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Tj Yates for 2013
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggio7 wrote:
What makes you think Yates is clutch though? If you want clutch, might as well get Tebow. Although, he got destroyed by the Pats last year.


I will dive into this tomorrow Im off to bed, gonna see if I can get "lucky" tonight Wink
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biggio7


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
biggio7 wrote:
What makes you think Yates is clutch though? If you want clutch, might as well get Tebow. Although, he got destroyed by the Pats last year.


I will dive into this tomorrow Im off to bed, gonna see if I can get "lucky" tonight Wink


Sounds good, I'm looking forward to it. Laughing
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texansfan


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not me. I am behind Schaub. Guy started out 5 for 9 with three brutal drops from Casey, OD, and Foster. That ball to Casey was perfect and would have been the ultimate way to start the game after that great KO return. He had some shaky moments, but I hardly think he was the reason for this loss.
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Wolf6151


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggio7 wrote:
What makes you think Yates is clutch though? If you want clutch, might as well get Tebow. Although, he got destroyed by the Pats last year.


I don't think anyone is saying Yates is great or clutch, we don't know, but we do know that Schaub is not and since Yates is already on the roster we'd like to see someone else get the chance. I can't think of one QB trait that Schaub has that Yates doesn't have with the exception of experience or triats that come from experience ie: reading defenses and coverages. Yates has better arm strength, definitely more mobile, more athletic, and I think he has more of that "it" factor that no one seems to be able to define. I think Yates is faster mentally, takes charge better in albeit a limited sampling, and shows more confidence.

I think if Brady were a Texan he'd still be sitting at the end of the bench as a 6th round draft pick because Kubiak has confidence in "his guy" and no one else will get a real chance.

Honestly, it doesn't really matter what we think. We just signed Schaub to a new contract and he's here for at least the next 3 yrs. regardless of what we think or say unless he's traded and that's highly unlikely. Let's just hope that we can fix the teams other deficiencies in the draft, NT, O-line, WR, ILB, and team depth.
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texans_uk


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Drew Bledsoe hadn't gotten injured, Brady would have likely sat on the Pats bench for several more years.
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DreDay80


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

texansfan wrote:
Not me. I am behind Schaub. Guy started out 5 for 9 with three brutal drops from Casey, OD, and Foster. That ball to Casey was perfect and would have been the ultimate way to start the game after that great KO return. He had some shaky moments, but I hardly think he was the reason for this loss.


And he started with an absolutely HORRIFIC throw to a WIDE OPEN AJ in the endzone. Seriously, you guys need to watch that again Tebow would of made that throw.

I blame Schaub just as much as Kubiak though. The run game clearly isn't working and all it did was kill drives and you think it's smart to keep doing it? I know you should keep them guessing but the passing game was working and then you decide to get cute and call a run on first down and boom, drive over. I also don't know how you go basically a quarter and a half before you target AJ....It's the biggest game of the season you need to target AJ more than 11 times.

This might sound crazy but Danieal Manning deserves blame as well. He HAS to take that opening kickoff return to the house. You can't run out of gas in the postseason. He was also missing tackles left and right this game.

Brandon Harris? No explanation, you suck.
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ugh. This again.

I get it that we're all down on Matt Schaub, and rightfully so. However, what in the hell has TJ Yates shown to make you believe that he would be some great upgrade over Matt? THAT is what we're looking for, not just a bunch of the same stuff - we need someone MUCH better at the QB spot, not just the same guy wearing #13.

People want to say TJ Yates has a stronger arm, that's fine. Not too hard to believe when your current starting QB doesn't have that strong of an arm to begin with. People want to say that TJ Yates is more mobile, fine. Not too hard to believe when your current starting QB doesn't have great mobility. You knew going into the season that Matt Schaub never had a terribly strong arm, or great mobility...so beating him in those two aspects of his game means nothing at this stage, and doesn't represent some massive find that this coaching staff doesn't know.

The reason Matt Schaub is a starter in the NFL (AND MAKE NO BONES ABOUT IT, EVEN IF WE CUT THE GUY HE WOULD FIND A STARTING GIG IN ABOUT 20 MINUTES) is because he's a smart QB who can read a defense well, and make accurate throws into tight windows with some great touch. Say what you want about his arm strength, the guy gets it to where only his WR can get the ball, and throws a very catchable ball. Those things - smarts, touch, accuracy - TJ Yates simply doesn't have, and that was on display in his starts in 2011 as well as his poor preseason showing. Guy either throws a fastball that is high and wide from his intended target, or throws a fastball that is at his intended targets' feet. Can he improve? Probably, but does anyone have the time or patience to let him develop those skills when this team is ready to compete now? I know I don't.

The closer we can get to the realization that the Franchise QB of this team might not be on this roster, the closer we can get to expecting that turning of the corner from "competitive in the NFL" to "elite in the NFL." TJ Yates has his strengths, but also has his weaknesses, and his weaknesses are far greater than his strengths. Same can be said about Matt Schaub. If we go with TJ Yates, we don't improve. We tread water, we exchange a set of strengths and weaknesses for another set of strengths and weaknesses. Instead of seeing short, accurate passes that lead to nothing...we see hard, inaccurate passes that lead to nothing.

