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DKDALfan


Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 2439
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TVScout wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
TVScout wrote:
Don't pick for need. Pick for effect. The first round rated DLs in this draft don't fit the system. Players like Hankins and Williams will fail here because they can't penetrate. Elam would do much more for us.


I pick for talent. Jonathan Jenkins, Sheldon Richardson, Chance Warmack, and Barrett Jones are all more talented. I'd take any of them over a Safety.


Warmack and Jones I will agree with. But....... Jonathan Jenkins can't penetrate and wears down because he is too fat. Richardson was rated the #1 DT prospect coming out of high school but has had only one good season in college and is a candidate as a "heavy pocket" bust. Go on take the money and run...........

What happens if Chance and Barret are gone when we are up?


first of all,I doubt both Warmack and Jones will be gone at #18. They play o line.. But if they somehow is, Cooper is still there who I have rated better then both.

As for Jenkins not being a great at penetrate, he is a nose tackle? if we draft him, we would go with the traditional 2 gap NT who is not supposed to penetrate, but to occupy double teams and push the pocket which Jenkins can.
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GeneralDissaray


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 5488
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DKDALfan wrote:
TVScout wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
TVScout wrote:
Don't pick for need. Pick for effect. The first round rated DLs in this draft don't fit the system. Players like Hankins and Williams will fail here because they can't penetrate. Elam would do much more for us.


I pick for talent. Jonathan Jenkins, Sheldon Richardson, Chance Warmack, and Barrett Jones are all more talented. I'd take any of them over a Safety.


Warmack and Jones I will agree with. But....... Jonathan Jenkins can't penetrate and wears down because he is too fat. Richardson was rated the #1 DT prospect coming out of high school but has had only one good season in college and is a candidate as a "heavy pocket" bust. Go on take the money and run...........

What happens if Chance and Barret are gone when we are up?


first of all,I doubt both Warmack and Jones will be gone at #18. They play o line.. But if they somehow is, Cooper is still there who I have rated better then both.

As for Jenkins not being a great at penetrate, he is a nose tackle? if we draft him, we would go with the traditional 2 gap NT who is not supposed to penetrate, but to occupy double teams and push the pocket which Jenkins can.


Agree. If no one wanted to pick Decastro until pick 24, I doubt Warmack/Jones/Cooper will be drafted any earlier. As long as we can find a partner, I think its a must to trade down and grab one of those three.
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TVScout


Joined: 05 May 2009
Posts: 1662
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DKDALfan wrote:
TVScout wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
TVScout wrote:
Don't pick for need. Pick for effect. The first round rated DLs in this draft don't fit the system. Players like Hankins and Williams will fail here because they can't penetrate. Elam would do much more for us.


I pick for talent. Jonathan Jenkins, Sheldon Richardson, Chance Warmack, and Barrett Jones are all more talented. I'd take any of them over a Safety.


Warmack and Jones I will agree with. But....... Jonathan Jenkins can't penetrate and wears down because he is too fat. Richardson was rated the #1 DT prospect coming out of high school but has had only one good season in college and is a candidate as a "heavy pocket" bust. Go on take the money and run...........

What happens if Chance and Barret are gone when we are up?


first of all,I doubt both Warmack and Jones will be gone at #18. They play o line.. But if they somehow is, Cooper is still there who I have rated better then both.

As for Jenkins not being a great at penetrate, he is a nose tackle? if we draft him, we would go with the traditional 2 gap NT who is not supposed to penetrate, but to occupy double teams and push the pocket which Jenkins can.


Jenkins is a nose but he is the wrong kind for our system. If we go true 2 gap then we will need to draft 2 more DLs because the rest of the D-line can't do that. I would rather pick Brandon Williams. He recorded 8.5 sacks and 16.5 TFLs.
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Nextyearfordaboyz


Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 17303
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TVScout wrote:
DKDALfan wrote:
TVScout wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
TVScout wrote:
Don't pick for need. Pick for effect. The first round rated DLs in this draft don't fit the system. Players like Hankins and Williams will fail here because they can't penetrate. Elam would do much more for us.


