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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7702
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SLCbear wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
The conversation starts and ends with,

We have been to the playoffs 1 time in 6 years that is 16% of the time.


If the team were dysfunctional, which it is not, then you look at replacing the top leader. We are weak on offense and strong everywhere else actually ......and certainly far from dycfunctional!!

What is making us weak on offense??
Staleness, its utter predictability, and the talent along the line! Lovie is not really responsible for any of these and led our team to a 10-6 finish (which could have easily turned out to be 12-4 if a couple of more plays fell our way)...

A couple of smart picks and a couple of smart FA adds, along with a smart OC hire can make this offense a top 10 unit ....to go along with its perenially dominant Defense and Special Teams! I'm worried that losing Lovie may even have the same effect, on this team, as losing Cutler ....Cutler hides alot of our weaknesses, as does Lovie Im sure; the locker room is always all about Lovie year in and year out!
Lovie has no business hiring, drafting or calling plays on Offense ...but he is absolutely one of the best at everything else a traditional HC is responsible for!
A coach clueless about offense has no business being a Head Coach. We need a complete Head Coach. It is foolish to believe Smith can chose the best offensive coaches. He has been shown NOT to pick good coaches and no one with any respect wants to work for him on offense.

There is no reason for the defense to decline because he leaves and our special teams are not special. There is no law that says Marinelli cannot be retained for the defense or that another HC would oppose it.

Lovie Smith will never win a Super Bowl and he has had PLENTY of time to contradict that statement.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7702
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
Bearsfan9310 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
No one is doubting that he wants to win a SB Superman. The speculation comes in to play on whether he likes the direction of this team right now.
He's an educated man so I have to believe he thinks improving by 2 games is progression. His decision comes down to whether he believes that talent or coaching is the problem. He came in and w/ 1 real change on the roster got 2 more wins. There was a major talent gap when he took over he knows that. Here's the question I have for all the Lovie haters, if the Bears have even an AVERAGE OL do they win that 1 extra game they needed this year?


Yes they could have made the playoffs with an average OL. But think about the overall picture. We started 7-1 and MISSED the playoffs. Everyone talked about the Bears being Super Bowl contenders at 7-1 and now what? We collapsed. Play-calling has sucked. The offense has been predictable. We didn't win enough against good teams. Sure, 10-6 is a good record. But what about our hyped up 13-3 or 12-4? It didn't happen.
Play calling was horrendous, no doubt. I have been screaming from the top of my lungs that Tice needs to run the football. Let's not forget 2 things here tho, 1) Tice's hire was universally lauded. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY thought it was a bad decision. None of us had any clue that a run game coordinator, OL coach would simply refuse to run the football. 2) Tice was completely hamstrung by a bottom 3 OL this year.

If I'm making the decision I extend Lovie for 2 years, keep Tice in place. Fix the OL thru both FA and the draft. And make it known that Lovie has to get to the playoffs next year. If I'm Lovie I then tell Tice I expect #22 to touch the football 20-25 times a game and anything less is unacceptable. If we get 3 games in and it ain't happening, Tice you go back to OL coach and Bates takes over playcalling.
How long will it take for you to admit that this is Lovie's team and his OC will do what HE wants?

HE determines the strategy not Tice.

How many OC will it take before you will admit we need a complete HC? Not one who is hands off while Disaster is going down.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7702
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
Bearsfan9310 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
No one is doubting that he wants to win a SB Superman. The speculation comes in to play on whether he likes the direction of this team right now.
He's an educated man so I have to believe he thinks improving by 2 games is progression. His decision comes down to whether he believes that talent or coaching is the problem. He came in and w/ 1 real change on the roster got 2 more wins. There was a major talent gap when he took over he knows that. Here's the question I have for all the Lovie haters, if the Bears have even an AVERAGE OL do they win that 1 extra game they needed this year?


