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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YlionsY wrote:
ManeLine wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
ManeLine wrote:
Bears go 10-6, they fire their coach. We go 4-12 with 3/4 losing seasons and looks like we'll keep him. Sigh.


Yet you negate fact Bears gave Lovie Smith 9 seasons.


Schwartz has had 4 seasons to turn it around and hasn't yet it looks like he'll stay.

Meanwhile, Lovie Smith won 3 division titles, a conference title, has a winning record and just went 10-6...he gets fired. I guess it just shows the difference in expectations for the two teams...


Different situations. In his ninth year and bringing in Marshall, I'm sure the Bears were expecting more at this point. And the firing is a bit surprising.

Schwartz has had 4 years and became coach of a historically bad team. Lovie Smith didn't inherit that black hole of talent that Schwartz did.

While I'm not all for Schwartz I think he deserves one more year.
While it wasn't 0-16 bad, it was really, really, really, really bad when he got here.
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GeneralTso


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:


Yea I am not sure how he is even comparing two. Better GM and talent for Lovie in Chicago when he took over.

Guess some people will really stretch reality in order to support a cause


If you really believe Jerry Angelo is better than Mayhew.. you're the only one stretching reality then.

Simply put, even if you throw out the first year in Schwartz's record, that's still 2 out of 3 losing seasons.
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detfan782004


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralTso wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:


Yea I am not sure how he is even comparing two. Better GM and talent for Lovie in Chicago when he took over.

Guess some people will really stretch reality in order to support a cause


If you really believe Jerry Angelo is better than Mayhew.. you're the only one stretching reality then.

Simply put, even if you throw out the first year in Schwartz's record, that's still 2 out of 3 losing seasons.




Mayhew has done nothing outside picking the safe logical choice in round 1

He gets far too much credit for what little he has actually done
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:


Yea I am not sure how he is even comparing two. Better GM and talent for Lovie in Chicago when he took over.

Guess some people will really stretch reality in order to support a cause


If you really believe Jerry Angelo is better than Mayhew.. you're the only one stretching reality then.

Simply put, even if you throw out the first year in Schwartz's record, that's still 2 out of 3 losing seasons.




Mayhew has done nothing outside picking the safe logical choice in round 1

He gets far too much credit for what little he has actually done
This has been so true.
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GeneralTso


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:


Yea I am not sure how he is even comparing two. Better GM and talent for Lovie in Chicago when he took over.

Guess some people will really stretch reality in order to support a cause


If you really believe Jerry Angelo is better than Mayhew.. you're the only one stretching reality then.

Simply put, even if you throw out the first year in Schwartz's record, that's still 2 out of 3 losing seasons.




Mayhew has done nothing outside picking the safe logical choice in round 1

He gets far too much credit for what little he has actually done


I honestly think Mayhew should be fired and this isn't the first time I've criticized him, but Angelo seriously left a mess there in Chicago. Jay Cutler is still feeling the effects of his lack of offensive line.
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Yeah, [Mike] Wallace would be like 4th fastest on the Raiders.
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detfan782004


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralTso wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:


Yea I am not sure how he is even comparing two. Better GM and talent for Lovie in Chicago when he took over.

Guess some people will really stretch reality in order to support a cause


If you really believe Jerry Angelo is better than Mayhew.. you're the only one stretching reality then.

Simply put, even if you throw out the first year in Schwartz's record, that's still 2 out of 3 losing seasons.




Mayhew has done nothing outside picking the safe logical choice in round 1

He gets far too much credit for what little he has actually done


I honestly think Mayhew should be fired and this isn't the first time I've criticized him, but Angelo seriously left a mess there in Chicago. Jay Cutler is still feeling the effects of his lack of offensive line.


True but he assembled a good defense that was identity of team and won them games.

Detroit has no identity
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LionsFTW


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:


Yea I am not sure how he is even comparing two. Better GM and talent for Lovie in Chicago when he took over.

Guess some people will really stretch reality in order to support a cause


If you really believe Jerry Angelo is better than Mayhew.. you're the only one stretching reality then.

Simply put, even if you throw out the first year in Schwartz's record, that's still 2 out of 3 losing seasons.




Mayhew has done nothing outside picking the safe logical choice in round 1

He gets far too much credit for what little he has actually done


I honestly think Mayhew should be fired and this isn't the first time I've criticized him, but Angelo seriously left a mess there in Chicago. Jay Cutler is still feeling the effects of his lack of offensive line.


True but he assembled a good defense that was identity of team and won them games.

