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To be honest, this bothers me…
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 3161
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:36 am    Post subject: To be honest, this bothers me… Reply with quote

Look, I think Steve Spagnuolo is a great guy. I’ve never meet the man but I’m sure he’s a standup individual and someone who want to be around. Sure he’s had some stout defenses in the past but in all fairness he also had some unbelievable talent as well. He parlayed that talent into his shot as a head coach in the NFL for the first time in St. Louis where he was fired last season.

The Saints hired Spagnuolo to help them win a Super Bowl… Even with Payton onboard I doubt anyone thinks that this defense would have been remotely viable to help us do that. Steve Spagnuolo was not hired to start a rebuilding project. A lot of fans will look to Spags and say hey, “the defense is coming around and he just needs time and talent”. I tend to look at things like; well that’s not what he was hired to do…

Mike Nolan was hired by Atlanta this offseason to help the Falcons get over the hump and he isn’t using any of those excuses. The Falcons didn’t change their talent level on defense drastically… hell, in fact we landed one of their best defenders for Spagnuolo. While Nolan’s Atlanta defense isn’t the league’s best, they are a very aggressive, disciplined, sure tackling bunch who creates turnovers.

I think Spagnuolo is getting way too much of a pass here. Good or bad, were talking about a man that has overseen statically the WORST defense in NFL history! Save me the whole “they showed improvement” or “he just needs talent” talk.

THE WORST DEFENSE IN NFL HISTORY!!!

Just in case you never heard me… Why should Spagnuolo get a pass when others never would? Look, I understand that Spags isn’t likely going anywhere and that I’m just wasting my time here but it gets under my skin when I see fans show unlimited support for a man who has failed miserably when others before him were run out of town for way less.

THE WORST DEFENSE IN NFL HISTORY!!!

That’s right boys and girls… Remember Gary Gibbs? Well Spags is worse! The proofs in the pudding, yeah maybe more talent could make him a better DC but couldn’t that be said for any defensive coach?

THE WORST DEFENSE IN NFL HISTORY!!!

Make all the excuses you want… that’s a statement that just dosen't sit right with me no matter what!
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thesolution


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I'm not making excuses for Spags but the talent on this defense SUCKs. It took them half the year to figure out the defense and they still was trash. He need talent PERIOD.. Also I think he build the Rams defense up pretty good.
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thesolution wrote:
Well I'm not making excuses for Spags but the talent on this defense SUCKs. It took them half the year to figure out the defense and they still was trash. He need talent PERIOD.. Also I think he build the Rams defense up pretty good.


Last season Thomas Decloud and William Moore looked like the worst two safties in the league, Grimes and Lofton were two of the Falcons top defenders (both lost) and John Abraham is old while Ray Edwards was cut half way through the year.

At some point ya can't just say, these guys suck... MAKE THEM BETTER! That's what good coaches do.

I know I may be in the minority here but Spags has failed and failed bad and it ani't ALL the players fault.

In the NFL you build a system around the talent... not the other way around
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jcvoodoo


Joined: 26 Jan 2012
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Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
thesolution wrote:
Well I'm not making excuses for Spags but the talent on this defense SUCKs. It took them half the year to figure out the defense and they still was trash. He need talent PERIOD.. Also I think he build the Rams defense up pretty good.


Last season Thomas Decloud and William Moore looked like the worst two safties in the league, Grimes and Lofton were two of the Falcons top defenders (both lost) and John Abraham is old while Ray Edwards was cut half way through the year.

At some point ya can't just say, these guys suck... MAKE THEM BETTER! That's what good coaches do.

I know I may be in the minority here but Spags has failed and failed bad and it ani't ALL the players fault.

In the NFL you build a system around the talent... not the other way around


Think you may be overreacting a tad here Worm. The lack of a true head coach means alot. We need a few different faces on the defense. One major position that needs an overhaul is safety (both SS and FS). While Jenkins has shows flashes of great potential... he didn't seem to put it together. Harper is a good SS but wrong in so many ways for this scheme. Also, this year is in the books... allow Spags a chance to prove something. You mentioned he was hired to get us to another SB. Newsflash: We lost our head coach and other coaches and a GM for almost half the year. Doesn't that count for something?

What's the saying? Ya can't polish a turd... I'm not saying that all defensive players in New Orleans suck. I'm merely saying don't expect miracles with the circumstances this team found themselves in.

Look, a 7-9 season is bad considering the previous 5 seasons... us fans are used to seeing this team win after so many mediocre to terrible seasons. IT'S FRUSTRATING... I get it.
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sammymvpknight


Joined: 22 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the lack of cap space and draft picks, this defense its going to take years to improve under the current system. I think that the Saints brought Spags into an impossible situation this year. He needs at least some personnel that fits a 4-3 zone with a front four capable of pass rush. The Saints had none of that. If you have a RDE and UT incapable of being pass rush, your not going to get pass rush. The Saints CB are man to man corners. And the personnel better fits a 3-4. Hicks, Bunkley, and Jordan would work on the line. Hawthorne and Lofton would make a great MLB corp. much more natural fit for Hawthorne than WLB. Wilson and Galette are natural 3-4 OLB. The Saints would need to bring in competition for OLB...but that would not be near as difficult as finding a 4-3 RDE. The CBs would likely not a complete overhaul because there are pieces to work with. Either way...safety needs to be improved. But safety is the least important position on defense. You can find a safety in free agency and later in the stay that will be able to upgrade the situation.