Yes they could have made the playoffs with an average OL. But think about the overall picture. We started 7-1 and MISSED the playoffs. Everyone talked about the Bears being Super Bowl contenders at 7-1 and now what? We collapsed. Play-calling has sucked. The offense has been predictable. We didn't win enough against good teams. Sure, 10-6 is a good record. But what about our hyped up 13-3 or 12-4? It didn't happen.
Play calling was horrendous, no doubt. I have been screaming from the top of my lungs that Tice needs to run the football. Let's not forget 2 things here tho, 1) Tice's hire was universally lauded. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY thought it was a bad decision. None of us had any clue that a run game coordinator, OL coach would simply refuse to run the football. 2) Tice was completely hamstrung by a bottom 3 OL this year.

If I'm making the decision I extend Lovie for 2 years, keep Tice in place. Fix the OL thru both FA and the draft. And make it known that Lovie has to get to the playoffs next year. If I'm Lovie I then tell Tice I expect #22 to touch the football 20-25 times a game and anything less is unacceptable. If we get 3 games in and it ain't happening, Tice you go back to OL coach and Bates takes over playcalling.


That sounds completely out of the question now.
If he stays he will be extended. They aren't going to ask one of the most respected coaches in the NFL to play out the final year of his contract. It will be low money.
You are not even close. This "respect" is mythical. Just something media blowhards say. They are not going to extend this guy and pay him this kind of money for this kind of product.

It was a huge mistake to extend him the last time and there is even less excuse for it now, much less.

You would set it up to have to fire him with two years on the contract when they don't make the playoffs next year which they won't under Smith. Ridiculous.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7702
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SLCbear wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
Bearsfan9310 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
No one is doubting that he wants to win a SB Superman. The speculation comes in to play on whether he likes the direction of this team right now.
He's an educated man so I have to believe he thinks improving by 2 games is progression. His decision comes down to whether he believes that talent or coaching is the problem. He came in and w/ 1 real change on the roster got 2 more wins. There was a major talent gap when he took over he knows that. Here's the question I have for all the Lovie haters, if the Bears have even an AVERAGE OL do they win that 1 extra game they needed this year?


Yes they could have made the playoffs with an average OL. But think about the overall picture. We started 7-1 and MISSED the playoffs. Everyone talked about the Bears being Super Bowl contenders at 7-1 and now what? We collapsed. Play-calling has sucked. The offense has been predictable. We didn't win enough against good teams. Sure, 10-6 is a good record. But what about our hyped up 13-3 or 12-4? It didn't happen.
Play calling was horrendous, no doubt. I have been screaming from the top of my lungs that Tice needs to run the football. Let's not forget 2 things here tho, 1) Tice's hire was universally lauded. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY thought it was a bad decision. None of us had any clue that a run game coordinator, OL coach would simply refuse to run the football. 2) Tice was completely hamstrung by a bottom 3 OL this year.

If I'm making the decision I extend Lovie for 2 years, keep Tice in place. Fix the OL thru both FA and the draft. And make it known that Lovie has to get to the playoffs next year. If I'm Lovie I then tell Tice I expect #22 to touch the football 20-25 times a game and anything less is unacceptable. If we get 3 games in and it ain't happening, Tice you go back to OL coach and Bates takes over playcalling.


Id extend Lovie 2 more years also so he's not a lame duck coach, and we would be an attractive option for the right new OC ....Tice has to go!! I was able to predict his play calls 90+% of the time. If I can do that, then Im sure our opposition can predict his duma$$ even better!
No decent, experienced OC is going to work for Smith. Nothing could be more career killing for an OC.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 9280
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How can people say that we have improved and in the same breath say the only reason we were not in the playoffs last season was because Cutler got hurt. You cannot have it both ways.

Last season we were 8-8 Cutler missed 6 games.

This season we were 10-6 and Cutler missed 1.5 games.

The way I look at it we would have been at least 10-6 last season with games against KC, Oak and Den.

So we didn't really improve Cutler was healthier and we were equally average.
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WindyCity "He will start week 1 because while he is raw he is shockingly athletic and can pass block. Long is a bigger risk than Cooper and Warmack, but I think he has just as high a ceiling."
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7702
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
We have made the playoffs 1/6 seasons.

We have made the playoffs 33% of Lovie's years.