To save this village, we have to burn it down...and by burning it down, we have to bring in ACTUAL competition, not just someone we drafted with few expectations. Someone who has an eye for reading a D and knowing when to take something off of passes, while having a pretty strong arm and good mobility. The best of both worlds, to be brutally honest.

There is a QB out there that embodies both, and we have to take time and effort to identify that guy. There is no quick fix, and the quicker folks can realize that, the better off we are as a fanbase.
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
It proves I have an eye for talent....


If you're advocating for TJ Yates, I seriously question whether or not your "eye for talent" is at 20/20. Might wanna look into some Lasik, bro. Very Happy

I am all for a change, but not unless it is for someone who represents a SIGNIFICANT upgrade. Not just a trade off from some tangible advantages, at the expense of some intangible advantages. I couldn't care less if Yates is faster or has a stronger arm, because he's not adept at reading a defense, throws with horrid accuracy and doesn't know when to take some heat off of his short to medium passes, the passes that our offense lives and dies by.

Look at some of the younger QBs now - Russell Wilson and RG III, to be specific. Yes, both are mobile and yes, both have strong arms...but look at the accuracy both display, look at the touch that both have when throwing the ball. THAT is what makes 'em great in the NFL; They throw catchable passes that a WR doesn't have to break stride for, just drops them into a space. That last TD pass that Wilson threw to Zach Miller is EXACTLY what I'm talking about - just a soft raindrop into space, where Miller just has to get hands on it to catch it. That isn't a talent that you can develop overnight, and it's something that Yates doesn't display. Yates throws the ball as if he's at a carnival trying to knock down a bunch of bottles and win a stuffed animal - just rips the hell out of the ball. That's fine in spots, but not ALL the time.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peyton Manning & Aaron Rodgers did more to cost their teams games this weekend than Schaub did ours. Since we last engaged this topic we have learned that Tom Brady is better than Schaub while playing in Foxboro in January. Guess what - he is now the best EVER in the playoffs! Matt Ryan got lucky yesterday. Luck, Dalton and even RG3 were BAD last weekend and Ponder couldn't answer the bell. Ben, Eli, Brees, Romo, Rivers, Newton, Palmer, Freeman, Cutler and a dozen other QBs didn't get there.

The Texans are simply not as good as the Patriots and need to take steps to narrow further the gap, including figuring out how to get in Brady's face up the middle which is the one proven way to disrupt him. We also need offensive tools better than Posey/Jean/Martin/Casey, and viable Right Tackle and for Kubiak to figure out how to call plays in the red zone that actually have a prayer of working. Where is our James Jones, Golden Tate, Torrey Smith, Erik Decker opposite the #1 as there aren't a ton of teams that make it to the division round of the playoffs without at least one really good corner? Friggin Belicheck just stores up weapons and unleashes them like they're some big surprise, but remind me how many 2nd rounders we just have stashed on our bench? We know Schaub needs to get better as well, especially in knowing when he has to make things happen vs. just throwing balls away and the hurry up offense has been abysmal since day 1 under Kubiak but Schaub also sucks at it. Any TJ Yates talk is just kneejerk garbage. Schaub was good enough yesterday to beat the 2011 Ravens while Yates was a joke.
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Dawgtx


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
Peyton Manning & Aaron Rodgers did more to cost their teams games this weekend than Schaub did ours. Since we last engaged this topic we have learned that Tom Brady is better than Schaub while playing in Foxboro in January. Guess what - he is now the best EVER in the playoffs! Matt Ryan got lucky yesterday. Luck, Dalton and even RG3 were BAD last weekend and Ponder couldn't answer the bell. Ben, Eli, Brees, Romo, Rivers, Newton, Palmer, Freeman, Cutler and a dozen other QBs didn't get there.

The Texans are simply not as good as the Patriots and need to take steps to narrow further the gap, including figuring out how to get in Brady's face up the middle which is the one proven way to disrupt him. We also need offensive tools better than Posey/Jean/Martin/Casey, and viable Right Tackle and for Kubiak to figure out how to call plays in the red zone that actually have a prayer of working. Where is our James Jones, Golden Tate, Torrey Smith, Erik Decker opposite the #1 as there aren't a ton of teams that make it to the division round of the playoffs without at least one really good corner? Friggin Belicheck just stores up weapons and unleashes them like they're some big surprise, but remind me how many 2nd rounders we just have stashed on our bench? We know Schaub needs to get better as well, especially in knowing when he has to make things happen vs. just throwing balls away and the hurry up offense has been abysmal since day 1 under Kubiak but Schaub also sucks at it. Any TJ Yates talk is just kneejerk garbage. Schaub was good enough yesterday to beat the 2011 Ravens while Yates was a joke.