Detroit has no identity


That defense lived off of Brian Urlacher... in whom he did not draft.
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detfan782004


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LionsFTW wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:


Yea I am not sure how he is even comparing two. Better GM and talent for Lovie in Chicago when he took over.

Guess some people will really stretch reality in order to support a cause


If you really believe Jerry Angelo is better than Mayhew.. you're the only one stretching reality then.

Simply put, even if you throw out the first year in Schwartz's record, that's still 2 out of 3 losing seasons.




Mayhew has done nothing outside picking the safe logical choice in round 1

He gets far too much credit for what little he has actually done


I honestly think Mayhew should be fired and this isn't the first time I've criticized him, but Angelo seriously left a mess there in Chicago. Jay Cutler is still feeling the effects of his lack of offensive line.


True but he assembled a good defense that was identity of team and won them games.

Detroit has no identity


That defense lived off of Brian Urlacher... in whom he did not draft.



Urlacher face but Briggs who he drafted made the defense
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LionsFTW


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
LionsFTW wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:


Yea I am not sure how he is even comparing two. Better GM and talent for Lovie in Chicago when he took over.

Guess some people will really stretch reality in order to support a cause


If you really believe Jerry Angelo is better than Mayhew.. you're the only one stretching reality then.

Simply put, even if you throw out the first year in Schwartz's record, that's still 2 out of 3 losing seasons.




Mayhew has done nothing outside picking the safe logical choice in round 1

He gets far too much credit for what little he has actually done


I honestly think Mayhew should be fired and this isn't the first time I've criticized him, but Angelo seriously left a mess there in Chicago. Jay Cutler is still feeling the effects of his lack of offensive line.


True but he assembled a good defense that was identity of team and won them games.

Detroit has no identity


That defense lived off of Brian Urlacher... in whom he did not draft.



Urlacher face but Briggs who he drafted made the defense


Briggs is a product or Urlacher. You honestly think Briggs wiuld be the player he is if he never player with Brian?
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
LionsFTW wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:


Yea I am not sure how he is even comparing two. Better GM and talent for Lovie in Chicago when he took over.

Guess some people will really stretch reality in order to support a cause


If you really believe Jerry Angelo is better than Mayhew.. you're the only one stretching reality then.

Simply put, even if you throw out the first year in Schwartz's record, that's still 2 out of 3 losing seasons.




Mayhew has done nothing outside picking the safe logical choice in round 1

He gets far too much credit for what little he has actually done


I honestly think Mayhew should be fired and this isn't the first time I've criticized him, but Angelo seriously left a mess there in Chicago. Jay Cutler is still feeling the effects of his lack of offensive line.


True but he assembled a good defense that was identity of team and won them games.

Detroit has no identity


That defense lived off of Brian Urlacher... in whom he did not draft.



Urlacher face but Briggs who he drafted made the defense
Please go watch games from 2009 where Urlacher was on the sidelines the whole year. Defense was no where near the same, or even competitive.

Angelo drafted Briggs, Tillman, Alex Brown, and Tommie Harris. He also drafted a slew of DBs who are out of the league, Jarron Gilbert (who never fit the defense to begin with) Tank Johnson, Dan Bazuin, Michael Okwo, Mark Anderson, Marcus Harrison etc...

When Lovie first got to Chicago, Urlacher and Mike Brown made that defense work. Players that Angelo didn't draft.

He did however go out and build a top 5 OL from FA by signing top guy John Tait and a player everyone assumed was well beyond his prime in perrennial probowler Reuben Brown. He extended Fred Miller's career a few years, but a few years too many. And it worked...for 2 years. Then it fell apart almost as quickly as it was put together. And Jerry Angelo ignored the position from then on out. We knew we had an aging OL in 2007, so we draft 1 OL in 2008 w/in the first 5 rounds of the draft. None in 2009, none in 2010, 1 more in 2011. Our best drafted OL at this point is 7th round OG/TE Lance Louis, and 7th round OT J'marcus Webb. Both 1st rounders turned out to be busts (Chris Williams and Gabe Carimi). NONE of JAs first rounders from his entire time drafting (other than aforementioned bust Gabe Carimi) are still on the team. The only offensive player drafted by Jerry Angelo to make a probowl, Matt Forte. Hell the only offensive players drafted by Jerry Angelo still on the team, Matt Forte, Earl Bennett, Kellen Davis (all 2008 picks where the Bears had 11 picks) Lance Louis, & J'Marcus Webb (along w/ aforementioned bust Gabe Carimi).
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
LionsFTW wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:


Yea I am not sure how he is even comparing two. Better GM and talent for Lovie in Chicago when he took over.

