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Bills Hire Mike Pettine as DC
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BigBillsFan13


Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 16381
Location: So Cal
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TommyC376 wrote:
BigBillsFan13 wrote:
NIKEJWN wrote:
cdavls17 wrote:
Jarvis jones getting 5 years is good enough how many players on this team have actually lasted longer then 5 years? The bills need answers now and taking Milliner over Jones would be a mistake. Selecting a CB in 2011 draft with a 2nd rd pick and then 1st rd in 2012 and now wasting another 1st rd on a cb is just ridiculous. LBs are the weakest part of this defense. Bills can bring in a FA CB to compliment Gilmore.


I dont disagree with you one bit here, but we are also very bad in the secondary. I did not see any progress from Williams or Rodgers in year 2. I think if Millner they feel can be that guy they need to take him. I would not be against taking any of them personally as I feel like he or the two LBs would help immediatley. I think we need to add some experience to CB position maybe look at the free agent market for that.

Plus, as TK said, Jones will be gone. If we want him that bad we'll have to trade up for him, possibly as high as 2... And I'm not willing to pay that price for a short term LB.
Stocks rise and fall all the time. It wouldnt surprise me if he fell to us. It also wouldnt surprise me if he went in the top 3.

As of right now I have him going #2 to JAX, but 5 of the top 7 teams could take him, with KC and PHI being the only ones I see passing for bigger needs. You're absolutely right about stocks, but I just don't see his falling enough to get to us.
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OffseasonChamps


Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 224
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Players like Archie Manning and Chris Samuels had lengthy careers with spinal stenosis. Jarvis Jones could have a fine career and this condition may not present itself as a barrier.

This article appears to indicate that about 1/3 of players have spinal stenosis:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2252092
So it's fairly common.

This article discusses treatment outcomes from surgical procedures and indicates that position which has the worst outcome are defensive backs:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/741729
So there are treatments that are effective.

My opinion, it sounds worse than it is. These reports come out about high profile prospects this time of year to affect draft status, to get a player drafted higher or lower than another...and it's probably coming from Manti Te'o Very Happy
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marshawn lynch


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't mind a front of

DE: Mario Williams
NT: Kyle Williams
DE: Marcel Dareus
OLB: Shawne Merriman/Jarvis Jones
ILB: Nick Barnett / Nigel Bradham
ILB: Kelvin Sheppard
OLB: Mark Anderson
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jsnydes


Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 1643
Location: Bethlehem PA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marshawn lynch wrote:
I wouldn't mind a front of

DE: Mario Williams
NT: Kyle Williams
DE: Marcel Dareus
OLB: Shawne Merriman/Jarvis Jones
ILB: Nick Barnett / Nigel Bradham
ILB: Kelvin Sheppard
OLB: Mark Anderson


I think Nigel Bradham is athletic enough to play outside also. We need to find a way to get this kid on the field.
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marshawn lynch


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel we are in a weird situation. I feel that our dline is better suited for a 4-3 while our Lbers are better suited for the 3-4. Pettine mixing it up may be exactly what we need.
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bigbadbuff23835


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Nick Barnett is anywhere near our starting lineup again next year. Then something is seriously wrong.
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swolfdab


Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigbadbuff23835 wrote:
If Nick Barnett is anywhere near our starting lineup again next year. Then something is seriously wrong.


I don't agree. I have to think a move back to the 34 would do nothing but good for him. He struggled this year, at times, but he is still the talented LB we paid for back in 2011.
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Yibbyl


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
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Location: Redding, CA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, with our new DC, it looks like we will probably be moving back to the 3-4. I have mixed feelings about this. I'd much rather we ran the 3-4, but I sure didn't want to switch defensive schemes again. Anyway, I posted a version of this in the Wish List thread a while back (starters in bold)...I've updated it to look like I'd do it (at least this year). That's 27 defensive players, not counting a punter and Garrison, our LS/LB, so a few guys would have to be cut.

.....................Silva/McKelvin...........Searcy........................
............................or..........................or............................
..........................Byrd....................Wilson..........................


...........Moats.........Barnett...........Lloyd............????/White..........
..............or................or..................or......................or............
........Anderson........????..........Sheppard..........Bradham..........


