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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 55189
Location: Havre, Montana
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 Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperFlyTNT wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | SuperFlyTNT wrote: | Steve Keim's thought's on the running game are along the lines of what I've thought - while there's some pieces there, there just hasn't been enough to run the ball consistently.
The way I read into that, that means if we had tried to run the ball like we want to take pressure off of the passing game in recent years, we wouldn't have been able to do that consistently enough to make that a viable option. I like that he wants to address that with personnel changes. |
If we're talking about Levi being in the lineup, I cannot agree with this. |
I'm saying we weren't consistently good enough running the ball - even in 2011. I'm not saying we wouldn't have won the Redskins game that year if we had run Beanie more. What I'm saying is there are still plenty of times - like that season against the bengals, browns, and obviously the niners - where in a decent sample size we're not getting the YPC we need to justify running the ball 60% of the time.
Our FO saw that and tried bringing in Adam Snyder and hoping a healthier Beanie and Ryan Williams would solve that - obviously we all know how that all worked out. So if we want to run the ball most of the time we need to bring in personnel that will allow us to be consistently good running into stacked fronts - that includes having RBs that are healthy (don't have to do that high in the draft though), getting Levi back, and getting better run blocking from the interior and especially the right side of the line. |
Bolded: All of which we did aside from healthy backs, which is frankly a luck issue and nothing more. We brought in the personnel, it's here right now. We simply never used it. That's just the reality of the last 6 years. That's why Whiz isn't here anymore. |
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SuperFlyTNT
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 504
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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Like we talked about before though - what they brought in for this season couldn't be used because of injuries - we don't even know if the:
Levi-College-Sendlein-Snyder-Massie
line could run successfully into the stacked fronts we're dealing with because we haven't seen them play together. That line looks good run blocking on paper - but like I said without Snyder and Massie in 2011 that line didn't produce in several games. Add to that the fact that, when healthy, Adam Snyder didn't play well overall and Lyle's play dropped off and you can see why having the personnel to establish a consistent running game is still a question mark - including on the line.
Are you comfortable going into 2013 knowing we'd have the above line and that we're going to be running the ball 60% of the time? I'm not - I'd prefer an upgrade over Snyder and possibly Lyle, and perhaps some competition for Massie to make sure he improves. That plus healthy backs - William Powell included. |
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DDOCKETT90
Joined: 25 Mar 2011
Posts: 859
Location: GILBERT, AZ
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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Good now let's get horton
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 55189
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperFlyTNT wrote: | Like we talked about before though - what they brought in for this season couldn't be used because of injuries - we don't even know if the:
Levi-College-Sendlein-Snyder-Massie
line could run successfully into the stacked fronts we're dealing with because we haven't seen them play together. That line looks good run blocking on paper - but like I said without Snyder and Massie in 2011 that line didn't produce in several games. Add to that the fact that, when healthy, Adam Snyder didn't play well overall and Lyle's play dropped off and you can see why having the personnel to establish a consistent running game is still a question mark - including on the line.
Are you comfortable going into 2013 knowing we'd have the above line and that we're going to be running the ball 60% of the time? I'm not - I'd prefer an upgrade over Snyder and possibly Lyle, and perhaps some competition for Massie to make sure he improves. That plus healthy backs - William Powell included. |
And as I have said many, many times, this is all moot when you add in the fact that we didn't run the ball BEFORE this season either. 2010, nothing. 2011, nothing. We had no QB but did have effective backs, we had a line built to run, we invested in players who are positive run game players. Nothing. I'm sorry but that makes this agurment about 2012 completely moot. To suggest we didn't run in 2012 because of injuries/ineffectiveness is flying in the face of Whiz's factual offensive track record, which shows very clearly a coach completely unwilling to run regardless of the circumstances.
That's the fact of this situation. |
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SuperFlyTNT
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 504
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| stchamp98 wrote: | | SuperFlyTNT wrote: | Like we talked about before though - what they brought in for this season couldn't be used because of injuries - we don't even know if the:
Levi-College-Sendlein-Snyder-Massie
line could run successfully into the stacked fronts we're dealing with because we haven't seen them play together. That line looks good run blocking on paper - but like I said without Snyder and Massie in 2011 that line didn't produce in several games. Add to that the fact that, when healthy, Adam Snyder didn't play well overall and Lyle's play dropped off and you can see why having the personnel to establish a consistent running game is still a question mark - including on the line.
