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Jaguars Name David Caldwell General Manager - No To Tebow
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JDJaguar


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

titanrick wrote:
iPwn wrote:
Clearly front offices agree with me. *shrug*

As I said, it's done. Time to move on, man. He's not coming to Jacksonville.


I hate to belabor the point, but when I heard the actual audio it didn't seem as clear-cut as what you (and every other Jags fan) make it sound. Caldwell's first comment right after the question is, "He's a New York Jet" which is code for, "Hey media - I'm not a moron. I'm not going to talk about someone who is under contract on another team." He does go on to say he can't envision a scenario, which is also easy to dismiss in the future - "Hey, who knew he'd be cut and we could have him for nothing?" Then, he throws in the "even if he's released" comment which is at least a little more definitive, but the other option ("Yeah, we'd take a look at him if he was released.") could be considered tampering. So it makes perfect sense why he tried to sound definitive.

Until I hear something from Khan himself, I don't think this story goes away. He's the guy with the money. He's the guy who knows how attendance would be affected with Tebow on the team. I understand Jags fans not wanting the circus to come to town, but it remains to be seen how long Khan can turn down the revenue and excitement that would surely follow for a majority of his fans.

The possible affect Tebow can have on attendance is overblown. Even if it was substantial, you don't get consistant fan attendance from band wagoners and the excitement would only be temporary. I'm sure Khan is smart enough to understand that the best way to increase attendance is putting a winning product on the field. I suspect part of Caldwell agreeing to become GM is the ability to decide whether or not to acquire Tebow.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDJaguar wrote:
titanrick wrote:
iPwn wrote:
Clearly front offices agree with me. *shrug*

As I said, it's done. Time to move on, man. He's not coming to Jacksonville.


I hate to belabor the point, but when I heard the actual audio it didn't seem as clear-cut as what you (and every other Jags fan) make it sound. Caldwell's first comment right after the question is, "He's a New York Jet" which is code for, "Hey media - I'm not a moron. I'm not going to talk about someone who is under contract on another team." He does go on to say he can't envision a scenario, which is also easy to dismiss in the future - "Hey, who knew he'd be cut and we could have him for nothing?" Then, he throws in the "even if he's released" comment which is at least a little more definitive, but the other option ("Yeah, we'd take a look at him if he was released.") could be considered tampering. So it makes perfect sense why he tried to sound definitive.

Until I hear something from Khan himself, I don't think this story goes away. He's the guy with the money. He's the guy who knows how attendance would be affected with Tebow on the team. I understand Jags fans not wanting the circus to come to town, but it remains to be seen how long Khan can turn down the revenue and excitement that would surely follow for a majority of his fans.

The possible affect Tebow can have on attendance is overblown. Even if it was substantial, you don't get consistant fan attendance from band wagoners and the excitement would only be temporary. I'm sure Khan is smart enough to understand that the best way to increase attendance is putting a winning product on the field. I suspect part of Caldwell agreeing to become GM is the ability to decide whether or not to acquire Tebow.


I'm inclined to believe this; Sure, people would initially show up out of loyalty to the guy with what he did in Gainesville...but after a few bad showings (which would be on the horizon for Timmy) and the buzz would die out quickly, and you're back to square one - only this time, you'd have taken a step backwards in terms of QB play (and that is saying a lot, given that Henne and Gabbert weren't exactly world beaters...)

Best bet is to start fresh with someone who isn't Tebow. Mayhaps work a deal out to get Matt Flynn? Not a flashy name, might catch some flack for being an LSU alumni, but a solid QB who can run an offense...
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tebow is not good enough to start and to famous as a celeb to be a back up.

He has to publicly say i want to switch positions and find a roster spot, or hes not going to be in the league next year.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

titanrick wrote:
iPwn wrote:
Clearly front offices agree with me. *shrug*

As I said, it's done. Time to move on, man. He's not coming to Jacksonville.


I hate to belabor the point, but when I heard the actual audio it didn't seem as clear-cut as what you (and every other Jags fan) make it sound. Caldwell's first comment right after the question is, "He's a New York Jet" which is code for, "Hey media - I'm not a moron. I'm not going to talk about someone who is under contract on another team." He does go on to say he can't envision a scenario, which is also easy to dismiss in the future - "Hey, who knew he'd be cut and we could have him for nothing?" Then, he throws in the "even if he's released" comment which is at least a little more definitive, but the other option ("Yeah, we'd take a look at him if he was released.") could be considered tampering. So it makes perfect sense why he tried to sound definitive.