I pick for talent. Jonathan Jenkins, Sheldon Richardson, Chance Warmack, and Barrett Jones are all more talented. I'd take any of them over a Safety.


Warmack and Jones I will agree with. But....... Jonathan Jenkins can't penetrate and wears down because he is too fat. Richardson was rated the #1 DT prospect coming out of high school but has had only one good season in college and is a candidate as a "heavy pocket" bust. Go on take the money and run...........

What happens if Chance and Barret are gone when we are up?


first of all,I doubt both Warmack and Jones will be gone at #18. They play o line.. But if they somehow is, Cooper is still there who I have rated better then both.

As for Jenkins not being a great at penetrate, he is a nose tackle? if we draft him, we would go with the traditional 2 gap NT who is not supposed to penetrate, but to occupy double teams and push the pocket which Jenkins can.


Jenkins is a nose but he is the wrong kind for our system. If we go true 2 gap then we will need to draft 2 more DLs because the rest of the D-line can't do that. I would rather pick Brandon Williams. He recorded 8.5 sacks and 16.5 TFLs.


The job of a coach is to put his players in the best position to succeed. Having Ratliff at NT has dictated what we can do. But when he went out, Rob had Josh Brent out there running a lot more 2-gap stuff and looking pretty good doing it.

I refuse to believe that a stud NT akin to Vince Wilfork couldn't fit into our defense without completely overhauling the rest of our defensive linemen.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
TVScout wrote:
DKDALfan wrote:
TVScout wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
TVScout wrote:
Don't pick for need. Pick for effect. The first round rated DLs in this draft don't fit the system. Players like Hankins and Williams will fail here because they can't penetrate. Elam would do much more for us.


I pick for talent. Jonathan Jenkins, Sheldon Richardson, Chance Warmack, and Barrett Jones are all more talented. I'd take any of them over a Safety.


Warmack and Jones I will agree with. But....... Jonathan Jenkins can't penetrate and wears down because he is too fat. Richardson was rated the #1 DT prospect coming out of high school but has had only one good season in college and is a candidate as a "heavy pocket" bust. Go on take the money and run...........

What happens if Chance and Barret are gone when we are up?


first of all,I doubt both Warmack and Jones will be gone at #18. They play o line.. But if they somehow is, Cooper is still there who I have rated better then both.

As for Jenkins not being a great at penetrate, he is a nose tackle? if we draft him, we would go with the traditional 2 gap NT who is not supposed to penetrate, but to occupy double teams and push the pocket which Jenkins can.


Jenkins is a nose but he is the wrong kind for our system. If we go true 2 gap then we will need to draft 2 more DLs because the rest of the D-line can't do that. I would rather pick Brandon Williams. He recorded 8.5 sacks and 16.5 TFLs.


The job of a coach is to put his players in the best position to succeed. Having Ratliff at NT has dictated what we can do. But when he went out, Rob had Josh Brent out there running a lot more 2-gap stuff and looking pretty good doing it.

I refuse to believe that a stud NT akin to Vince Wilfork couldn't fit into our defense without completely overhauling the rest of our defensive linemen.


Agreed. I wholeheartedly agree. You never pass up on talent because of scheme. You adjust the scheme to fit the talent. Then again, truly talented players should be able to adapt more readily to a scheme to begin with.

As an example, both DeMarcus Ware was a DE at Troy and Marcus Spears played DE, DT, and TE at LSU, and neither of them played their current positions in a 3-4 defense yet they've transitioned quite well if I may say so. Talented players adapt, and it's not like Jonathan Jenkins needs to adapt to a 3-4 defense since he already plays in one. He's currently a NT and will be drafted to play NT, so the gap scheme nonsense isn't even an issue. It's not like he's a 4-3 UT being asked to convert to NT. That would be a tough transition.
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DKDALfan


Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 2439
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TVScout wrote:
DKDALfan wrote:
TVScout wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
TVScout wrote:
Don't pick for need. Pick for effect. The first round rated DLs in this draft don't fit the system. Players like Hankins and Williams will fail here because they can't penetrate. Elam would do much more for us.