Are you comfortable going into 2013 knowing we'd have the above line and that we're going to be running the ball 60% of the time? I'm not - I'd prefer an upgrade over Snyder and possibly Lyle, and perhaps some competition for Massie to make sure he improves. That plus healthy backs - William Powell included. |
And as I have said many, many times, this is all moot when you add in the fact that we didn't run the ball BEFORE this season either. 2010, nothing. 2011, nothing. We had no QB but did have effective backs, we had a line built to run, we invested in players who are positive run game players. Nothing. I'm sorry but that makes this agurment about 2012 completely moot. To suggest we didn't run in 2012 because of injuries/ineffectiveness is flying in the face of Whiz's factual offensive track record, which shows very clearly a coach completely unwilling to run regardless of the circumstances.
That's the fact of this situation. |
You're misunderstanding what I'm saying - I'm not arguing for what Whiz did anymore, completely moved on as soon as the Cards did.
I'm saying we tried to run the ball before - not a huge sample size, but it was a big enough to know we weren't good enough consistently with the personnel we had on the field at any given time during recent years. I'm concerned about that especially if we're going to be running on 60% of our offensive plays going forward. That's what I see Steve Keim addressing during the press conference - it doesn't appear he's comfortable with our personnel in that regard either. |
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 55189
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperFlyTNT wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | SuperFlyTNT wrote: | Like we talked about before though - what they brought in for this season couldn't be used because of injuries - we don't even know if the:
Levi-College-Sendlein-Snyder-Massie
line could run successfully into the stacked fronts we're dealing with because we haven't seen them play together. That line looks good run blocking on paper - but like I said without Snyder and Massie in 2011 that line didn't produce in several games. Add to that the fact that, when healthy, Adam Snyder didn't play well overall and Lyle's play dropped off and you can see why having the personnel to establish a consistent running game is still a question mark - including on the line.
Are you comfortable going into 2013 knowing we'd have the above line and that we're going to be running the ball 60% of the time? I'm not - I'd prefer an upgrade over Snyder and possibly Lyle, and perhaps some competition for Massie to make sure he improves. That plus healthy backs - William Powell included. |
And as I have said many, many times, this is all moot when you add in the fact that we didn't run the ball BEFORE this season either. 2010, nothing. 2011, nothing. We had no QB but did have effective backs, we had a line built to run, we invested in players who are positive run game players. Nothing. I'm sorry but that makes this agurment about 2012 completely moot. To suggest we didn't run in 2012 because of injuries/ineffectiveness is flying in the face of Whiz's factual offensive track record, which shows very clearly a coach completely unwilling to run regardless of the circumstances.
That's the fact of this situation. |
You're misunderstanding what I'm saying - I'm not arguing for what Whiz did anymore, completely moved on as soon as the Cards did.
I'm saying we tried to run the ball before - not a huge sample size, but it was a big enough to know we weren't good enough consistently with the personnel we had on the field at any given time during recent years. I'm concerned about that especially if we're going to be running on 60% of our offensive plays going forward. That's what I see Steve Keim addressing during the press conference - it doesn't appear he's comfortable with our personnel in that regard either. |
And I completely disagree with that, especially as it pertains to a lineup with Levi Brown. |
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SuperFlyTNT
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 504
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| stchamp98 wrote: | | SuperFlyTNT wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | SuperFlyTNT wrote: | Like we talked about before though - what they brought in for this season couldn't be used because of injuries - we don't even know if the:
Levi-College-Sendlein-Snyder-Massie
line could run successfully into the stacked fronts we're dealing with because we haven't seen them play together. That line looks good run blocking on paper - but like I said without Snyder and Massie in 2011 that line didn't produce in several games. Add to that the fact that, when healthy, Adam Snyder didn't play well overall and Lyle's play dropped off and you can see why having the personnel to establish a consistent running game is still a question mark - including on the line.
Are you comfortable going into 2013 knowing we'd have the above line and that we're going to be running the ball 60% of the time? I'm not - I'd prefer an upgrade over Snyder and possibly Lyle, and perhaps some competition for Massie to make sure he improves. That plus healthy backs - William Powell included. |
And as I have said many, many times, this is all moot when you add in the fact that we didn't run the ball BEFORE this season either. 2010, nothing. 2011, nothing. We had no QB but did have effective backs, we had a line built to run, we invested in players who are positive run game players. Nothing. I'm sorry but that makes this agurment about 2012 completely moot. To suggest we didn't run in 2012 because of injuries/ineffectiveness is flying in the face of Whiz's factual offensive track record, which shows very clearly a coach completely unwilling to run regardless of the circumstances.
