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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1416
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
Here's a video of McFaddens runs against the Broncos last year. Will try get a few more of last years games up.

https://vimeo.com/52179757


Great video thanks Raidin!

It's easier to see that McFadden is much more at home taking the handoff and making an instant decision to hit the hole or bounce outside, I'm thinking he simply doesn't have the patience and vision for a ZBS, more an instict runner. Marcus Allen is the type of back ideally suited to the ZBS, patient and really aware of the space and timing whereas McFadden i feel is instinctual. Of course this year the blocking has really been below par aswell.

Coop really impressed with some great blocks and Barnes looks very solid (in the run game at least). The main differnece for me was that even when Denver crowded the line and there are no holes, because the linemen are blocking vertically McFadden can drive in right behind or between them and make 3 or 4 yards, whereas in the ZBS because he is moving laterally the plays are always susceptible to penetration and tackles behind the LoS.
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bzane


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 632
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
bzane wrote:
Raidin wrote:
G wrote:
YUCK!!!
I couldn't keep watching and if were keeping this ZBS, then I'd see what we can get for Wiz and JV. Two young talented power players last year that should have some value.
Personally I'd rather get rid of the ZBS but I doubt that happens. So draft a bunch of ZBS types and steal a FA or 3 from other ZBS teams.



Wiz problem seems to be the switch to centre. He's just getting man handled by the bigger tackles unless he's getting help.


Can I ask something about Stefan Wisniewski, as a fan who does not get to watch the Raiders much?

Last year, in his rookie season, it seemed like he was doing really well, as a guard, and the plan was to move him back to his college position, center, where he would do even better.

I remember reading about him as a prospect coming out of college, and the consensus was that he was a skilled technician (well-schooled by his father) and a big-effort guy; if there was any criticism of Wisniewski, is that he was undersized and underpowered. Perhaps not big enough nor strong enough to take on NFL-sized defensive tackles one-on-one.

What I'm reading this year seems to bear out the knocks held against him before he was drafted. Unlikely that Wisniewski will get any bigger or stronger- no one claimed he had a frame with room to grow- so: what are the long-term projections for Stefan Wisniewski?


Perhaps Wiz is what the scouts thought he was?

He was considered a reach by most evaluators when he was drafted and in reality the only thing Wiz really showed was promise as he had a poor statistical season that would be typical of a rookie. I like Wiz but he is more revelled for his caricature rather than his actual production. I was one of the few who always wanted to see wiz at C. Imo, his upside is limited and he will have to make his career as an ZBS OC.

If he can stay healthy I believe Wiz can be a slight upgrade over Satele physically but can also be a valuable asset to young signal caller. Again, just a hunch but I believe Wiz 1.0 resigned because he whiffed on Bergs and Wiz has learned everything he can from his Pro-Bowl Uncle. Maybe Wiz 2.0 is just solid. For me that's enough.


Wow, an insightful and informative analysis, there!

Thanks for the answer. That sort of information and opinion is the best thing about this website- there are knowledgeable fans who can clear things up for you.

(My apologies to everyone, I thought that Steven Wisniewski was the father. I see that he's Stefan's uncle. Thanks for the correction)
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5674
Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Here's a video of McFaddens runs against the Broncos last year. Will try get a few more of last years games up.

https://vimeo.com/52179757


Great video thanks Raidin!

It's easier to see that McFadden is much more at home taking the handoff and making an instant decision to hit the hole or bounce outside, I'm thinking he simply doesn't have the patience and vision for a ZBS, more an instict runner. Marcus Allen is the type of back ideally suited to the ZBS, patient and really aware of the space and timing whereas McFadden i feel is instinctual. Of course this year the blocking has really been below par aswell.

Coop really impressed with some great blocks and Barnes looks very solid (in the run game at least). The main differnece for me was that even when Denver crowded the line and there are no holes, because the linemen are blocking vertically McFadden can drive in right behind or between them and make 3 or 4 yards, whereas in the ZBS because he is moving laterally the plays are always susceptible to penetration and tackles behind the LoS.



About 3:17 in the clip his biggest play in the Denver game came off a ZB type play where the OL moved laterally across the field and McFadden waited for the hole and cut back into it.

The big difference I see if how thin the line between success and failure is, and if that one guy doesn't make the block then it's huge. 1:40 in that Broncos video and McFadden gets a big 20 yard run after Reese makes a block to allow McFadden free. In the falcons game (https://vimeo.com/52008455) at 4:08 similar situation but Reese whiffs on the block and it turns into a one or two yard loss.
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1416
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Here's a video of McFaddens runs against the Broncos last year. Will try get a few more of last years games up.

https://vimeo.com/52179757


Great video thanks Raidin!

