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Jrry32 Another Take Mock Off-Season
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The J.R.S.


Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 3881
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
The J.R.S. wrote:


Austin's greatest attribute is his ability to gain yards after the catch. If he is going to be diving at people's feet when they get near him then I'd say no thanks to drafting him.


He already does and he still picks up ridiculous YAC yards. It's all about knowing when you're caught. He makes people miss, picks up yards but when he gets surrounded and has nowhere to go, he either steps out or dives for yards.

Quote:
I had already considered that his elusiveness makes him hard to square up, but it only takes once, and he does not have eyes in the back of his head. If any one of those Seattle defensive backs caught him clean, it would be lights out. If a player like that ever becomes timid, their career is essentially over.


Or he'd get right back up and be fine. This isn't a guy who has had trouble staying on the field. Any WR is at risk of being injured or knocked out with a big hit. Seems ridiculous to not draft someone based on that reasoning...especially when that player never missed a game in his college career.

Quote:
Bruce and Holt didn't start hitting the ground early until the 3rd year of Mike Martz being the head coach. If you don't believe me, just go look up how we went from leading the league in YAC to being near the bottom. Not coincidentally, that is the year our offense fell off.


Again, YAC is no issue at all. It's the ability to recognize when taking unnecessary hits is a bad idea.

Quote:
I'm not saying that I don't like Austin as a prospect, because I do, but taking him in the first round doesn't make sense to me.

Being that this forum is called "football's future", I'm not surprised that most posters prefer using a 1st round pick on the unproven Tavon Austin as opposed to using a lower 2nd round pick to trade for a guy who has proven to be one of the most dangerous and versatile weapons in the NFL. But when you add it up it defies conventional logic. And please spare me the injury BS.......


Why did Santonio Holmes get traded for a 5th? How many 4th rounders are more proven or likely to be better players?

Why didn't Brandon Marshall get traded for a 1st? WRs depreciate in value. Especially when they have injury issues, attitude issues or are looking for a new contact. You're looking at the full trifecta from above for Harvin.

Injury BS? You're sitting here saying Austin isn't worth a 1st because a guy who has never missed a game in college MIGHT get hurt.

Quote:
You keep bringing up Harvin's migraine history. Why? When was the last time the migraines were a factor? The guy gets put on IR for the first time in his career and suddenly he's injury prone? Give me a break.


I brought up his migraine history in regards to college. I've already defended him on the migraines in the NFL, get your facts straight before you come after me.

He's not suddenly injury prone. He's had nagging injuries throughout his NFL career and college career and has a pretty extensive injury history.


Harvin has played 14, 15, and 16 game seasons prior to this year, so his injuries haven't been the type that have caused him to miss playing time. Not only has he remained on the field, but he has remained productive also.

Being concerned for how a tiny player's (5-9, 170) body will hold up against the rigors of a 16 game NFL season is reasonable as far as I'm concerned. I've never said we shouldn't draft him, only that his size is a concern to me. He has gotten plenty of touches per game in college and held up, I'll give him credit for that.

As far as the migraines thing, I'm not "coming at you", but you've repeatedly used his migraines as a reason not to bring him to STL, and as a way of comparing his health risks to that of Tavon Austin's. I don't recall you defending him in any instance. Perhaps I missed it. I think we ought to let this Percy Harvin thing go. We're not going to agree, but I bet Joe Webb sure wishes he was playing for him right about now.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The J.R.S. wrote:


Harvin has played 14, 15, and 16 game seasons prior to this year, so his injuries haven't been the type that have caused him to miss playing time. Not only has he remained on the field, but he has remained productive also.


So counting college, he's played every game in only 1 of his last 7 seasons. That's not an issue?

Quote:
Being concerned for how a tiny player's (5-9, 170) body will hold up against the rigors of a 16 game NFL season is reasonable as far as I'm concerned. I've never said we shouldn't draft him, only that his size is a concern to me. He has gotten plenty of touches per game in college and held up, I'll give him credit for that.


I'm not saying it isn't although I think he'll check in heavier than 170. I'm saying he's never given any sort of indication that it's an issue.

Quote:
As far as the migraines thing, I'm not "coming at you", but you've repeatedly used his migraines as a reason not to bring him to STL, and as a way of comparing his health risks to that of Tavon Austin's. I don't recall you defending him in any instance. Perhaps I missed it. I think we ought to let this Percy Harvin thing go. We're not going to agree, but I bet Joe Webb sure wishes he was playing for him right about now.


Post one quote of me saying we shouldn't trade for Harvin because of his migraines. In fact, I corrected someone in the Harvin conversation when they said that. Here's the evidence:
jrry32 wrote:
I <3 Faulk wrote:


No, Danny cannot. Percy isn't enough of an upgrade though.

How will Harvin take over a game? Because he can return kicks? How often does that happen? Plus, the NFL is slowly moving towards taking that away.

Plus, the migrains scare me.


Danny can't? We've seen him do it twice this year...SF and Washington.

He hasn't had a migraine issue in a couple years since he said learned how to stop it...and what do you know...hasn't come up again.


jrry32 wrote:
I <3 Faulk wrote:



Ya he has... I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that. That's my bad.