I pick for talent. Jonathan Jenkins, Sheldon Richardson, Chance Warmack, and Barrett Jones are all more talented. I'd take any of them over a Safety.


Warmack and Jones I will agree with. But....... Jonathan Jenkins can't penetrate and wears down because he is too fat. Richardson was rated the #1 DT prospect coming out of high school but has had only one good season in college and is a candidate as a "heavy pocket" bust. Go on take the money and run...........

What happens if Chance and Barret are gone when we are up?


first of all,I doubt both Warmack and Jones will be gone at #18. They play o line.. But if they somehow is, Cooper is still there who I have rated better then both.

As for Jenkins not being a great at penetrate, he is a nose tackle? if we draft him, we would go with the traditional 2 gap NT who is not supposed to penetrate, but to occupy double teams and push the pocket which Jenkins can.


Jenkins is a nose but he is the wrong kind for our system. If we go true 2 gap then we will need to draft 2 more DLs because the rest of the D-line can't do that. I would rather pick Brandon Williams. He recorded 8.5 sacks and 16.5 TFLs.


So we can't shift to a 2 gap system, because our DE's are doing so great with the system we have right now?

- The transition for a new gap system will be minimal. They can't play much worse anyway.
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TVScout


Joined: 05 May 2009
Posts: 1662
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
TVScout wrote:
DKDALfan wrote:
TVScout wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
TVScout wrote:
Don't pick for need. Pick for effect. The first round rated DLs in this draft don't fit the system. Players like Hankins and Williams will fail here because they can't penetrate. Elam would do much more for us.


I pick for talent. Jonathan Jenkins, Sheldon Richardson, Chance Warmack, and Barrett Jones are all more talented. I'd take any of them over a Safety.


Warmack and Jones I will agree with. But....... Jonathan Jenkins can't penetrate and wears down because he is too fat. Richardson was rated the #1 DT prospect coming out of high school but has had only one good season in college and is a candidate as a "heavy pocket" bust. Go on take the money and run...........

What happens if Chance and Barret are gone when we are up?


first of all,I doubt both Warmack and Jones will be gone at #18. They play o line.. But if they somehow is, Cooper is still there who I have rated better then both.

As for Jenkins not being a great at penetrate, he is a nose tackle? if we draft him, we would go with the traditional 2 gap NT who is not supposed to penetrate, but to occupy double teams and push the pocket which Jenkins can.


Jenkins is a nose but he is the wrong kind for our system. If we go true 2 gap then we will need to draft 2 more DLs because the rest of the D-line can't do that. I would rather pick Brandon Williams. He recorded 8.5 sacks and 16.5 TFLs.


The job of a coach is to put his players in the best position to succeed. Having Ratliff at NT has dictated what we can do. But when he went out, Rob had Josh Brent out there running a lot more 2-gap stuff and looking pretty good doing it.

I refuse to believe that a stud NT akin to Vince Wilfork couldn't fit into our defense without completely overhauling the rest of our defensive linemen.


Actually we weren't that good at it. In the six games Rat missed we gave up more points than in the six games that Rat played. Steelers play a 4-0-3/5 scheme where the LDE and nose 2 gap and the RDE 1 gaps. They have been very successful. I don't know of any team that runs a 5-0-3 scheme. With that there will be a huge gap in the line between the nose over center all the way out to the DE beyond the TE. I would hate to be a SILB having to stare down both the FB and an OG plus even the TE who pulls to the inside. Good grief, three blockers coming right at me all by myself.
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