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Raiders QB Carson Palmer out for Week 17.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 15097
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
thelawoffices wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
@ jtagg, zoom and others just curious whats your top 10 all time qb list look like.

not really in any order

montana, brady, big ben, peyton, bradshaw, jim kelly, troy, eli, elway, steve young

hm: marino, arod, brees

note i didnt add the old guys like bart star and jonny u cause im only 31


Marino is undoubtedly better than the guys I bolded. I'd take him over Elway, too. Favre is better than all the guys I bolded, too. I'd take Kurt Warner over them as well.


if i had a championship game to play id ride or die with my top 10 over marino, farve and kurt anyday. farve and kurt would be in the hm though.


LOL Jim Kelly.... the guy who went 4 times and his team never won..............

LOLWUT


kelly owned the afc for how many years?
i cant remember anyone running the no-huddle untill i saw kelly he was a pioneer just ran into the cowboy dynasty
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 15097
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
bradshaw is arguably the most clutch qb ever esp in the playoffs imo where it counts the most.

bradshaw was a stud dont sleep on the guy. 30 playoff tds and you still think he didnt play a huge role in those SB runs?


30 TDs... in 19 games (with 26 picks, too). Look at the Steeler's defense in each of Bradshaw's Super Bowl win seasons. They were ranked, 1st, 2nd, 1st and 1st in PPG allowed.

Bradshaws stats from each Super Bowl:

1975- 9/14 96 yards 1 TD score: 16-6 (D forced 6 turnovers)
1976- 9/19 209 yards 2 TD score: 21-17 (D forced 3 turnovers)
1979- 17/30 318 yards 4 TD 1 INT score: 35-31
1980- 14/21 309 yards 2 TD 3 INT score: 31-19

75-76 look like Tebow numbers, 79 was a great game, 80 he threw more picks than TDs.

He also has 8 playoff games with more picks than TDs, 6 games completing under half his passes, and 9 games with 1 or no TD passes, and 3 games with under 100 yards passing. Thats not elite. The defense held the other team to 14 points or less in 11 of their wins. 30 TDs, 26 INTs, and a 57% completion rate in the playoffs isnt clutch IMO.


the nfl wasnt a passing league back then. qb's werent protected as much as they were back then. wr's used to get mauled on the line etc etc. i still stand by my terry b pick.
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 15097
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:

30 TDs... in 19 games (with 26 picks, too).


THAT'S NOT 2:1!!!!! NCOUGH has said many, many, many, many, many times (when talking about Palmer mind you) that he needs to see a QB have a 2:1 TD:INT ratio before saying they're any good.

Uh ohhhhhhhh


Haha

I know I'll get hate for this, but QBs like Bradshaw and Aikman never did enough IMO to be a top QB. I know stats arent everything, but Aikman only threw over 19 TDs once. For all the QB W/L record people, he only posted 5 double-digit win seasons in 12 years. In those 4 seasons, Dallas defense ranked 5th, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, and 3rd. Not to mention he had a guy named Emmitt Smith. Top-5 defense, top-3 RB, and a QB with a 8:7 TD:INT ratio... wonder why they were successfull.


imo troy, terry even farve fall under the eli section of qb's that dont look pretty doing it but find a way to get it done. eli's #'s are similar to cp's but imo you would be hard pressed to find anyone that would say cp>eli.
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
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Burgesskills


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1114
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So because of screen passes and Pierre garcon and Santa moss rg3 look this good? Really? That's the argument? Over 3000 yards passing 20 tds/ 5 ints and that's the argument? Why'd they even need him then? Couldn't grossman do the same thing with kyle and the offense around the qb...and I'm clueless..you guys say the stupidest things...I am embarrassed for you.
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Burgesskills


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1114
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you know what the pistol offense is darkness? It allows the qb to line up in a more shallow shotgun about 4 yards close enough to let the qb read the d and far enough to create more time, still he has to throw the ball, make reads, and avoid mistakes...his numbers aren't inflated because of the offense, he is just a good qb who will get better and better.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 8252
Location: CA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
Do you know what the pistol offense is darkness? It allows the qb to line up in a more shallow shotgun about 4 yards close enough to let the qb read the d and far enough to create more time, still he has to throw the ball, make reads, and avoid mistakes...his numbers aren't inflated because of the offense, he is just a good qb who will get better and better.


I'm not trying to take part in your guys' little pissing contests. Just pointing out the obvious that both offenses aren't the same like you said. Whatever that means to your argument is whatever.
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 3289
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Top Ten:

Montana
Peyton
Jim Kelly
Marino
Stabler
Farve
Warner
Stabauch
Elway
Steve Young
Moon
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 12328
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
My Top Ten:

Montana
Peyton
Jim Kelly
Marino
Stabler
Farve
Warner
Stabauch
Elway
Steve Young
Moon


No Brady? Ouch. He's most certainly better than Kelly and Warner and Moon
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 3289
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
My Top Ten:

Montana
Peyton
Jim Kelly
Marino
Stabler
Farve
Warner
Stabauch
Elway
Steve Young
Moon


No Brady? Ouch. He's most certainly better than Kelly and Warner and Moon


I don't really like Brady. I had this long post about why but I'd rather not fight all the Brady lovers.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 12328
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
My Top Ten:

Montana
Peyton
Jim Kelly
Marino
Stabler
Farve
Warner
Stabauch
Elway
Steve Young
Moon


No Brady? Ouch. He's most certainly better than Kelly and Warner and Moon


I don't really like Brady. I had this long post about wh
y but I'd rather not fight all the Brady lovers.


