between the lines and it shows some of what is planned. As of now, Pryor #2, Palmer #1, that much is quite clear. And whether or not a better option comes along, if one does McKenzie would take it. So would any GM. But where we find and try to predict what he "will do", comes along with what he "can do". Little options out there for this team right now as far as adding other, better, quarterbacks. Not no options, but few. Really. I mean FA is not flush with premier options, we know the guy doesn't want to shed more picks for an addition, and our draft cupboard is still pretty limited. Overall it's a high likelihood this is your #1 and #2 of 2013 unless an upgrade option emerges from out of the blue. I know it's not what alot of you want to hear, and we all have our own ideas, but there's a reality guys like RM have to deal with in order to manage a team for long term. A fan cannot often see that reality from their arm chair, and everyone likes to have their own opinions of what "should" happen.


You also have to take into account the kind of posturing a GM must engage in to protect team interests. Such as the part with McFadden. Sure, he's identifying what he does and saying he's staying. That doesn't mean a trade couldn't happen. It just means he can't as a GM tip his hand about anything. It's RM's job to do anything he can do to maintain a guy's value to the Raiders. Most of what he says to the press has to be a balance between the truth needed to satisfy fans, and white lies needed to do his own job in managing both his own players and their value to other teams.

Everything McKenzie says has to be a calculated statement in order to protect all the interests that go along with his job.
I agree with most of what you said, but i think Palmer health is directly correlated to his tradability. I mean even the Packers loved Brett Favre up until the minute they traded him. He was vague, and i agree we can all twist his words to fit our ideas.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, on one hand we can read between the lines that McFadden can still be traded but we can't envision Palmer not being the starter when he comes short of naming him the starter? Do you think i know what's on his mind? I surely don't. That's why i'm not making definitive statements about anything, just pointing out a few things to discuss. This sentence could mean nothing or a lot.
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
So, on one hand we can read between the lines that McFadden can still be traded but we can't envision Palmer not being the starter when he comes short of naming him the starter? Do you think i know what's on his mind? I surely don't. That's why i'm not making definitive statements about anything, just pointing out a few things to discuss. This sentence could mean nothing or a lot.


I'm not saying Palmer or McFadden will or won't be traded. However what I am saying is that McFadden, even with being injury prone and coming off his worst year, has more tradeability than Palmer. He's alot younger with a much cheaper contract, and honestly more easily replaced. And to the right team, maybe they think he could add alot. I don't see alot of teams looking at Palmer as someone they would add in trade. Too much contract, too much age.

I know everyone here loves to argue and put their opinions forth, but the way I see the situation if I had to put forth an outsider perspective and prediction it would be this - 75% chance at start of 2013 - Pryor #2, Palmer #1, McFadden still here. It's just by far the most realistic scenario.

McKenzie will do whatever presents itself in order to improve the team's situation. But these guys have flawed value, flawed game, and RM is still hamstrung by money and draft picks for this year. So wild changes are just not terribly realistic. Long term building always means boring, stable, smart decisions in a gradual process. Not very much as far as instant gratification, and considering how long we have waited for a winner, it's hard to have to keep waiting. But we'll probably have to keep waiting.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:

I'm not saying Palmer or McFadden will or won't be traded. However what I am saying is that McFadden, even with being injury prone and coming off his worst year, has more tradeability than Palmer. He's alot younger with a much cheaper contract, and honestly more easily replaced. And to the right team, maybe they think he could add alot. I don't see alot of teams looking at Palmer as someone they would add in trade. Too much contract, too much age.


McFadden probably has more tradability but i'm not a sure a trade is the only way Palmer isn't the starter next season. Odds are he will be but this interview didn't answer that question. Actually, this interview didn't answer any question.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
holyghost wrote:

I'm not saying Palmer or McFadden will or won't be traded. However what I am saying is that McFadden, even with being injury prone and coming off his worst year, has more tradeability than Palmer. He's alot younger with a much cheaper contract, and honestly more easily replaced. And to the right team, maybe they think he could add alot. I don't see alot of teams looking at Palmer as someone they would add in trade. Too much contract, too much age.