It's easier to see that McFadden is much more at home taking the handoff and making an instant decision to hit the hole or bounce outside, I'm thinking he simply doesn't have the patience and vision for a ZBS, more an instict runner. Marcus Allen is the type of back ideally suited to the ZBS, patient and really aware of the space and timing whereas McFadden i feel is instinctual. Of course this year the blocking has really been below par aswell.

Coop really impressed with some great blocks and Barnes looks very solid (in the run game at least). The main differnece for me was that even when Denver crowded the line and there are no holes, because the linemen are blocking vertically McFadden can drive in right behind or between them and make 3 or 4 yards, whereas in the ZBS because he is moving laterally the plays are always susceptible to penetration and tackles behind the LoS.



About 3:17 in the clip his biggest play in the Denver game came off a ZB type play where the OL moved laterally across the field and McFadden waited for the hole and cut back into it.

The big difference I see if how thin the line between success and failure is, and if that one guy doesn't make the block then it's huge. 1:40 in that Broncos video and McFadden gets a big 20 yard run after Reese makes a block to allow McFadden free. In the falcons game (https://vimeo.com/52008455) at 4:08 similar situation but Reese whiffs on the block and it turns into a one or two yard loss.


You're quite correct, there is such a small difference between a 1 yd gain or loss and 20+ yds. TBH that kinda gives me hope for this current system in that if we can get some more cohesiveness and turn a missed block here and there into a solid block the lanes will open up. So much easier to see from veiwing the game film a couple times.............. as opposed to trying to remember what happened during the game when you've trying to watch every facet of play.

Suprised after re-watching that we ran quite a few zone type plays where we are going laterally and looking for cut lanes.
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1416
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good video (though not sure about the Eagles soundtrack) breaking down a DMac run against the Jags........good block by Briesel in particular but Mcfadden has already made up his mind where he is going before Briesel can lay the block

http://www.raiders1.ninjagoro.com/2012/impatient-mcfadden-run-01-v-jaguars-week-07/
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5674
Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was busy the last few months so didn't have time to update this. Have a few weeks off now so will get this finished and might then do a few other bits as well for season review.

Vs Jags
https://vimeo.com/55976178


Here's two blog posts about plays vs the chiefs, excellent blog and well worth bookmarking

http://www.raiders1.ninjagoro.com/2012/the-evolving-run-game-and-some-interesting-plays-v-chiefs-week-15/

http://www.raiders1.ninjagoro.com/2012/mike-goodsons-cutback-run-v-chiefs-week-15/
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early43


Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1177
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After watching the SF vs. SEA game, im curious if there is different versions/ methods of the ZBS?

SEA oline for the most part, all seem to engage dline at once while also moving laterally and attack different levels of the defense.

We, for the most part, seem to never engage the opposing dline and typically seem to be just running laterally. The end result is usually dlinemen clogging the running lanes and LB's making the tackles agaisnt us.

Now im not saying this is how I see it on every running play but its what I tend to notice the most. I could be wrong and am just not seeing the whole play develope. Is this have more to do with our coaches asking our players to do something different than other ZB teams? Or are we just watching below average players trying to perform in a scheme that doenst fit their playing styles?
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5674
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vs Saints
https://vimeo.com/56285929

vs Bucs
https://vimeo.com/56288301

vs Bengals
https://vimeo.com/56300945
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Dreadymatt


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 1039
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

who was our OL coach last year (along with wiz)? Any idea if they'd return, or are they in too good employment elsewhere?
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dawsonleery


Joined: 31 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Wylie was Raiders O-line coach under Hue Jackson. He was out of the NFL in 2012.
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Dreadymatt


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 1039
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dawsonleery wrote:
Bob Wylie was Raiders O-line coach under Hue Jackson. He was out of the NFL in 2012.


lets bring Bob back here, he had the old line working well
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mastayetti


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 1753
Location: The SDL
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaiderX wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
i wonder if wiz 1.0 not coaching the o-line anymore is a reason for the slump?


Doubtful. He was only an assistant. I think Bob Wylie was a pretty good OLine coach last year though.


IIRC I believe that Wylie runs an Oline camp in the offseasons for coaches and teaches them about blocking and how to get the most out of the lineman.

I believe I heard bill B in NE attends this camp every year, and Im sure a few other HC's do too.

Guy seemed like a great Oline coach, wonder why he didn't coach last year, id be all for bringing him back.
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