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WindyCity
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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 Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Superman(DH23) wrote: | Here's the differences you guys aren't realizing, and no one wants to hear it, but its the struggle a GM has to make between what's good for the team and what's good for the franchise. In NE the faces of the franchise are Bill Belichick and Tom Brady. Anyone else the fans aren't going to get too upset over losing, but you can bet that if BB goes to Tom Brady before he's ready to leave the game and says, Tom, we're going in a different direction, NE Pats fans will burn the stadium down. Anybody else its business, but w/ the face of the franchise its not business, its about fandom.
Brian Urlacher and Devin Hester have been the faces of this franchise for the last decade, moreso w/ Brian obviously. Now w/ Marshall on the team it makes it a little easier to part ways w/ Devin, but don't think there wouldn't be legions of fans calling for Emery's head if Devin went somewhere else and had another great year, while the Bears struggled in the return game. W/ Brian Emery is in a super tough spot, b/c its the end of his career. You want to let Brian walk away on his own terms, but its probably time for him to hang em up. Emery would lose a lot of fan support and probably locker room support if it became a messy divorce.
Urlacher and Hester still sell jersey's, still put butts in the seats. Keeping them on the team is still good for the FRANCHISE, but parting ways w/ 1 or maybe both may be better for the team. |
There is a financial motivation as you said.
I think that will be more in play with Brian than Hester.
But the most important thing in the financial side is wins and loses. And if the Bears win without Hester he will be forgotten quickly.
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AZBearsFan
Joined: 04 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:48 am Post subject: |
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Devin's 2013 cap hit (per Rotoworld) is $1.85M plus a $10M "deescalating roster bonus". He obviously will not reach most if any of the WR contract triggers, so the $1.85M cap number is hardly a killer and makes it easy to keep him next year financially on the hope that he breaks out of his returning slump. He just needs to be limited to only being used in the return game. He's been a disaster in the passing game this year outside of the one great diving catch against Dallas.
As for Brian, his statements throughout the year made it seem as though he understands his career is ending and that maybe he intends to retire after the season anyway (meaning we could be as little as 2 days away from an Urlacher retirement presser). If he doesn't retire I still think he can and should be brought back, but it has to be at the right price. Urlacher at 60% of what he used to be is still as good as or better than half of the starting MLB in the league, and that certainly has value. I could see him getting one of those 2 year $13M deals that is really just a 1 year $2.5M contract with add ins for performance like % of snaps played, making the pro bowl etc., and we still need to bring in his replacement this offseason. If he's still looking for $7M a season in real dollars though then Emery has to move on IMO.
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| GRRLacher wrote: | | I told you guys AZ was awesome...he in fact makes triple the pay I get for moderating here. |
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WindyCity
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| AZBearsFan wrote: | Devin's 2013 cap hit (per Rotoworld) is $1.85M plus a $10M "deescalating roster bonus". He obviously will not reach most if any of the WR contract triggers, so the $1.85M cap number is hardly a killer and makes it easy to keep him next year financially on the hope that he breaks out of his returning slump. He just needs to be limited to only being used in the return game. He's been a disaster in the passing game this year outside of the one great diving catch against Dallas.
As for Brian, his statements throughout the year made it seem as though he understands his career is ending and that maybe he intends to retire after the season anyway (meaning we could be as little as 2 days away from an Urlacher retirement presser). If he doesn't retire I still think he can and should be brought back, but it has to be at the right price. Urlacher at 60% of what he used to be is still as good as or better than half of the starting MLB in the league, and that certainly has value. I could see him getting one of those 2 year $13M deals that is really just a 1 year $2.5M contract with add ins for performance like % of snaps played, making the pro bowl etc., and we still need to bring in his replacement this offseason. If he's still looking for $7M a season in real dollars though then Emery has to move on IMO. |
When you are over 30 it stops being a slump and starts to be decline.
He doesn't have the world class speed anymore and that is how he made his money.