That is unacceptable.
This team has never EVER made the playoffs with Brandon Marshall on the team. HE MUST GO!


That doesn't address the argument so thank you for taking away from the conversation.

We went to the Superbowl in 2006 and some that point we have made the playoffs 1 time in the next 6 years that cannot be accepted.
That still doesn't mean we have to fire our head coach. Did the Dolphins cut Dan Marino when he couldn't lead them to the SB? What about Barry Sanders? You put more talent on this team and get a real OC and we're a SB contender.

You just want Lovie fired.

We we're a team with the arrow pointing down before we traded for Cutler. We have finally assembled a team with a good D AND a QB, RB, WRs. We have a few glaring holes but we can rebuild. You don't start over when you're as good as we are.


How good are we?

We have been to the playoffs 1 time in 6 years. My definition of good team means winning your division or making the playoffs.

We are an average team and that is not good enough.
What we did 6 years ago has nothing to do with how good we are now. We are a good team. We lost to good teams. Also 3 of our losses came with Cutler either not playing or being knocked out of the game. If we invest in the OL we make the playoffs.
We are by no means a good team at this point. We are a miserable team offensively and a fairly poor one against good teams defensively. At this point we are a mediocre team at best.

We were a good team for half a year but not a team capable of beating the best teams..
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sr7252 wrote:
It's a frustrating situation because we all know Lovie won't be unemployed long and if he goes to a team like the Browns I'm sure they'll actually not keep Lovie from managing the team in every way.

He'll make a team good, I think we all know that. But what else can you do but replace him at this point.
None of that is true. He might make a team's defense a little better but who in their right mind thinks he is going to create a good offense when every bit of evidence says just the opposite. Smith will not get a new head coaching job from any serious organization. Maybe some idiot outfit like the Cardinals.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From Greg Rosenthal

The Bears hired a new GM (Phil Emery) last offseason. Missing the playoffs after a 7-1 start conceivably could put coach Lovie Smith in jeopardy.

Chances of a change: Growing. NFL Network's Michael Lombardi said Sunday that sources around the NFL believe Smith "could be in jeopardy" whether or not the Bears make the playoffs.
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WindyCity "He will start week 1 because while he is raw he is shockingly athletic and can pass block. Long is a bigger risk than Cooper and Warmack, but I think he has just as high a ceiling."
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
DABEARSLCF04 wrote:
Say they keep Lovie Smith on but get rid of Tice. That would put the Bears in the same exact position as last year. Who would want to go to Chicago and take the OC job. It happened last year, and they ended up promoting Tice.


If they fire Tice then i bet Bates is promoted.


I'm still on the fence about if Lovie should keep his job or not. But i think a culture change would be good.
I think a culture change is the last thing this team needs. The players LOVE Lovie Smith b/c of his culture he's established. The players are treated like men. We have a VERY veteran team, not a team full of youngsters who need a Tom Coughlin kind of guy. The players know whats expected of them and disappointing Smith is like disappointing their father. You've never heard 1, not 1 bad thing ever said about Lovie Smith by a player or coach in the entire NFL. Let's also not forget how well Brandon Marshall has behaved since he's been here, likely a direct result of interaction w/ Lovie Smith and the culture he's established.
Boy, you will grasp at ANY straw, won't you? Smith's players regularly miss the playoffs and collapse in the second half every year. What they FEEL about him does not translate into victories.
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IronMike84


Joined: 17 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The elephant in the room here was the passing game. There were huge expectations for the passing offense this year, and besides #15 it fell wayyyyy short.

Why is that? Some people say the playcalling. At the same time, lets not forget that Alshon Jeffery, Earl Bennett, Devin Hester, and Kellen Davis were all supposed to be huge contributors this year, and all four of them were incredibly underwhelming for a number of reasons.

This was supposed to be a season where Jay was going to have more weapons, but that's not how it played out.
_________________
Rotoworld.com wrote:
...internet mock drafts, which have ridiculously become the measuring stick for where players are "supposed" to go.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaMike wrote:
Who are we 100% sure we can hire that we're 100% sure is better then Lovie?
I am 100% sure Smith will never win the Super Bowl and will always be searching for his OC.

