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REDandPEWTER
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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 Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Yeah. A lot like to make the Eli Manning comparison. But that's tough to say. Qbs , franchise qbs don't grow on trees so I hope he does turn Ito Eli Manning. Would love to not have qb issues for the next 8 years.
However to me they're nothing alike in terms of qbs. Their career paths are similar but freeman had more question marks coming out of college than Eli. Freeman always had the accuracy issues and I hate using Mel kippers analysis but he said it best: toughest qb to get a read on. Sometimes looked like a first rd pick others a 5th rounder.
Seems to be accurate. He just needs to build more consistancy and sustain more drives. Too many 3 and outs. That won't help any defense out. |
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Buccaneer4life
Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 3476
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| If we let go of Freeman it will be a HUGE mistake. Yes he has been very inconsistent but when he is on hes a pretty good QB. Letting him walk now would not be smart. IMO we need to sign him to an extension and give him some more time to gel with martin, jackson, and williams. There's no stud QBs in the draft and no FA will be better than Freeman. Alex Smith? Come on. Freeman is our guy and needs an extension. |
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REDandPEWTER
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 3856
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| Buccaneer4life wrote: | | If we let go of Freeman it will be a HUGE mistake. Yes he has been very inconsistent but when he is on hes a pretty good QB. Letting him walk now would not be smart. IMO we need to sign him to an extension and give him some more time to gel with martin, jackson, and williams. There's no stud QBs in the draft and no FA will be better than Freeman. Alex Smith? Come on. Freeman is our guy and needs an extension. |
He needs to earn the extension. He hasn't done that. He needs to be more consistant and step up his play against better competition. It's year 5 of dominiks rebuilding regime. This should be a playoff year. Freeman needs to step up and improve. And schiano and Dom are hoping conpetition does that for him. |
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manilathrilla1
Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 1108
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| REDandPEWTER wrote: | | Buccaneer4life wrote: | | If we let go of Freeman it will be a HUGE mistake. Yes he has been very inconsistent but when he is on hes a pretty good QB. Letting him walk now would not be smart. IMO we need to sign him to an extension and give him some more time to gel with martin, jackson, and williams. There's no stud QBs in the draft and no FA will be better than Freeman. Alex Smith? Come on. Freeman is our guy and needs an extension. |
He needs to earn the extension. He hasn't done that. He needs to be more consistant and step up his play against better competition. It's year 5 of dominiks rebuilding regime. This should be a playoff year. Freeman needs to step up and improve. And schiano and Dom are hoping conpetition does that for him. |
He does need to earn his extension. He shouldn't get one based on him being our best option. If he continues with his streaky play I don't believe he will get an extension.
Sometimes both player and team need to go separate ways. Steve Young and Tampa parted ways and while it looks bad now Steve was not succeeding here and it did him good to sit behind Montana and learn from Walsh. Tampa didn't have a Walsh then and they don't have one now. A coach like Jim Harabaugh isn't walking through that door. |
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DaRealdeal
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 8658
Location: Jamison. on the sig
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| manilathrilla1 wrote: | | REDandPEWTER wrote: | | Buccaneer4life wrote: | | If we let go of Freeman it will be a HUGE mistake. Yes he has been very inconsistent but when he is on hes a pretty good QB. Letting him walk now would not be smart. IMO we need to sign him to an extension and give him some more time to gel with martin, jackson, and williams. There's no stud QBs in the draft and no FA will be better than Freeman. Alex Smith? Come on. Freeman is our guy and needs an extension. |
He needs to earn the extension. He hasn't done that. He needs to be more consistant and step up his play against better competition. It's year 5 of dominiks rebuilding regime. This should be a playoff year. Freeman needs to step up and improve. And schiano and Dom are hoping conpetition does that for him. |
He does need to earn his extension. He shouldn't get one based on him being our best option. If he continues with his streaky play I don't believe he will get an extension.
Sometimes both player and team need to go separate ways. Steve Young and Tampa parted ways and while it looks bad now Steve was not succeeding here and it did him good to sit behind Montana and learn from Walsh. Tampa didn't have a Walsh then and they don't have one now. A coach like Jim Harabaugh isn't walking through that door. |
Isn't that a weird example to use? After leaving the Bucs, at only 26 years old mind you, Young put up awesome numbers immediately. Even before Montana left, Young was great when he had his chance to start.
Did Walsh really make him a HOFer, or was Young not given enough time in Tampa? I'm not discounting Walsh's influence on Young, he's a legend, but Young was the 1st overall pick in the supplemental draft. At some point don't you have to bet on talent?