Not to mention Lovie and Jerry destroyed his psyche with the #1 WR stuff.
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Superman(DH23)
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| WindyCity wrote: | | AZBearsFan wrote: | Devin's 2013 cap hit (per Rotoworld) is $1.85M plus a $10M "deescalating roster bonus". He obviously will not reach most if any of the WR contract triggers, so the $1.85M cap number is hardly a killer and makes it easy to keep him next year financially on the hope that he breaks out of his returning slump. He just needs to be limited to only being used in the return game. He's been a disaster in the passing game this year outside of the one great diving catch against Dallas.
As for Brian, his statements throughout the year made it seem as though he understands his career is ending and that maybe he intends to retire after the season anyway (meaning we could be as little as 2 days away from an Urlacher retirement presser). If he doesn't retire I still think he can and should be brought back, but it has to be at the right price. Urlacher at 60% of what he used to be is still as good as or better than half of the starting MLB in the league, and that certainly has value. I could see him getting one of those 2 year $13M deals that is really just a 1 year $2.5M contract with add ins for performance like % of snaps played, making the pro bowl etc., and we still need to bring in his replacement this offseason. If he's still looking for $7M a season in real dollars though then Emery has to move on IMO. |
When you are over 30 it stops being a slump and starts to be decline.
He doesn't have the world class speed anymore and that is how he made his money.
Not to mention Lovie and Jerry destroyed his psyche with the #1 WR stuff. |
He never had world class speed, he had an ability to reach top gear almost instantaneously, unrivaled burst, and then on top of that the ability to completely stop in one step and immediately start back up again. He still has those traits, he just isn't making good decisions sometimes. Here's the rub, he's never made good decisions all the time. Go back and look at the early returns he had. He made poor decisions all the time, we just forgave those poor decisions b/c he made spectacular plays to go along w/ it. When he was in his slump he made poor decisions, but no plays so we noticed the slump. When he broke out of the slump he was making good decisions for a while, then started making poor ones again. Devin is the ultimate boom or bust player. He's going to make poor decisions, but the plays he makes makes up for them.
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| OneBadCat wrote: | | Ahah Okay first of all Gamble was lost to IR this year but when healthy he proved to be 2nd only to Revis last season. |
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WindyCity
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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4.26 in the 40 is the definition of world class speed.
He may have all those other things but he was always the fastest guy on the field and that is not the case anymore.
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AZBearsFan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| WindyCity wrote: | 4.26 in the 40 is the definition of world class speed.
He may have all those other things but he was always the fastest guy on the field and that is not the case anymore. |
He was clocked at 4.41 at the combine and 4.27 at the Miami pro day according to our site.
| Quote: | March 4, 2006
(11:00pm) Representatives from all 32 teams attended Miami's pro day. Devin Hester ran an impressive 4.27 40-yard dash. This followed his 'poor' 4.41 at the combine. |
Reality is probably somewhere in between. I agree with Sup though that his agility and acceleration were what made him elite more than his speed. I don't remember any of his returns where he just ran by everyone but I remember a whole bunch where he danced around a few guys or made two quick cuts to get behind everyone.
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| GRRLacher wrote: | | I told you guys AZ was awesome...he in fact makes triple the pay I get for moderating here. |
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Superman(DH23)
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| WindyCity wrote: | 4.26 in the 40 is the definition of world class speed.
He may have all those other things but he was always the fastest guy on the field and that is not the case anymore. |
He was never the fastest guy on the team, let alone the fastest guy on the field.
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| OneBadCat wrote: | | Ahah Okay first of all Gamble was lost to IR this year but when healthy he proved to be 2nd only to Revis last season. |
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Sr7252
Joined: 20 Dec 2012
Posts: 144
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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I hope we keep both ONLY if Hester returns only.
U guys trulydon't understand..he really is the greatest return man. There's a method to his madness, he can't do well while playing WR & PR/KR. |
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AZBearsFan
Joined: 04 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Sr7252 wrote: | I hope we keep both ONLY if Hester returns only.