McFadden probably has more tradability but i'm not a sure a trade is the only way Palmer isn't the starter next season. Odds are he will be but this interview didn't answer that question. Actually, this interview didn't answer any question.


It answered very few and raised a lot more imo.
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dante9876


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
holyghost wrote:

I'm not saying Palmer or McFadden will or won't be traded. However what I am saying is that McFadden, even with being injury prone and coming off his worst year, has more tradeability than Palmer. He's alot younger with a much cheaper contract, and honestly more easily replaced. And to the right team, maybe they think he could add alot. I don't see alot of teams looking at Palmer as someone they would add in trade. Too much contract, too much age.


McFadden probably has more tradability but i'm not a sure a trade is the only way Palmer isn't the starter next season. Odds are he will be but this interview didn't answer that question. Actually, this interview didn't answer any question.


It answered very few and raised a lot more imo.


I dont get why our GM is having so many press conferences anyway. To me wanting to explain yourself means something isnt going right.
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OakRaiders3828


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
holyghost wrote:

I'm not saying Palmer or McFadden will or won't be traded. However what I am saying is that McFadden, even with being injury prone and coming off his worst year, has more tradeability than Palmer. He's alot younger with a much cheaper contract, and honestly more easily replaced. And to the right team, maybe they think he could add alot. I don't see alot of teams looking at Palmer as someone they would add in trade. Too much contract, too much age.


McFadden probably has more tradability but i'm not a sure a trade is the only way Palmer isn't the starter next season. Odds are he will be but this interview didn't answer that question. Actually, this interview didn't answer any question.


It answered very few and raised a lot more imo.


I dont get why our GM is having so many press conferences anyway. To me whating to explain yourself means something isnt going right.


He was answering questions (vaguely) for the media and the fans, something that really never happened here. He wasn't trying to explain anything, just simply answered what the media wanted explanations for. I don't get why that's a bad thing to have a GM that is trying to cater to the fans needs. Personally I like hearing what he has to say every now and then, that's just me though.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
holyghost wrote:

I'm not saying Palmer or McFadden will or won't be traded. However what I am saying is that McFadden, even with being injury prone and coming off his worst year, has more tradeability than Palmer. He's alot younger with a much cheaper contract, and honestly more easily replaced. And to the right team, maybe they think he could add alot. I don't see alot of teams looking at Palmer as someone they would add in trade. Too much contract, too much age.


McFadden probably has more tradability but i'm not a sure a trade is the only way Palmer isn't the starter next season. Odds are he will be but this interview didn't answer that question. Actually, this interview didn't answer any question.


It answered very few and raised a lot more imo.


I dont get why our GM is having so many press conferences anyway. To me wanting to explain yourself means something isnt going right.


PR. Everybody complained about the Raiders secretive nature under Al Davis. Now, they are trying to satisfy the fans' curiosity, even if they don't say much when they talk.
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dante9876


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
holyghost wrote:

I'm not saying Palmer or McFadden will or won't be traded. However what I am saying is that McFadden, even with being injury prone and coming off his worst year, has more tradeability than Palmer. He's alot younger with a much cheaper contract, and honestly more easily replaced. And to the right team, maybe they think he could add alot. I don't see alot of teams looking at Palmer as someone they would add in trade. Too much contract, too much age.


McFadden probably has more tradability but i'm not a sure a trade is the only way Palmer isn't the starter next season. Odds are he will be but this interview didn't answer that question. Actually, this interview didn't answer any question.


It answered very few and raised a lot more imo.


I dont get why our GM is having so many press conferences anyway. To me whating to explain yourself means something isnt going right.


He was answering questions (vaguely) for the media and the fans, something that really never happened here. He wasn't trying to explain anything, just simply answered what the media wanted explanations for. I don't get why that's a bad thing to have a GM that is trying to cater to the fans needs. Personally I like hearing what he has to say every now and then, that's just me though.