Until I hear something from Khan himself, I don't think this story goes away. He's the guy with the money. He's the guy who knows how attendance would be affected with Tebow on the team. I understand Jags fans not wanting the circus to come to town, but it remains to be seen how long Khan can turn down the revenue and excitement that would surely follow for a majority of his fans.


So wait, you're going to tell me that he was so worried about tampering with Tim Tebow that he said "As far as Tim goes, he is a member of the New York Jets. I can't imagine a scenario where he would be a Jacksonville Jaguar. [reporter in the back says "Say that again."] I can't imaging a scenario where he would be a Jacksonville Jaguar. [reporter in front asks "Even if he's released?"] Even if he's released," but wasn't nearly as worried about tampering with one of his best friends, so he only said "he's under contract and I don't want to speak on that at the moment"? Because, remember, this press conference was during the week that the Jaguars would have been barred from speaking with Roman, and that sure sounded like the "let's not get me caught with tampering" answer. It makes absolutely no sense that he would give the definitive answer with Tebow, and not with Greg Roman if all he was doing with the Tebow answer was trying to avoid tampering.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
Best bet is to start fresh with someone who isn't Tebow. Mayhaps work a deal out to get Matt Flynn? Not a flashy name, might catch some flack for being an LSU alumni, but a solid QB who can run an offense...


Most of the speculation now is that Greg Roman would come over with Alex Smith, who is due $8 million next year and likely to be cut before his $1 million roster bonus is due in April. We'd then draft a mid-round guy this or next year to groom behind him/Blaine/Chad (whichever one wins the QB competition) for work in the pistol, similar to what the 49ers did with Kaepernick.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
Best bet is to start fresh with someone who isn't Tebow. Mayhaps work a deal out to get Matt Flynn? Not a flashy name, might catch some flack for being an LSU alumni, but a solid QB who can run an offense...


Most of the speculation now is that Greg Roman would come over with Alex Smith, who is due $8 million next year and likely to be cut before his $1 million roster bonus is due in April. We'd then draft a mid-round guy this or next year to groom behind him/Blaine/Chad (whichever one wins the QB competition) for work in the pistol, similar to what the 49ers did with Kaepernick.

As long as you don't steal Zac Dysert.
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JDJaguar


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

green24 wrote:
iPwn wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
Best bet is to start fresh with someone who isn't Tebow. Mayhaps work a deal out to get Matt Flynn? Not a flashy name, might catch some flack for being an LSU alumni, but a solid QB who can run an offense...


Most of the speculation now is that Greg Roman would come over with Alex Smith, who is due $8 million next year and likely to be cut before his $1 million roster bonus is due in April. We'd then draft a mid-round guy this or next year to groom behind him/Blaine/Chad (whichever one wins the QB competition) for work in the pistol, similar to what the 49ers did with Kaepernick.

As long as you don't steal Zac Dysert.


Unfortunately for you my friend, He is OURS!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
So wait, you're going to tell me that he was so worried about tampering with Tim Tebow that he said "As far as Tim goes, he is a member of the New York Jets. I can't imagine a scenario where he would be a Jacksonville Jaguar. [reporter in the back says "Say that again."] I can't imaging a scenario where he would be a Jacksonville Jaguar. [reporter in front asks "Even if he's released?"] Even if he's released," but wasn't nearly as worried about tampering with one of his best friends, so he only said "he's under contract and I don't want to speak on that at the moment"? Because, remember, this press conference was during the week that the Jaguars would have been barred from speaking with Roman, and that sure sounded like the "let's not get me caught with tampering" answer. It makes absolutely no sense that he would give the definitive answer with Tebow, and not with Greg Roman if all he was doing with the Tebow answer was trying to avoid tampering.