U guys trulydon't understand..he really is the greatest return man. There's a method to his madness, he can't do well while playing WR & PR/KR. |
Why do you think we don't understand?
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| GRRLacher wrote: | | I told you guys AZ was awesome...he in fact makes triple the pay I get for moderating here. |
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WindyCity
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 6831
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Sr7252 wrote: | I hope we keep both ONLY if Hester returns only.
U guys trulydon't understand..he really is the greatest return man. There's a method to his madness, he can't do well while playing WR & PR/KR. |
He was the greatest return man ever.
But age and decline wait for no one and he is on the decline.
Not to mention Lovie and Jerry ruined him with all this WR garbage over the last 4 years.
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AZBearsFan
Joined: 04 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| WindyCity wrote: | | Sr7252 wrote: | I hope we keep both ONLY if Hester returns only.
U guys trulydon't understand..he really is the greatest return man. There's a method to his madness, he can't do well while playing WR & PR/KR. |
He was the greatest return man ever.
But age and decline wait for no one and he is on the decline.
Not to mention Lovie and Jerry ruined him with all this WR garbage over the last 4 years. |
If Angelo and Smith "ruined him" the past 4 years then how do you explain the 6 combined return TDs he had in 2010 and 2011? If anything he was more of a factor in the offense the past 2 years than this year.
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| GRRLacher wrote: | | I told you guys AZ was awesome...he in fact makes triple the pay I get for moderating here. |
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Nads786
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 3691
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| AZBearsFan wrote: | | WindyCity wrote: | | Sr7252 wrote: | I hope we keep both ONLY if Hester returns only.
U guys trulydon't understand..he really is the greatest return man. There's a method to his madness, he can't do well while playing WR & PR/KR. |
He was the greatest return man ever.
But age and decline wait for no one and he is on the decline.
Not to mention Lovie and Jerry ruined him with all this WR garbage over the last 4 years. |
If Angelo and Smith "ruined him" the past 4 years then how do you explain the 6 combined return TDs he had in 2010 and 2011? If anything he was more of a factor in the offense the past 2 years than this year. |
Pretty sure they reduced his snaps during that span when he "had his mojo back."
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51to54
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 1529
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| AZBearsFan wrote: | Devin's 2013 cap hit (per Rotoworld) is $1.85M plus a $10M "deescalating roster bonus". He obviously will not reach most if any of the WR contract triggers, so the $1.85M cap number is hardly a killer and makes it easy to keep him next year financially on the hope that he breaks out of his returning slump. He just needs to be limited to only being used in the return game. He's been a disaster in the passing game this year outside of the one great diving catch against Dallas.
As for Brian, his statements throughout the year made it seem as though he understands his career is ending and that maybe he intends to retire after the season anyway (meaning we could be as little as 2 days away from an Urlacher retirement presser). If he doesn't retire I still think he can and should be brought back, but it has to be at the right price. Urlacher at 60% of what he used to be is still as good as or better than half of the starting MLB in the league, and that certainly has value. I could see him getting one of those 2 year $13M deals that is really just a 1 year $2.5M contract with add ins for performance like % of snaps played, making the pro bowl etc., and we still need to bring in his replacement this offseason. If he's still looking for $7M a season in real dollars though then Emery has to move on IMO. |
Unless Urlacher is still healing up from 2011's injury, I fear 54 is done and the true "cost" of having him play in 2013 might be an ugly season to watch a HOF caliber player limp through one more season than he should have played. Regardless of how well he knows the defense, at some point you still have to be able to make some plays and get to your assignment.
Hester is strictly a return man and is no more an NFL WR than the last special teamer on your roster is a WR. The question is how good of a return man is he because he sure isn't going to play gunner when we punt.
Right now, as pessimistic as I am about Urlacher, I'd bring him back in your pay scale scenario long before I brought back Hester for 1.85 million. |
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