Guess some people will really stretch reality in order to support a cause


If you really believe Jerry Angelo is better than Mayhew.. you're the only one stretching reality then.

Simply put, even if you throw out the first year in Schwartz's record, that's still 2 out of 3 losing seasons.




Mayhew has done nothing outside picking the safe logical choice in round 1

He gets far too much credit for what little he has actually done


I honestly think Mayhew should be fired and this isn't the first time I've criticized him, but Angelo seriously left a mess there in Chicago. Jay Cutler is still feeling the effects of his lack of offensive line.


True but he assembled a good defense that was identity of team and won them games.

Detroit has no identity


That defense lived off of Brian Urlacher... in whom he did not draft.



Urlacher face but Briggs who he drafted made the defense
Please go watch games from 2009 where Urlacher was on the sidelines the whole year. Defense was no where near the same, or even competitive.

Angelo drafted Briggs, Tillman, Alex Brown, and Tommie Harris. He also drafted a slew of DBs who are out of the league, Jarron Gilbert (who never fit the defense to begin with) Tank Johnson, Dan Bazuin, Michael Okwo, Mark Anderson, Marcus Harrison etc...

When Lovie first got to Chicago, Urlacher and Mike Brown made that defense work. Players that Angelo didn't draft.

He did however go out and build a top 5 OL from FA by signing top guy John Tait and a player everyone assumed was well beyond his prime in perrennial probowler Reuben Brown. He extended Fred Miller's career a few years, but a few years too many. And it worked...for 2 years. Then it fell apart almost as quickly as it was put together. And Jerry Angelo ignored the position from then on out. We knew we had an aging OL in 2007, so we draft 1 OL in 2008 w/in the first 5 rounds of the draft. None in 2009, none in 2010, 1 more in 2011. Our best drafted OL at this point is 7th round OG/TE Lance Louis, and 7th round OT J'marcus Webb. Both 1st rounders turned out to be busts (Chris Williams and Gabe Carimi). NONE of JAs first rounders from his entire time drafting (other than aforementioned bust Gabe Carimi) are still on the team. The only offensive player drafted by Jerry Angelo to make a probowl, Matt Forte. Hell the only offensive players drafted by Jerry Angelo still on the team, Matt Forte, Earl Bennett, Kellen Davis (all 2008 picks where the Bears had 11 picks) Lance Louis, & J'Marcus Webb (along w/ aforementioned bust Gabe Carimi).


Lovie Smith, in my opinion did a good job in Chicago.

His firing makes me wonder why Schwartz and gang are still employed.
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LION KING


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lovie had 9 years and only 3 playoff appearances is why!

Some times owners just need a change after 9 years its time to move on.
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wilson2k3


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the radio today on 670 the Score in Chicago, Mike Florio was on and he said its possible another 5 coaches could end up losing their job on top of those who already been fired.

If I remember rightly he only mentioned 3 of the 5 teams, those being The Texans only if they get beat badly against the Bengals or just plain lose, the Cowboys only if Jerry Jones has the guy he wants ready to take over, and the Panthers, if they can find someone right for Cam Newton.

Titans, Raiders and or Lions could be the other 2 of the 3 teams he was talking about.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
Lovie Smith, in my opinion did a good job in Chicago.

His firing makes me wonder why Schwartz and gang are still employed.

Coincidentally, Lovie Smith experienced the exact same decline during his 4th season as head coach of the Bears as Schwartz did during his 4th season as head coach of the Lions. Both coaches won 6 fewer games that season than they did the year prior.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
Lovie Smith, in my opinion did a good job in Chicago.

His firing makes me wonder why Schwartz and gang are still employed.

Coincidentally, Lovie Smith experienced the exact same decline during his 4th season as head coach of the Bears as Schwartz did during his 4th season as head coach of the Lions. Both coaches won 6 fewer games that season than they did the year prior.


Exact same decline I'd seriously question, big time. After reaching the super bowl, and not just the playoffs, That bears staff lost alot of key coaches, including Ron Rivera among others. More left after him too, four other members of Smith's staff, 5 coaches total left the team. Thats like near half a staff.

The Bears decline was from the top, 12-3 coming from the Super-bowl. Our decline is coming from a wild card playoff birth and 9-8, and no coaching changes and really hardley any pesonnel changes at all.

Sure, one aspect, the total amount of wins changed to losses within the season(6) but everything else is quite different in-terms of our decline compaired to the Bears. Even the records Bears(7-9), Lions(4-12). Honestly I could of stomached 7-9 if that was our "decline". Especailly if you wanna compair Rex Grossmans development to Staffords. It's embarressing Lions let this happen with Stafford/ Calvin Johnson on the same team.
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