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REDandPEWTER
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 3856
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:38 am Post subject: |
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Drd
Agree with you on certain points. My thing with freeman is does he have it between the ears? It's concerning when you see a guy with a cannon under throw Wrs and throw balls at their feet when they're wide open 10-15 yards from te Los.
He's got a lot of work to do to win back the coaching staff fans and organization.
It's tough to compare freeman to guys like manning and young bc I'm not sure they're te same type of person or player. Do they have similar career paths? Yes. But to say to give him more time bc it clicked for those guys doesn't mean it will for josh. I hope it does but he's got one year. Playoffs or bust. |
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manilathrilla1
Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 1108
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| DaRealdeal wrote: |
Isn't that a weird example to use? After leaving the Bucs, at only 26 years old mind you, Young put up awesome numbers immediately. Even before Montana left, Young was great when he had his chance to start.
Did Walsh really make him a HOFer, or was Young not given enough time in Tampa? I'm not discounting Walsh's influence on Young, he's a legend, but Young was the 1st overall pick in the supplemental draft. At some point don't you have to bet on talent? |
Weird? Didn't I say that sometimes player and team need to go separate ways? I don't need to explain everything into little details, most people can connect the dots.
Young obviously wasn't utilized the right way in Tampa, Bill Walsh had an innovative Offense that utilized his talents well. He did do well to begin with, but with a small sample size. Whether you believe players learn from sitting behind HOF QB's or not is your opinion, I think Young learned a lot from Montana even though Montana didn't embrace him, just like Rodgers and Favre. Certainly Walsh helped Young progress as a HOF QB.
I bet on talent in the right situation. I bet against most talent that goes to the Raiders, Browns, etc... I think Richardson will be good for a long while, but for the most part certain teams don't have what it takes to help realize that talent at all levels: ownership, front office, coaching. The dominant teams are dominant for a reason, and the basement dwellers the opposite for a reason.
I don't think Freeman is in the right situation to succeed (he needs a great Defense and a confidence boost), maybe you do, I think he's out after next season and I've already explained why.
Last edited by manilathrilla1 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Buccaneer4life
Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 3476
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| I didnt realize that Freeman's contract wasnt up until the end of next year. The way this thread was titled made it sound like he was a FA this offseason. With that being said I do think its a wise choice to bring in a guy to give Freeman some competition. I think it would bring out the best in both players. If anything we need to draft a QB no later than the 3rd round. Anything beyond that I feel would be a wasted pick and a "project" QB. Those rarely suceed. Freeman should/will be our guy in 2013. Personally I think he will ultimately get an extension. |
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REDandPEWTER
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 3856
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Something that baffles me: I notice freeman had quite more than a few balls batted down at the LOS. Then a guy as short as Russell Wilson rarely gets balls batted at the LOS. |
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ravishingone
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 1837
Location: Leola
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Why is the importance of coaching always minimized when evaluating a QB's development in college and the pros?
Andrew Luck - Stanford - Jim Harbaugh/David Shaw, Colts -Chuck Pagano/Bruce Airens
RG III - Baylor - Art Briles, Redskins - Mike and Kyle Shanahan
Josh Freeman - Kansas State - Ron Prince, Bucs (3 yrs) - Raheem Morris/Jeff Jagodzinski (very briefly) Greg Olson
Honestly, there is no comparison. Go thru the last 4 years of QBs drafted in the first round and you can see which QBs had very good/great coaching in college and the NFL, there development is so much better.
Freeman has many flaws to correct, but at least now he has capable coaching (Freakin' Bears don't steal Sully, don't do it  ) A great coach makes a franchise QB. Mediocre coaching will not develop a franchise QB. Steve Young is a great example in history. |
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bucstopshere
Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 12527
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| ravishingone wrote: | Why is the importance of coaching always minimized when evaluating a QB's development in college and the pros?
Andrew Luck - Stanford - Jim Harbaugh/David Shaw, Colts -Chuck Pagano/Bruce Airens
RG III - Baylor - Art Briles, Redskins - Mike and Kyle Shanahan
Josh Freeman - Kansas State - Ron Prince, Bucs (3 yrs) - Raheem Morris/Jeff Jagodzinski (very briefly) Greg Olson
Honestly, there is no comparison. Go thru the last 4 years of QBs drafted in the first round and you can see which QBs had very good/great coaching in college and the NFL, there development is so much better.
Freeman has many flaws to correct, but at least now he has capable coaching (Freakin' Bears don't steal Sully, don't do it ) A great coach makes a franchise QB. Mediocre coaching will not develop a franchise QB. Steve Young is a great example in history. |
THANK YOU!
