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Ace5
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 5544
Location: CT
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 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: | Dez and Cole are going at it on twitter. 
Cole Beasley @Bease11
| Quote: | | @DezBryant u better score every time cause once I get the ball u won't get it back. Lol |
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The master has become the super master. Dez's days as lead dog are numbered. A glorious new utopia is nigh. Long live the Pax Colemana!
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TheStarStillShines
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 8260
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Football Mensa wrote: | | TheStarStillShines wrote: | | Football Mensa wrote: | Star it can be stopped. Ware took the wrong approach vs the Skins. How many times did we not see a blocker on Ware and he just stood there ? Ryan should have had Ware blitzing when there wasn't a blocker on him and he should have hit the qb and rb at the same time. It disrupts every thing even if he doesn't make the tackle. Even if the qb keeps the ball and runs to Ware's side he will have to loop back to get around him which allows the lb's or db's to come up and tackle him.
There seemed to be a lot of read and react in Ryans d. That was one of my main issues with his d. In the 4-3 Ware will be moving forward every play. |
I'm not saying that the read-option is unstoppable. Rather, I'm saying it's not going to fall by the wayside like the Wildcat because the read-option has many more options available. And as MH pointed out, there are other ways to incorporate the read-option into an offensive game plan, which teams like NE and Green Bay have done. |
The Pats don't run a read option at all in the run formation and neither does Green Bay. Green Bay uses Cobb with some misdirection short passes which is the closest thing to Kelly doing with Mariotta and Barner. The Pats put Welker in the slot and throw him short passes hoping he can break one. Technically any time you have 2 backs in to protect the qb on passing downs when he is in a shotgun formation it could be called a read option. Landry used variations with Dorsett because Dorsett was so good on draw plays with Staubach in the shotgun.
Fans think all of this stuff is new. A two back pistol set is the old wing t formation. That is what the Skins do a lot of. The Niners run it a little different. The Niners run a veer pistol. The veer offense is one of the most basic of all offenses. In the nfl though it's imperative that you have a stud rb. Lynch, Gore and Morris are studs.
EDIT : To combat the Niners version I think you will see more delayed blitz packages next season . In their offense the wr's aren't running shallow crossing patterns. |
You need to read more carefully - I didn't say NE or GB use the read-option exclusively. What I said was that they have integrated elements of the read-option into their offensive approach. The read-option is also about spreading out defences with WRs and TEs to get mismatches and using a lot of short, quick passes to move the ball. Short crossing routes, as you have stated, are also a key element of this offence.
Agreed about the shotgun formation and RB draws. The difference with the read-option, though, is the placement of the RBs, who may line up behind or paralle to the QB as oppose to just in front. And of course, as you know, the big difference is having a QB that can also run.
The 49ers with Kaepernick have added more read-option elements into their offensive scheme. Also, they have added more crossing routes with Kaepernick than when Smith was under centre. The 49ers, though, aren't a pure read-option team since there are also WCO elements in their scheme.
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htfryar
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 8243
Location: Hot Springs, Arkansas
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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The fact remains that if Chip Kelly wants to run that offense, he is going to need 2 QB's. Assuming one of them is Vick, he will need to have someone for when Vick's annual injury pops up. Foles ain't a running QB. Someone needs to try to convince Kelly that Tebow can do it. I want Tebow in Philly. Make it happen Chip!
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MaddHatter
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 41471
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| htfryar wrote: | | The fact remains that if Chip Kelly wants to run that offense, he is going to need 2 QB's. Assuming one of them is Vick, he will need to have someone for when Vick's annual injury pops up. Foles ain't a running QB. Someone needs to try to convince Kelly that Tebow can do it. I want Tebow in Philly. Make it happen Chip! |
With the 4th overall pick, it's not that hard to see them getting Geno Smith in the 1st
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Ware Stat Tracker: 27 Pressures, 9 Hits, 10 sacks, 4 FF, 7 TFL (thru 8 games) |
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htfryar
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 8243
Location: Hot Springs, Arkansas
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| MaddHatter wrote: | | htfryar wrote: | | The fact remains that if Chip Kelly wants to run that offense, he is going to need 2 QB's. Assuming one of them is Vick, he will need to have someone for when Vick's annual injury pops up. Foles ain't a running QB. Someone needs to try to convince Kelly that Tebow can do it. I want Tebow in Philly. Make it happen Chip! |
With the 4th overall pick, it's not that hard to see them getting Geno Smith in the 1st |
I hope he does take Geno. I don't see him making it in the NFL.