And the migrains, they're like concussions no? They can come back at anytime.

Just to get you're opinion on it. Do you think Harvin is enough of an upgrade from Amendola to warant what it would cost to pay and acquire him?


No, I probably wouldn't deal for him unless he was really cheap. And no, concussions don't just come back at anytime...neither do migraines if you find out how to manage it.


http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=504080&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=315

I never brought up migraines as a reason not to trade for him. You're misremembering.
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Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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DEE RAWL


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was the one who brought up the migraines but I never said that was THE reason I dont like the idea of the trade. I simply said that even when he played sometimes he still wasnt healthy.
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you really think Alec Ogletree will be there in the middle of the second? I think that's a better spot for him than all of the mocks I have seen with him going in the first round, but it seems like his stock is higher than that.

Then again, I am always preaching that a lot changes in the months leading to the draft... but still.
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StLunatic88


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
Do you really think Alec Ogletree will be there in the middle of the second? I think that's a better spot for him than all of the mocks I have seen with him going in the first round, but it seems like his stock is higher than that.

Then again, I am always preaching that a lot changes in the months leading to the draft... but still.
I dont think he is anywhere close to our second round pick. Personally Im not sure he is there for the second of our 1st round picks.

At worst Ogletree should be the 2nd true LB off the board. And Personally I would take him over the Hype-Machine that is Manti Te'o, especially if you are looking for a MLB.

As Prospects (not college players/what they are right now) I would take both Ogletree and Minther over Te'o every day. To me Te'o is a SLB or SILB and nothing more, and should be well behind Jarvis Jones in those rankings
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
Do you really think Alec Ogletree will be there in the middle of the second? I think that's a better spot for him than all of the mocks I have seen with him going in the first round, but it seems like his stock is higher than that.

Then again, I am always preaching that a lot changes in the months leading to the draft... but still.


Eh, I don't know some substance abuse and character red flags as well as him struggling getting off blocks might hurt him. Never know. Always seems like some unexpected player falls. So just a shot in the dark.
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The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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I <3 Faulk


Joined: 01 May 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we're replacing Amendola, I would rather do it with Woods. Do you like Austin more than Woods in the slot?
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I <3 Faulk wrote:
I am literally laughing out loud. Genius!

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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I <3 Faulk wrote:
If we're replacing Amendola, I would rather do it with Woods. Do you like Austin more than Woods in the slot?


Yes. Much more.
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The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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DEE RAWL


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
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Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
I <3 Faulk wrote:
If we're replacing Amendola, I would rather do it with Woods. Do you like Austin more than Woods in the slot?


Yes. Much more.


Much more? Idk about all that.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEE RAWL wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
I <3 Faulk wrote:
If we're replacing Amendola, I would rather do it with Woods. Do you like Austin more than Woods in the slot?


Yes. Much more.


Much more? Idk about all that.


Much more. He doesn't touch Austin on ability with the ball in his hands or explosiveness.
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The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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DEE RAWL


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
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Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
DEE RAWL wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
I <3 Faulk wrote:
If we're replacing Amendola, I would rather do it with Woods. Do you like Austin more than Woods in the slot?


Yes. Much more.


Much more? Idk about all that.


Much more. He doesn't touch Austin on ability with the ball in his hands or explosiveness.


I couldnt disagree more. Yes Austin is "shiftier" and faster but Woods offers quite a but in that department as well. Not enough to be night and day difference. Furthermore, Woods offers more as a WR on a broader scale.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEE RAWL wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
DEE RAWL wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
I <3 Faulk wrote:
If we're replacing Amendola, I would rather do it with Woods. Do you like Austin more than Woods in the slot?


Yes. Much more.


Much more? Idk about all that.


Much more. He doesn't touch Austin on ability with the ball in his hands or explosiveness.


I couldnt disagree more. Yes Austin is "shiftier" and faster but Woods offers quite a but in that department as well. Not enough to be night and day difference. Furthermore, Woods offers more as a WR on a broader scale.


Which is why if we were talking about being an outside WR, it would be a different conversation.

But it's absolutely night and day. To imply that Woods is anywhere near Austin's level as a runner would be highly questionable.
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The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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DEE RAWL


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, there is without a doubt a difference in their YAC abilities but IMO it is not by a significant amount. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEE RAWL wrote:
Again, there is without a doubt a difference in their YAC abilities but IMO it is not by a significant amount. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one.


It's like comparing Dalton's arm strength to Stafford's. Austin is an elite YAC runner. You rarely find guys who can do what he can with the ball in his hands. Woods is pretty good at it. Nothing special.

I don't know how you can sit here and argue there's not a significant difference.
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The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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DEE RAWL


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just think their styles are different, while Austin is more fluid and smooth much like a runningback... Woods has more violent cuts from having to run outside receiver routes. Both are very good in what they do and I honestly think depending on how they are used with their respective teams in the slot (if that is where Woods is used) Woods could have just as much if not more success. Austin however will clearly have more success with YAC in hid career but that is because of the way he will be used in the NFL as opposed to Woods.

Again my arguement isnt who is better it is by how much.

That being said, I would prefer Woods in the slot and that has little do with with where he is from.
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