Let Free get another year with Sully, all of you will be amazed
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DaRealdeal
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 8658
Location: Jamison. on the sig
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| manilathrilla1 wrote: | | DaRealdeal wrote: |
Isn't that a weird example to use? After leaving the Bucs, at only 26 years old mind you, Young put up awesome numbers immediately. Even before Montana left, Young was great when he had his chance to start.
Did Walsh really make him a HOFer, or was Young not given enough time in Tampa? I'm not discounting Walsh's influence on Young, he's a legend, but Young was the 1st overall pick in the supplemental draft. At some point don't you have to bet on talent? |
Weird? Didn't I say that sometimes player and team need to go separate ways? I don't need to explain everything into little details, most people can connect the dots.
Young obviously wasn't utilized the right way in Tampa, Bill Walsh had an innovative Offense that utilized his talents well. He did do well to begin with, but with a small sample size. Whether you believe players learn from sitting behind HOF QB's or not is your opinion, I think Young learned a lot from Montana even though Montana didn't embrace him, just like Rodgers and Favre. Certainly Walsh helped Young progress as a HOF QB.
I bet on talent in the right situation. I bet against most talent that goes to the Raiders, Browns, etc... I think Richardson will be good for a long while, but for the most part certain teams don't have what it takes to help realize that talent at all levels: ownership, front office, coaching. The dominant teams are dominant for a reason, and the basement dwellers the opposite for a reason.
I don't think Freeman is in the right situation to succeed (he needs a great Defense and a confidence boost), maybe you do, I think he's out after next season and I've already explained why. |
I connected the dots just fine, I just thought that it was an odd example to use. Most people look back at letting Steve Young go as a mistake. He's the one that got away. Young clearly didn't lack the talent to become great, but the environment around him (coaching, personnel) needed to be upgraded. Freeman doesn't have that problem so I don't see how the example is relevant.
Tampa right now isn't a toxic environment like it was when Steve Young was here in the mid 80's and while Sullivan may not be Bill Walsh, he coached Eli Manning up to the best season of his career. There is a reason why after only one season as an OC he's already receiving interviews to become a HC.
We have the pieces around Freeman, he has a very good coach drawing up the plays and the run and shoot takes advantage of his strengths as a downfield passer. He's in a good situation. He just needs to go out there and do it. And more consistently.
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manilathrilla1
Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 1108
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| DaRealdeal wrote: |
I connected the dots just fine, I just thought that it was an odd example to use. Most people look back at letting Steve Young go as a mistake. He's the one that got away. Young clearly didn't lack the talent to become great, but the environment around him (coaching, personnel) needed to be upgraded. Freeman doesn't have that problem so I don't see how the example is relevant.
Tampa right now isn't a toxic environment like it was when Steve Young was here in the mid 80's and while Sullivan may not be Bill Walsh, he coached Eli Manning up to the best season of his career. There is a reason why after only one season as an OC he's already receiving interviews to become a HC.
We have the pieces around Freeman, he has a very good coach drawing up the plays and the run and shoot takes advantage of his strengths as a downfield passer. He's in a good situation. He just needs to go out there and do it. And more consistently. |
I agree with you, I want Freeman to stay, I honestly don't think any QB will come in here and be any better than him over the long haul.
I also agree that this Franchise isn't in a toxic state it was before, but also not in the best position to progress a QB who seemingly has little time to prove himself.
My assessment is mostly based on the nature of this league; I think Freeman will get let go based on what franchises like our BUCs do. The BUCs are an average franchise, not an elite one and not a cellar dweller, turnover at the QB position happens whether it is warranted or not.
If we do let Freeman go I think he can prosper on another team with the right situation. Then it would be similar to the Young situation, which would be unfortunate. |
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REDandPEWTER
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 3856
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:36 am Post subject: |
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I think our situation in Tampa is fine. Pass rush and secondary on defense can be addressed.
For freeman: well when some compare him to joe Flacco well sheesh there is no comparison. Watching these qbs makes me say one thing: freeman is better than joe Webb/Christian ponder.
I've seen too many drives end in 3 and outs. He doesn't move the chains and we were bottom of the league on 3rd down conversion.
A defenses best friend is having a offense that holds the football.
I don't think freeman is the qb that takes Tampa to the playoffs. Just doesn't have the poise. |
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epicMustache
Joined: 19 Jul 2010
Posts: 631
Location: Tallahassee
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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This place is downright unbearable sometimes. 
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| THE PACK MAN wrote: | | ... but the Packers wouldnt be as good if they had the 49ers defense. |
- Adopt a Buc -
Dallas Clark - TE - 47 REC, 435 YDS, 4 TDs, 9.3 AVG |
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