Rogers/Heath.....Ross.............????..........Carrington....A. Williams/Butler
......or...................or..................or...................or......................or......
Gilmore.......K. Williams.......Dareus.......M. Williams.......????/Brooks

I'd let FA's Spenser Johnson, Shawne Merriman, Kyle Moore, & Bryan Scott go. I never understood using Kyle Williams as a NT a few years ago. Dareus makes more sense to me and putting Kyle in on the end allows for the occasional QB pressure. I started Wilson, but maybe Searcy would be better, given how Wilson took a step backwards this year. There's no way I'd start Barnett, so we'd have to find a starting ILB...maybe Te'o, maybe Skov? Bradham is a little light for me on the strong side, but I figured Anderson is used to playing on the right and probably would work out well over there. Bradham also really doesn't have many (any?) pass rushing moves, though he is fast...maybe the moves will come with more coaching. Bradham also could be moved into a depth position as this draft has quite a few options for 3-4 OLB's. I'd also like to go after Cox from the Jaguars to start in place of Brooks. I have no idea what is available for a backup NT in the draft as I didn't expect to have to even look for one until Pettine's hire.
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bigbadbuff23835


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swolfdab wrote:
bigbadbuff23835 wrote:
If Nick Barnett is anywhere near our starting lineup again next year. Then something is seriously wrong.


I don't agree. I have to think a move back to the 34 would do nothing but good for him. He struggled this year, at times, but he is still the talented LB we paid for back in 2011.


Not sure if serious. I may hate Barnett more than Fitzy as a player. That's sayin somethin. This dude is awful at pass coverage. And I cant recall any run stops that weren't 7 yards past the line of scrimmage.
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BillsGuy82


Joined: 16 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marshawn lynch wrote:
I wouldn't mind a front of

DE: Mario Williams
NT: Kyle Williams
DE: Marcel Dareus
OLB: Shawne Merriman/Jarvis Jones
ILB: Nick Barnett / Nigel Bradham
ILB: Kelvin Sheppard
OLB: Mark Anderson


I'm not sure about Mario Williams and that's crappy LB core.
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Billsmesooner


Joined: 01 Apr 2012
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have to be in the minority here. The roster is much better suited to a 3-4 and we don't need Jones/Moore or any other DE as the current Tackles play like Ends. Just ask Tom Brady. He's on record as listing Kyle Williams as the priority when preparing for the Bills and it's not due to a concern for his Linemen in the run game. It's for his personal safety. Dareus also gets into the backfield. He had one of the poorer strength results at his combine (24 reps) but excelled with the 5th best 40 time and his 10 yd split was faster than 3rd place finisher Nick Fairley. I'm sure he's gotten stronger since but it shows his superior natural athletic ability. The advantage these guys have isn't brute force, it's quickness and technical prowess. Even if they are the run stuffers many of you believe imagine planting Hankins/Jenkins between them. Try running through that. And don't give me the argument they're too big. Pettine could tell you himself what a monster Wilkerson was for him in that role at 315 lbs. As for Mario being unhappy, his stated reason for choosing Buffalo was to work with a penetrating interior that flushes out QBs. With a rock NT occupying 2 blockers Kyle and Marcell will be an absolute wrecking crew and the team needs that anchor for 3rd-and-short and goal-line stands anyway. LB improves here as well. They were better in 2011 than this year's 4-3. Hankins 8th overall or trade down for Jenkins/Jesse Williams. (How that for a Williams Wall?) Top 10 defense right there before any other moves.
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AnafiWhat


Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Posts: 35
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the move to Pettine as DC overall, and think that a more aggressive defense is the most logical approach in today's NFL.

That being said, this team is more than a little light on LB's to run a 3-4, but I also think that's kind of a good thing. I'm sure Pettine won't run a base 3-4 all the time, and I'm guessing if he's not an idiot (and he doesn't seem to be after listening to him) he won't, but it really doesn't take that much to turn it into a defense that can run both systems, along with some 4-6.

The key is the linebackers. The object of this defense is to disguise where the blitz, or pass rush, is coming from, and hence confuse the opposition. With such a weak linebacking core, we need to make additions, at least 2, if not 3 new players. I think optimally we're talking signing two free agents, and drafting one other.