My sentiments exactly. Schaub is what he is....and what that is, is better than 65-75% than most of the other QB's out there. Granted, he is no Brady, Manning, or Rodgers....but there are very few of them out there. So you have to improve all the other phases, and give him tools to succeed.
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super_dude3608


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000126488/article/gary-kubiak-matt-schaub-is-houston-texans-qb

Anybody on the Yate's bandwagon better be hoping for a new head coach, too. And after the best season ever record-wise for the franchise, the odds don't look good of that being anytime soon. That's the way Kubiak and co. has always been; good enough to keep their jobs, never looking confident enough to be a champion.
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AntiSuperstar


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DreDay80 wrote:
I blame Schaub just as much as Kubiak though. The run game clearly isn't working and all it did was kill drives and you think it's smart to keep doing it? I know you should keep them guessing but the passing game was working and then you decide to get cute and call a run on first down and boom, drive over. I also don't know how you go basically a quarter and a half before you target AJ....It's the biggest game of the season you need to target AJ more than 11 times.


Why is it that you don't blame any players for the failure of the running game and just knock Kubiak for sticking with it?
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kenney


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dawgtx wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
Peyton Manning & Aaron Rodgers did more to cost their teams games this weekend than Schaub did ours. Since we last engaged this topic we have learned that Tom Brady is better than Schaub while playing in Foxboro in January. Guess what - he is now the best EVER in the playoffs! Matt Ryan got lucky yesterday. Luck, Dalton and even RG3 were BAD last weekend and Ponder couldn't answer the bell. Ben, Eli, Brees, Romo, Rivers, Newton, Palmer, Freeman, Cutler and a dozen other QBs didn't get there.

The Texans are simply not as good as the Patriots and need to take steps to narrow further the gap, including figuring out how to get in Brady's face up the middle which is the one proven way to disrupt him. We also need offensive tools better than Posey/Jean/Martin/Casey, and viable Right Tackle and for Kubiak to figure out how to call plays in the red zone that actually have a prayer of working. Where is our James Jones, Golden Tate, Torrey Smith, Erik Decker opposite the #1 as there aren't a ton of teams that make it to the division round of the playoffs without at least one really good corner? Friggin Belicheck just stores up weapons and unleashes them like they're some big surprise, but remind me how many 2nd rounders we just have stashed on our bench? We know Schaub needs to get better as well, especially in knowing when he has to make things happen vs. just throwing balls away and the hurry up offense has been abysmal since day 1 under Kubiak but Schaub also sucks at it. Any TJ Yates talk is just kneejerk garbage. Schaub was good enough yesterday to beat the 2011 Ravens while Yates was a joke.


My sentiments exactly. Schaub is what he is....and what that is, is better than 65-75% than most of the other QB's out there. Granted, he is no Brady, Manning, or Rodgers....but there are very few of them out there. So you have to improve all the other phases, and give him tools to succeed.


That's all well and good, but this isn't 15 years ago. You cannot win long-term unless your QB is the best player on your team. If we just shrug our shoulders and accept that Schaub is our QB, then we are essentially giving up on contending for the next two or three seasons.

Game management at quarterback is not acceptable in today's NFL.
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mse326


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
DreDay80 wrote:
I blame Schaub just as much as Kubiak though. The run game clearly isn't working and all it did was kill drives and you think it's smart to keep doing it? I know you should keep them guessing but the passing game was working and then you decide to get cute and call a run on first down and boom, drive over. I also don't know how you go basically a quarter and a half before you target AJ....It's the biggest game of the season you need to target AJ more than 11 times.


Why is it that you don't blame any players for the failure of the running game and just knock Kubiak for sticking with it?


We've been pretty vocal about needing a new right tackle. We aren't harping on it here because it's bascially a given at this point from everything we've seen that running right doesn't work. Yet he continues to call it overwhelmingly in big spots.

There was also a stat in another thread that said this season on 1st and goal from the 6-10 we ran EVERY time. It's increasingly difficult to run block when everyone knows you are running.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
DreDay80 wrote:
I blame Schaub just as much as Kubiak though. The run game clearly isn't working and all it did was kill drives and you think it's smart to keep doing it? I know you should keep them guessing but the passing game was working and then you decide to get cute and call a run on first down and boom, drive over. I also don't know how you go basically a quarter and a half before you target AJ....It's the biggest game of the season you need to target AJ more than 11 times.


Why is it that you don't blame any players for the failure of the running game and just knock Kubiak for sticking with it?


I actually lay significant "blame" at the feet of Kubiak for his stubborn overusage of Foster that directly impacted the late season fade and acknowledge that he rightfully can point to Ben Tate's inconsistency and inability to play on far too many Sundays as a contributing factor. I think one of the critical lessons learned this year is that we MUST evolve to a 2-3 back offense and that decisions in September and October can impact play in January. I'm going to keep going back to Belichick for a while, but there were games in the middle of the season where he specifically got Shane Vareen involved and you can see how prepared he was to step up when duty called. Meanwhile, Ben Tate didn't see the field against New England and got 2 carries in the Cinn game (Forsett didn't touch the ball either). Fact is Kubiak's overuse of Foster (over 400 carries including post-season) will likely impact us in 2013 if history is any guide and it is imperative that we treat backup RB as a priority item concurrently planning for how to better pace our RB usage next year and also be prepared should Arian go down for the season in week 5.
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