He is not getting any better as a head coach either. His second year was his best as coach and there has been NO improvement. He still can't even make sure the plays get in on time. Or make sure certain plays are called when called for.

Don't you feel silly blaming everyone else for this incompetence?
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
Athelite wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
Athelite wrote:
I've always loved Jay back to his denver days, but he really is starting to wear on me. Why can't he have better stats than a damn rookie for crying out loud?? I mean 3000 yards?? In this day and age, that is pathetic for a starting QB. I know I know, what if he had a good offensive line or receivers, well he finally got his receiver and he didn't put up really big numbers and Aaron Rodgers has had a horrible offensive line and still puts up mind-blowing numbers.

I really wonder what kind of money Cutler is expecting becuase he sure as hell hasn't earned a top 10 QB contract going by the numbers..
You need to go back to the " is Jay the answer" thread. Jay's yardage totals are pretty much all about the # of attempts.
okay, what about TDs? or decreasing INTs? RG3, Luck , and Wilson ALL had more TD's, I mean really?
he only threw 14 INTs on the year, do you know who threw less INTs this year? As for TDs, going into this game he had had 7 passes hit targets in the hands in the endzone that were dropped. Today he threw 3 passes that should have been TDs that were not completed. You are talking about the difference of 19 TDs and 29 TDs.
If you are referring to the Davis throw - that was never going to be caught and was a bad pass. Or the one to Marshall on the sideline - that would have been a miraculous catch. But the real point is EVERY QB has drops so big deal. Cutler did not have a particularly great day by any means.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Look at today's game. We played the stupidest team in the league and barely ecked out a victory, OVER THE STUPIDEST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE.

FWIW New England almost lost to lowly Jacksonville last week, and this Detroit team is far more talented than the Jaguars.

I can see the arguments on both sides and really I'm not sure which side I fall upon even now that the season is over. On one hand he has to be accountable for the team missing the postseason but on the other his defense continues to be exceptional and that is certainly something we don't want to just throw away either. IMO he's a good coach but not a great one. It shouldn't be discounted that the biggest area of failure on this year's squad (the OL) was the one area Emery didn't address this offseason.

Emery could go two ways here - either just fire everyone and build the team his way, or continue to build up upon what was here when he arrived plus what he did last offseason and keep building where the deficiencies were in the team he inherited. For me, if he is fired then it can't be just for the sake of firing him - we need to hit with our next hire, and whether that coach is an offensive or defensive guy they absolutely need to do a better job than Lovie has done in hiring a coordinator for the other side of the ball who can make up for his deficiencies.
WRT the Lions I was saying nothing about its talent just its stupidity.

The problem is Smith's defense's are canceled by his offenses and he has shown no increased ability to address that offense.

Everyone keeps blaming the OC year after year without addressing the REAL problem.

You won't find anyone more patient than me but ten years is ridiculous.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
How can people say that we have improved and in the same breath say the only reason we were not in the playoffs last season was because Cutler got hurt. You cannot have it both ways.

Last season we were 8-8 Cutler missed 6 games.

This season we were 10-6 and Cutler missed 1.5 games.

The way I look at it we would have been at least 10-6 last season with games against KC, Oak and Den.

So we didn't really improve Cutler was healthier and we were equally average.
Good point.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IronMike84 wrote:
The elephant in the room here was the passing game. There were huge expectations for the passing offense this year, and besides #15 it fell wayyyyy short.

Why is that? Some people say the playcalling. At the same time, lets not forget that Alshon Jeffery, Earl Bennett, Devin Hester, and Kellen Davis were all supposed to be huge contributors this year, and all four of them were incredibly underwhelming for a number of reasons.

This was supposed to be a season where Jay was going to have more weapons, but that's not how it played out.
I tried to tell everyone that we would miss Knox big time and that is how it played out. If he had been there to stretch the field the other WRs would have kicked butt.

I figured Jeffery would be about 500 yds and thought Davis might be close to that but never counted on Hester or Bennett who seemed to disappear most of the year. Today he looked great. But is it real? We still need to draft a WR.
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