I think Bradham, Moats, Sheppard, and Barnett are all better off as depth players. Some, like Moats, and maybe Bradham, are better served as backup 3-4 OLB guys, while Sheppard and Barnett are probably better suited inside in a 3-4. But they should be backups nonetheless

In the draft, I would love to see us get Jarvis Jones, but I doubt he'll be there. If there was a way we could make a deal with maybe St. Louis (our 1st and 2nd OR 3rd rounder in exchange for their 2 1st's, maybe they really like someone at OT, OG or WR), we could move down, still get a QB like Nassib or whoever falls to 16, and get a linebacker in the 20's (preferably Ogeltree, his atheltic ability and pass coverage ability as a linebacker is extremely intriguing).

After that you'd look to Free agency. If you had a guy like Ogeltree on the outside, then it gets a lot easier. On the inside I'd be willing to take a shot at Detroit's Justin Durant. He could play outside or inside in the 4-3, and inside in the 3-4 when they use it. He's athletic enough and stout enough to handle blockers if rushing the passer. Two others I would look at in free agency are Manny Lawson and Parys Haralson (if he is a cap cut, which I expect he will be). Lawson has played in the 3-4, Haralson still plays in one, and both are bigger bodied OLB's that can play OLB in either the 3-4 or 4-3.

After that I think the defensive line could use a couple signings. If they got Mike DeVito from the Jets bc of his work with Pettine, that'd be nice, he could show these guys how to work the defense and wouldn't break the bank. Another guy like that would be Aubrayo Franklin, who could line up at the nose in 3-4 situation.

In terms of DB's, re-signing Byrd is key, but they also need to get another corner across from Gilmore, and start to get max potential out of their other guys. I think Pettine can do this, but I have a feeling they'll go after DRC because his cousin will tell him how good of a job Pettine did with him after Revis went down this season, which is true. I think at SS Wilson and Searcy will be left to battle it out.

If this were to happen, the Bills defense could look a lot nicer on paper...


4-3 set-up:
LDE-M.Williams/A.Carrington
DT- K.Williams/M.DeVito*
DT- M.Dareus/A.Franklin*
RDE-M.Anderson/K.Moore
OLB-A.Ogeltree*/N.Barnett
MLB-J.Durant*/K.Sheppard
OLB-P.Haralson*/N.Bradham
CB1-S.Gilmore/J.Rogers
CB2-D.R.Cromartie*/A.Williams
FS-J.Byrd/D.Searcy
SS-G.Wilson/D.Searcy

3-4 set-up:
LDE-K.Williams/M.Devito*
NT-M.Dareus/A.Franklin*
RDE-M.Williams/M.Dareus/A.Carrington
OLB-P.Haralson*/M.Williams/N.Bradham
ILB-A.Ogeltree*/K.Sheppard
ILB-J.Durant*/N.Barnett
OLB-M.Anderson/K.Moore
CB1-S.Gilmore/J.Rogers
CB2-D.R.Cromartie*/A.Williams
FS-J.Byrd/D.Searcy
SS-G.Wilson/D.Searcy


4-6 set-up:
DE-K.Moore/A.Carrington
DT-K.Williams/M.DeVito
DT-M.Dareus/A.Franklin
DE-M.Anderson/M.Williams
OLB-M.Williams/M.Anderson
ILB-J.Durant/N.Barnett
ILB-A.Ogeltree/K.Sheppard
OLB-P.Haralson/N.Bradham
CB1-S.Gilmore/J.Rogers
CB2-D.R.Cromartie/A.Williams
FS-J.Byrd/G.Wilson


Much more flexible in terms of scheme. Even without DeVito or Franklin, it's much much better than what we've had in the past few years.
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jsnydes


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bills steal another coach from the jets Twisted Evil assistant defensive line coach.
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Yibbyl


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsnydes wrote:
Bills steal another coach from the jets Twisted Evil assistant defensive line coach.

As long as we stay away from their offensive coaches...
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TommyC376


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yibbyl wrote:
jsnydes wrote:
Bills steal another coach from the jets Twisted Evil assistant defensive line coach.

As long as we stay away from their offensive coaches...
QFT.
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