I hadn't heard the Roman comments. My point was that everyone (not just you guys - sports talk radio as well) was taking the comments as a closed door, never to be opened. But when I listened to them, they didn't sound as definitive as everyone made them seem. Obviously, he knows the question was coming and is clearly perturbed. But I wouldn't read disdain for Tebow into that - more of a "Let me do my job and quit asking about players on other teams" vibe. Maybe there's nothing to the interest. I guess I'll believe it when Tebow is playing for another team because Khan doesn't want him.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

titanrick wrote:
iPwn wrote:
So wait, you're going to tell me that he was so worried about tampering with Tim Tebow that he said "As far as Tim goes, he is a member of the New York Jets. I can't imagine a scenario where he would be a Jacksonville Jaguar. [reporter in the back says "Say that again."] I can't imaging a scenario where he would be a Jacksonville Jaguar. [reporter in front asks "Even if he's released?"] Even if he's released," but wasn't nearly as worried about tampering with one of his best friends, so he only said "he's under contract and I don't want to speak on that at the moment"? Because, remember, this press conference was during the week that the Jaguars would have been barred from speaking with Roman, and that sure sounded like the "let's not get me caught with tampering" answer. It makes absolutely no sense that he would give the definitive answer with Tebow, and not with Greg Roman if all he was doing with the Tebow answer was trying to avoid tampering.


I hadn't heard the Roman comments. My point was that everyone (not just you guys - sports talk radio as well) was taking the comments as a closed door, never to be opened. But when I listened to them, they didn't sound as definitive as everyone made them seem. Obviously, he knows the question was coming and is clearly perturbed. But I wouldn't read disdain for Tebow into that - more of a "Let me do my job and quit asking about players on other teams" vibe. Maybe there's nothing to the interest. I guess I'll believe it when Tebow is playing for another team because Khan doesn't want him.


Khan said he is stepping back and and is putting all football things into the hands of Caldwell, furthermore saying he won't get involved.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

titanrick wrote:
iPwn wrote:
So wait, you're going to tell me that he was so worried about tampering with Tim Tebow that he said "As far as Tim goes, he is a member of the New York Jets. I can't imagine a scenario where he would be a Jacksonville Jaguar. [reporter in the back says "Say that again."] I can't imaging a scenario where he would be a Jacksonville Jaguar. [reporter in front asks "Even if he's released?"] Even if he's released," but wasn't nearly as worried about tampering with one of his best friends, so he only said "he's under contract and I don't want to speak on that at the moment"? Because, remember, this press conference was during the week that the Jaguars would have been barred from speaking with Roman, and that sure sounded like the "let's not get me caught with tampering" answer. It makes absolutely no sense that he would give the definitive answer with Tebow, and not with Greg Roman if all he was doing with the Tebow answer was trying to avoid tampering.


I hadn't heard the Roman comments. My point was that everyone (not just you guys - sports talk radio as well) was taking the comments as a closed door, never to be opened. But when I listened to them, they didn't sound as definitive as everyone made them seem. Obviously, he knows the question was coming and is clearly perturbed. But I wouldn't read disdain for Tebow into that - more of a "Let me do my job and quit asking about players on other teams" vibe. Maybe there's nothing to the interest. I guess I'll believe it when Tebow is playing for another team because Khan doesn't want him.


The "even if he's released" part pretty much closes the door.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

titanrick wrote:
iPwn wrote:
So wait, you're going to tell me that he was so worried about tampering with Tim Tebow that he said "As far as Tim goes, he is a member of the New York Jets. I can't imagine a scenario where he would be a Jacksonville Jaguar. [reporter in the back says "Say that again."] I can't imaging a scenario where he would be a Jacksonville Jaguar. [reporter in front asks "Even if he's released?"] Even if he's released," but wasn't nearly as worried about tampering with one of his best friends, so he only said "he's under contract and I don't want to speak on that at the moment"? Because, remember, this press conference was during the week that the Jaguars would have been barred from speaking with Roman, and that sure sounded like the "let's not get me caught with tampering" answer. It makes absolutely no sense that he would give the definitive answer with Tebow, and not with Greg Roman if all he was doing with the Tebow answer was trying to avoid tampering.


I hadn't heard the Roman comments. My point was that everyone (not just you guys - sports talk radio as well) was taking the comments as a closed door, never to be opened. But when I listened to them, they didn't sound as definitive as everyone made them seem. Obviously, he knows the question was coming and is clearly perturbed. But I wouldn't read disdain for Tebow into that - more of a "Let me do my job and quit asking about players on other teams" vibe. Maybe there's nothing to the interest. I guess I'll believe it when Tebow is playing for another team because Khan doesn't want him.
Okay, so let's say what you're saying might be right. Let's say Khan wants him for, as you said, the "revenue and excitement that would surely follow for a majority of his fans," don't you think that talk comes up in the interview process? You said he knew the question was coming from the media, so he had to know that it needed to be a question to ask of Khan, right? Further, if Khan wanted Tebow, don't you think he would make sure his GM would put Tebow in the best position to succeed? So that would mean that Khan would be asking Caldwell about him as well, if, as claimed, Khan wants Tebow.