This defense would require a huge multi-year rebuild to work with the current system. The defense would improve if the correct system was put in place next season. The Saints need a coach that runs a 3-4 man to man system.
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FLOODx


Joined: 26 Feb 2009
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Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no excuse to have the worst defense in NFL history, let me start off by saying that. I also think you're overreacting a tad bit. I do believe he should feel like he's on the hot seat for the pathetic defensive show we put on all year, but the talent level is atrocious. His system revolves around a four man rush that can get pressure, and man coverage. We have arguably the two worst covering safeties in the league, and possibly the worst D line in the league when it comes to getting pressure on the QB. I think we're one good pass rusher and 2 decent safeties away from at least having a middle of the pack defense. I think we should be able to win the Super Bowl with a defense ranked 16-20th.
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FLOODx


Joined: 26 Feb 2009
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Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not making excuses, but you can't tell me the players weren't effected by the bounty accusations all year. Vilma and Smith may have little to no impact, but we still had to plan around if they were going to be there or not. One thing I envy when I watch good defenses like Seattle and SF other than a good pass rush is the ability to tackle. Their DBs are willing to tackle, and will actually wrap up. This is a league wide problem, but the Saints had to be the worst. So many broken tackles when the guy is met after a 3 yard gain and is able to fall forward for another 3 yards or break the tackle completely and go for the first down. Jenkins is the worst tackling safety I've ever seen, and I really hope he isn't our starting FS this year. I'm not giving Spags a "pass" but I'll give him one more full season with some new pieces to see what he can do.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll give him 1 more season before I'm asking for a serious change. The guy was thrown into as bad of a situation as you can be.
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Raves


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This year was about breaking bad habits and installing the defense. I think there is talent on the team, maybe not always the right fit for the scheme, but talented all the same.

The entire team was taught to play with bad habits with Gregg Williams was here. Now that he's had an entire year to try and break those habits, if it doesn't improve next year I'm done. He got a 1 year pass for taking over what he did, but next year it needs to be much improved.
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sammymvpknight


Joined: 22 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys are going to be disappointed next year. Spags is YEARS away from developing a decent defense. The Saints don't have cap space and draft picks.

Hawthorne and Vilma are awful at OLB. The Saints have no answer at RDE. People are acting like it will be easy to find a 4-3 RDE. It won't be. Half of the teams in the league are trying to find that guy. 3-4 OLB is much easier to find...certainly in the steady this year with most of the pass rusher projecting better to 3-4 OLB.
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Saint-Anger_13


Joined: 03 Mar 2012
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Location: Fairfax, IA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
thesolution wrote:
Well I'm not making excuses for Spags but the talent on this defense SUCKs. It took them half the year to figure out the defense and they still was trash. He need talent PERIOD.. Also I think he build the Rams defense up pretty good.


Last season Thomas Decloud and William Moore looked like the worst two safties in the league, Grimes and Lofton were two of the Falcons top defenders (both lost) and John Abraham is old while Ray Edwards was cut half way through the year.

At some point ya can't just say, these guys suck... MAKE THEM BETTER! That's what good coaches do.

I know I may be in the minority here but Spags has failed and failed bad and it ani't ALL the players fault.

In the NFL you build a system around the talent... not the other way around


May I also throw in there, that starting the season with Payton outcasted, Joe Vitt out six weeks, Spags first year in the program, and the first five games with a Oline coach who looked scared every game. I really think it was just a design of broken leadership. Honestly give a team that this would have happened to, WITH our same defense do you think it would have been different? maybe a game or two but not much.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raves wrote:
This year was about breaking bad habits and installing the defense. I think there is talent on the team, maybe not always the right fit for the scheme, but talented all the same.

The entire team was taught to play with bad habits with Gregg Williams was here. Now that he's had an entire year to try and break those habits, if it doesn't improve next year I'm done. He got a 1 year pass for taking over what he did, but next year it needs to be much improved.


I see it the same way, he stepped into one of the biggest messes in the NFL. I can't blame the guy for not being a miracle worker.
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SWATcha


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fire Spags, hire Lovie Smith. The Bears D (4-3) has been beast since Smith took over. Bears just fired him, so he's looking for work.
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QB Connoisseur


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SWATcha wrote:
Fire Spags, hire Lovie Smith. The Bears D (4-3) has been beast since Smith took over. Bears just fired him, so he's looking for work.


I would be pretty stunned if we fired a DC after one year... Especially since he didn't even get to work with Payton.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SWATcha wrote:
Fire Spags, hire Lovie Smith. The Bears D (4-3) has been beast since Smith took over. Bears just fired him, so he's looking for work.


We already have our head coach. I don't see Lovie taking a DC job, plenty of teams would be willing to bring him on as a HC.
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