Do successful GMs have pressers as much as he does to answer questions to the fans and media. I dont think medicore GMs has had as many pressers as Reggie has had since he has been here.
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Baggabonez


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also appreciate the transparency and I find McKenzie very candid. Transparency dispels a lot of the false narratives RaiderNation likes to hold on to. Like: Palmer will be jettisoned for Pryor. No one is asking about Palmer because only on forum sites is there the expectation that Palmer won't be in Oakland. More evidence of how collective loonie we are when McKenzie all but suggests he won't/can't (salary cap constraints) move DMC and we get "DMC is on the trading block" out of it.
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Nodisrespect


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Nodisrespect wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Noone even mentioned the part where he said straight out Pryor is the #2, and that Leinart is essentially gone. When talking about Leinart, it sounded like there was no indication whatsoever he would be resigned. So you can look as deep as you want into the Pryor stuff, but remember what he says about Pryor is at worst lukewarm, while what he says about Leinart is pretty much ice cold. And it is pretty clear he still sees Palmer as the starter straight away.


Quote:
Q: Would you be confident in him as the No. 2 guy next year?
McKenzie: Right now hes our No. 2. Weve got Matt Leinart as a free agent. Im going to bring guys in. Im not penciling in anybody at any position as one, two. Im going to have somebody in here to try to compete with everybody. So Im not going to get into who is two or three, or number one for that matter.


I think the most intriguing thing is he's not even penciling anyone as the #1 as of right now.
agreed


"Anybody at any position". Not very interesting since he was just making a broad statement that if the right upgrade presents itself at any position, he won't discount it.


No, it obviously means the QB position. Obviously. How can you not see that? Geez. Rolling Eyes


Laughing Seriously reaching on that one.


Ok,well here is Reggie confirming my thought.

https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmsports/raiders-gm-reggie-mckenzie-on
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nodisrespect wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Nodisrespect wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Noone even mentioned the part where he said straight out Pryor is the #2, and that Leinart is essentially gone. When talking about Leinart, it sounded like there was no indication whatsoever he would be resigned. So you can look as deep as you want into the Pryor stuff, but remember what he says about Pryor is at worst lukewarm, while what he says about Leinart is pretty much ice cold. And it is pretty clear he still sees Palmer as the starter straight away.


Quote:
Q: Would you be confident in him as the No. 2 guy next year?
McKenzie: Right now hes our No. 2. Weve got Matt Leinart as a free agent. Im going to bring guys in. Im not penciling in anybody at any position as one, two. Im going to have somebody in here to try to compete with everybody. So Im not going to get into who is two or three, or number one for that matter.


I think the most intriguing thing is he's not even penciling anyone as the #1 as of right now.
agreed


"Anybody at any position". Not very interesting since he was just making a broad statement that if the right upgrade presents itself at any position, he won't discount it.


No, it obviously means the QB position. Obviously. How can you not see that? Geez. Rolling Eyes


Laughing Seriously reaching on that one.


Ok,well here is Reggie confirming my thought.

https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmsports/raiders-gm-reggie-mckenzie-on


Still think its a load of crap. I'll believe it when Pryor starts a preseason game over Palmer. Like how QB competitions work. I'll gladly eat my words then, but until then, this is all smoke and mirrors
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Baggabonez


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL.

Lessee, 3rd OC in 3 years. Pryor is expected to beat out Palmer playing in an offense that plays to Palmer's strengths for a HC on the hot seat. Best chance to see Pryor will be if the Raiders are out of contention.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
LOL.

Lessee, 3rd OC in 3 years. Pryor is expected to beat out Palmer playing in an offense that plays to Palmer's strengths for a HC on the hot seat. Best chance to see Pryor will be if the Raiders are out of contention.


Or Palmer gets hurt and there's no new QB coming in to challenge him for the number 2 spot. I wonder how much Reggie liked Flynn.....
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Nodisrespect


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
LOL.

Lessee, 3rd OC in 3 years. Pryor is expected to beat out Palmer playing in an offense that plays to Palmer's strengths for a HC on the hot seat. Best chance to see Pryor will be if the Raiders are out of contention.
Ok so week 5. Laughing
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