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Matts4313
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 30412
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of 12
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Ace5 wrote: | | Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: | Dez and Cole are going at it on twitter.
Cole Beasley @Bease11
| Quote: | | @DezBryant u better score every time cause once I get the ball u won't get it back. Lol |
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The master has become the super master. Dez's days as lead dog are numbered. A glorious new utopia is nigh. Long live the Pax Colemana! |
Well, at least Cole let us have this for a year... before taking over the top spot.
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WizardHawk
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6943
Location: Hawkeye State
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
Former Cardinals HC Ken Whisenhunt will become offensive coordinator for the San Diego Chargers. |
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| MrDrew wrote: | | I'm pretty sure the cat destroys stuff because it hates you for shoving it in a box every night. |
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Football Mensa
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 621
Location: Texas via Louisiana and I love being Cajun...
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| TheStarStillShines wrote: | | Football Mensa wrote: | | TheStarStillShines wrote: | | Football Mensa wrote: | Star it can be stopped. Ware took the wrong approach vs the Skins. How many times did we not see a blocker on Ware and he just stood there ? Ryan should have had Ware blitzing when there wasn't a blocker on him and he should have hit the qb and rb at the same time. It disrupts every thing even if he doesn't make the tackle. Even if the qb keeps the ball and runs to Ware's side he will have to loop back to get around him which allows the lb's or db's to come up and tackle him.
There seemed to be a lot of read and react in Ryans d. That was one of my main issues with his d. In the 4-3 Ware will be moving forward every play. |
I'm not saying that the read-option is unstoppable. Rather, I'm saying it's not going to fall by the wayside like the Wildcat because the read-option has many more options available. And as MH pointed out, there are other ways to incorporate the read-option into an offensive game plan, which teams like NE and Green Bay have done. |
The Pats don't run a read option at all in the run formation and neither does Green Bay. Green Bay uses Cobb with some misdirection short passes which is the closest thing to Kelly doing with Mariotta and Barner. The Pats put Welker in the slot and throw him short passes hoping he can break one. Technically any time you have 2 backs in to protect the qb on passing downs when he is in a shotgun formation it could be called a read option. Landry used variations with Dorsett because Dorsett was so good on draw plays with Staubach in the shotgun.
Fans think all of this stuff is new. A two back pistol set is the old wing t formation. That is what the Skins do a lot of. The Niners run it a little different. The Niners run a veer pistol. The veer offense is one of the most basic of all offenses. In the nfl though it's imperative that you have a stud rb. Lynch, Gore and Morris are studs.
EDIT : To combat the Niners version I think you will see more delayed blitz packages next season . In their offense the wr's aren't running shallow crossing patterns. |
You need to read more carefully - I didn't say NE or GB use the read-option exclusively. What I said was that they have integrated elements of the read-option into their offensive approach. The read-option is also about spreading out defences with WRs and TEs to get mismatches and using a lot of short, quick passes to move the ball. Short crossing routes, as you have stated, are also a key element of this offence.
Agreed about the shotgun formation and RB draws. The difference with the read-option, though, is the placement of the RBs, who may line up behind or paralle to the QB as oppose to just in front. And of course, as you know, the big difference is having a QB that can also run.
The 49ers with Kaepernick have added more read-option elements into their offensive scheme. Also, they have added more crossing routes with Kaepernick than when Smith was under centre. The 49ers, though, aren't a pure read-option team since there are also WCO elements in their scheme. |
In reference to the bold....that is a staple of the run n shoot. See this was my fear. All of a sudden everyone is going to want to credit the read option for everything.The run n shoot along with the wco have been spreading defenses long before the read option suddenly became vogue. Look at the Packers. They spread defenses out using their version of the wco. Looking back you can appreciate how brilliant Landry and Walsh were.
I didn't say you said the Pack and Pats use it exclusively. I have more respect for you than that. I just find it amusing that people are now noticing that offenses are spreading out opposing defenses and now they want to credit the read option. That just isn't the case at all. The Pats have been carving up defenses for many years now. As they should because Brady is a master at it and they have been doing it with short passes to Welker running shallow patterns. Now that they have a power rb it makes them that much more dangerous. I love how BB goes for the throat. He will just keep bringing it and crush an opponents will in much the same fashion as Jimmy.