This guy was arguably the top candidate for a GM available and took the Jacksonville job over others, including the Jets job where he was offered $1 million in housing allowances on top of his salary. This isn't a guy who picked Jacksonville because it was his only opportunity, he picked Jacksonville because it was what he felt was the best fit. Do you really think he's going to pick Jacksonville if he's having a QB forced on him that he doesn't want? In fact, he liked the situation in Jacksonville so much, the only reason he even interviewed elsewhere is because Khan made him do so. Do you think a guy would be so set in his decision if it wasn't viewed as ideal?

So we're down to basically one possibility here that makes sense, if he were to in fact get Tebow. He must both like Tebow, and understand that the "revenue and excitement that would surely follow for a majority of his fans" is something Khan wants. So if this is the case, why would he be annoyed by the question, so as to answer in a definitive "I can't imagine a scenario where he would be a Jacksonville Jaguar, even if he's released"? If he's fully okay with bringing in Tebow, why would he be so upset as to answer that question entirely different than he answered the question about Roman?

And further, the deadline for season ticket renewal is before free agency. This means that the "Tebow fans" that will have less reason to renew tickets now. So why would he, on his first day, say something to alienate the fans that were going to bring this revenue that Khan is so interested in capturing? And to so do at such a poor time?

Literally nothing about that answer makes any sense if signing Tebow is still on the table. Unless you think on his first day on the job, both he and Khan decided to lie to the entire fan base for no other reason than to alienate the pro-Tebow revenue and to be known as dishonest when it comes to the media.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
And further, the deadline for season ticket renewal is before free agency. This means that the "Tebow fans" that will have less reason to renew tickets now. So why would he, on his first day, say something to alienate the fans that were going to bring this revenue that Khan is so interested in capturing? And to so do at such a poor time?


I'll be honest - this is a strong point I hadn't thought of. You risk alienating the Tebow fans with that answer and because of the timing of ticket renewals and FA, that doesn't sound like a good financial plan. Of course that bridge would be mended immediately if they decide to sign him. Is there a large contingent of Tebow crazies that are current season ticket holders only because they hope they sign him?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

titanrick wrote:
iPwn wrote:
And further, the deadline for season ticket renewal is before free agency. This means that the "Tebow fans" that will have less reason to renew tickets now. So why would he, on his first day, say something to alienate the fans that were going to bring this revenue that Khan is so interested in capturing? And to so do at such a poor time?


I'll be honest - this is a strong point I hadn't thought of. You risk alienating the Tebow fans with that answer and because of the timing of ticket renewals and FA, that doesn't sound like a good financial plan. Of course that bridge would be mended immediately if they decide to sign him. Is there a large contingent of Tebow crazies that are current season ticket holders only because they hope they sign him?
I don't know. Regardless, you're giving them less and less reason. And if they're more Tebow crazy than they are Jaguar crazy (because let's be honest, that's the only way they're going to be lured by Tebow in the first place), going 2-14 and being told that Tebow isn't coming here may very well be enough to keep them from renewing. At that point, they're much more likely to take up the money saved for the year to renew and put that into a big screen TV to watch Tebow on Sundays (or use it on whatever) than they are to save it for another two months on the off chance that the GM lied to them on his first day on the job.

And you don't want the Tebow crazies that aren't currently ticket holders to, for two months, be wasting the money they would have otherwise been saving for the "virtual certainty" of Tebow coming.

If the plan was to bring in Tebow for revenue, they've absolutely thrown away a portion of that revenue with that answer. And for what? What was to gain from that answer if they are still thinking about Tebow?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
And if they're more Tebow crazy than they are Jaguar crazy (because let's be honest, that's the only way they're going to be lured by Tebow in the first place)


Nobody goes Jaguar Crazy like Jaguar Crazy Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
If the plan was to bring in Tebow for revenue, they've absolutely thrown away a portion of that revenue with that answer. And for what? What was to gain from that answer if they are still thinking about Tebow?


On the surface, that's a solid point. There was nothing to gain by that answer if they are considering Tebow an option. The only possible explanation would be that Caldwell knew it would come up, didn't want to talk about it, gave his canned response, and then hastily added "even if he's released" when pressed further, simply to end the discussion as quickly as possible. But I admit that's a long-shot. You've defended your position well. Smile
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