That's the fact of this situation. |
You're misunderstanding what I'm saying - I'm not arguing for what Whiz did anymore, completely moved on as soon as the Cards did.
I'm saying we tried to run the ball before - not a huge sample size, but it was a big enough to know we weren't good enough consistently with the personnel we had on the field at any given time during recent years. I'm concerned about that especially if we're going to be running on 60% of our offensive plays going forward. That's what I see Steve Keim addressing during the press conference - it doesn't appear he's comfortable with our personnel in that regard either. |
And I completely disagree with that, especially as it pertains to a lineup with Levi Brown. |
OK - let me rephrase that then - you think the current personnel, when healthy, is good enough to be consistently successful running the ball into heavy run fronts. Successful enough to have at least decent offensive performance running the ball 60% of the time.
So - does that mean you don't favor an upgrade over Adam Snyder or Lyle in the draft? or if you do does that mean it's for other reasons like pass protection? |
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11sanchez11
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 18309
Location: Tucson, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| Great news. One thing I was wondering though, will his new responsibilities take away from his college scouting? I don't know how involved Graves was with the draft process but did he have final say on who we drafted and will Keim? |
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 55189
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| SuperFlyTNT wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | SuperFlyTNT wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | SuperFlyTNT wrote: | Like we talked about before though - what they brought in for this season couldn't be used because of injuries - we don't even know if the:
Levi-College-Sendlein-Snyder-Massie
line could run successfully into the stacked fronts we're dealing with because we haven't seen them play together. That line looks good run blocking on paper - but like I said without Snyder and Massie in 2011 that line didn't produce in several games. Add to that the fact that, when healthy, Adam Snyder didn't play well overall and Lyle's play dropped off and you can see why having the personnel to establish a consistent running game is still a question mark - including on the line.
Are you comfortable going into 2013 knowing we'd have the above line and that we're going to be running the ball 60% of the time? I'm not - I'd prefer an upgrade over Snyder and possibly Lyle, and perhaps some competition for Massie to make sure he improves. That plus healthy backs - William Powell included. |
And as I have said many, many times, this is all moot when you add in the fact that we didn't run the ball BEFORE this season either. 2010, nothing. 2011, nothing. We had no QB but did have effective backs, we had a line built to run, we invested in players who are positive run game players. Nothing. I'm sorry but that makes this agurment about 2012 completely moot. To suggest we didn't run in 2012 because of injuries/ineffectiveness is flying in the face of Whiz's factual offensive track record, which shows very clearly a coach completely unwilling to run regardless of the circumstances.
That's the fact of this situation. |
You're misunderstanding what I'm saying - I'm not arguing for what Whiz did anymore, completely moved on as soon as the Cards did.
I'm saying we tried to run the ball before - not a huge sample size, but it was a big enough to know we weren't good enough consistently with the personnel we had on the field at any given time during recent years. I'm concerned about that especially if we're going to be running on 60% of our offensive plays going forward. That's what I see Steve Keim addressing during the press conference - it doesn't appear he's comfortable with our personnel in that regard either. |
And I completely disagree with that, especially as it pertains to a lineup with Levi Brown. |
OK - let me rephrase that then - you think the current personnel, when healthy, is good enough to be consistently successful running the ball into heavy run fronts. |
No question, I absolutely do. Of course that didn't show itself this season with Levi going down and Beanie going down and that personnel is still a liability in the pass game but yes, I believe it 100%. |
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DDOCKETT90
Joined: 25 Mar 2011
Posts: 859
Location: GILBERT, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Will he have final say over our drafts?
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khodder
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 52063
Location: New New York
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| DDOCKETT90 wrote: | | Will he have final say over our drafts? |
Depends on whom he hires as his head coach and how much say his head coach wants. But he will be very heavily invokved in the final decision.
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 55189
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| He'll have final say but Bidwill wants Keim and the head coach to be a "cohesive unit". It will likely be a bit of a tag team effort but Keim will have the final say. |
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DDOCKETT90
Joined: 25 Mar 2011
Posts: 859
Location: GILBERT, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Good I want him to have final say
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Cusi10
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 368
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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reports of keim only making 750k a year what a joke lol...
what happend to all those reports champ of mikes agent drving bidwell up the wall. |
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 55189
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Cusi10 wrote: | reports of keim only making 750k a year what a joke lol...
what happend to all those reports champ of mikes agent drving bidwell up the wall. |
If it's such a joke, why did Keim take the job?
And those reports are very much true. Reported by multiple outlets. |
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