The Niners don't run many shallow crossing patterns. The Seahawks run more shallow crossing patterns than the Niners. The Niners are built better than any other team right now for the pistol. The pistol usually employs a zone blocking scheme. The Niners just man up and destroy the d lines because their guards are so good along with ot Joe Staley much like I wish we could do in Dallas. Too bad the gm never held o linemen in high regard.
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A circle. The direction the Cowboys continue to travel. |
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TheStarStillShines
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 8260
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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The run-and-shoot was about putting 4 WRs on the field and spreading them out. With the read-option, it's using TEs and RBs in different ways in order to create mismatches. For instance, you can have 2 TEs on the field, which forces the defence to go into a base formation. However, the TEs line up outside like wide receivers to spread the field and create either a mismatch in coverage (LB on an athletic TE) or leaving just 1 LB in the box to open up holes in the running game.
The evolution of the TE position has allowed teams to be really creative offensively. Yes, there are elements of the run-and-shoot, but a lot of teams are running out of these "spread" formations, especially if they have an athletic QB that can run and pass. That's the other key - the evolution (or re-evolution since there have been athletic QBs in the past) of the QB position.
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Football Mensa
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 621
Location: Texas via Louisiana and I love being Cajun...
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| TheStarStillShines wrote: | The run-and-shoot was about putting 4 WRs on the field and spreading them out. With the read-option, it's using TEs and RBs in different ways in order to create mismatches. For instance, you can have 2 TEs on the field, which forces the defence to go into a base formation. However, the TEs line up outside like wide receivers to spread the field and create either a mismatch in coverage (LB on an athletic TE) or leaving just 1 LB in the box to open up holes in the running game.
The evolution of the TE position has allowed teams to be really creative offensively. Yes, there are elements of the run-and-shoot, but a lot of teams are running out of these "spread" formations, especially if they have an athletic QB that can run and pass. That's the other key - the evolution (or re-evolution since there have been athletic QBs in the past) of the QB position. |
Reggie Collier was just way before his time....LOL
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A circle. The direction the Cowboys continue to travel. |
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Texas_OutLaw7
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 19344
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of '12
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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@mikejurecki | Quote: | | I was told Ray Horton had a heated exchange w/ Steve Keim, wanted out his contract. |
Come. To. Dallas!
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In Redball I Trust!
The price of progress is trusting the process.
Heart. Leadership. Passion. Will. |
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WizardHawk
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6943
Location: Hawkeye State
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: | @mikejurecki | Quote: | | I was told Ray Horton had a heated exchange w/ Steve Keim, wanted out his contract. |
Come. To. Dallas! |
And, do what?
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| MrDrew wrote: | | I'm pretty sure the cat destroys stuff because it hates you for shoving it in a box every night. |
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Kiltman
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 11017
Location: Flipadelphia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: | @mikejurecki | Quote: | | I was told Ray Horton had a heated exchange w/ Steve Keim, wanted out his contract. |
Come. To. Dallas! |
I am extremely happy this didn't happen a week ago
Chip reportedly is looking to switch to the 3-4....just sayin 
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canadaluvsdalla
Joined: 19 Jan 2011
Posts: 2992
Location: I state my opinion. You Listen. I won't change my stance.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| Kiltman wrote: | | Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: | @mikejurecki | Quote: | | I was told Ray Horton had a heated exchange w/ Steve Keim, wanted out his contract. |
Come. To. Dallas! |
I am extremely happy this didn't happen a week ago
Chip reportedly is looking to switch to the 3-4....just sayin |
*presses the spread option Romo offense button*
and.
| Quote: | | Just going to reiterate what I first reported earlier tonight. still sounds like Todd Bowles ends up in AZ and Ray Horton ends up in CLE |
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| Dez Bryant on 2000 Yard Season wrote: | | It's only going to get better, to be honest. I still have a lot to give. I feel like nobody's seen anything. Nothing. |
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Texas_OutLaw7
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 19344
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of '12
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:59 am Post subject: |
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Jason La Canfora @JasonLaCanfora
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Just going to reiterate what I first reported earlier tonight. still sounds like Todd Bowles ends up in AZ and Ray Horton ends up in CLE |
Quietly, the Browns are having a fantastic Off-Season.
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Heart. Leadership. Passion. Will. |
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