These lists aren't about who you like. They're about the top 10 must talented QBs in NFL history. Brady is definitely on that list and I'd be very interested to hear any reason why he shouldn't be.
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MTRaider


Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 375
Location: Stevensville, Montana
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a "clutch" situation, it's got to be Montana for me.
Purely from a stats point of view, today Marino with the receivers he had and the protection afforded QB's and receivers, would shatter any record out there!
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 3289
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
My Top Ten:

Montana
Peyton
Jim Kelly
Marino
Stabler
Farve
Warner
Stabauch
Elway
Steve Young
Moon


No Brady? Ouch. He's most certainly better than Kelly and Warner and Moon


I don't really like Brady. I had this long post about wh
y but I'd rather not fight all the Brady lovers.


These lists aren't about who you like. They're about the top 10 must talented QBs in NFL history. Brady is definitely on that list and I'd be very interested to hear any reason why he shouldn't be.


Matt Cassel:
Tom Brady goes down with a torn ACL to the Chiefs, and in comes his backup who hasn't played since high school. The Patriots go 10-6 and barely miss playoffs. I suppose you could argue that brady accounted for one of those wins but either way Cassel hasn't had the same impact on another team. He even curb stomped the raiders, he has done that since I'm glad to say.

Adam Veinitari:
Tom Brady has gone to 5 super bowls second most of QB's only to John Elway, but he has won only 3 of them and in those three it was Adam Veniteri who kicked the game winner. The last two against the Giants he has had to drive down and score a TD. A tall order to be sure, but as I hear so much he could do it, he has not, but a few of those guys on that list have.

Now in all honesty I believe the Patriots are a good TEAM. Bill Belichik has built a great team that can contend every year. Honestly if Brady where to be injured tomorrow, not saying I'd want that, I beleive the Patriots could still win a game or two.
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Dessie


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 4805
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
My Top Ten:

Montana
Peyton
Jim Kelly
Marino
Stabler
Farve
Warner
Stabauch
Elway
Steve Young
Moon


Pretty sure that is 11?
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bitty wrote:
I don't understand why everybody thinks Green Bay is the pinnacle of NFL franchises?
In my opinion they are a joke. In the last ten years there drafts sucked.
#clueless
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3755
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
My Top Ten:

Montana
Peyton
Jim Kelly
Marino
Stabler
Farve
Warner
Stabauch
Elway
Steve Young
Moon


No Brady? Ouch. He's most certainly better than Kelly and Warner and Moon


I don't really like Brady. I had this long post about wh
y but I'd rather not fight all the Brady lovers.


These lists aren't about who you like. They're about the top 10 must talented QBs in NFL history. Brady is definitely on that list and I'd be very interested to hear any reason why he shouldn't be.


Matt Cassel:
Tom Brady goes down with a torn ACL to the Chiefs, and in comes his backup who hasn't played since high school. The Patriots go 10-6 and barely miss playoffs. I suppose you could argue that brady accounted for one of those wins but either way Cassel hasn't had the same impact on another team. He even curb stomped the raiders, he has done that since I'm glad to say.

Adam Veinitari:
Tom Brady has gone to 5 super bowls second most of QB's only to John Elway, but he has won only 3 of them and in those three it was Adam Veniteri who kicked the game winner. The last two against the Giants he has had to drive down and score a TD. A tall order to be sure, but as I hear so much he could do it, he has not, but a few of those guys on that list have.

Now in all honesty I believe the Patriots are a good TEAM. Bill Belichik has built a great team that can contend every year. Honestly if Brady where to be injured tomorrow, not saying I'd want that, I beleive the Patriots could still win a game or two.


And they got caught cheating.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 12328
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:

Matt Cassel:
Tom Brady goes down with a torn ACL to the Chiefs, and in comes his backup who hasn't played since high school. The Patriots go 10-6 and barely miss playoffs. I suppose you could argue that brady accounted for one of those wins but either way Cassel hasn't had the same impact on another team. He even curb stomped the raiders, he has done that since I'm glad to say.

Adam Veinitari:
Tom Brady has gone to 5 super bowls second most of QB's only to John Elway, but he has won only 3 of them and in those three it was Adam Veniteri who kicked the game winner. The last two against the Giants he has had to drive down and score a TD. A tall order to be sure, but as I hear so much he could do it, he has not, but a few of those guys on that list have.

Now in all honesty I believe the Patriots are a good TEAM. Bill Belichik has built a great team that can contend every year. Honestly if Brady where to be injured tomorrow, not saying I'd want that, I beleive the Patriots could still win a game or two.


OK so you feel he's more a product of the system? I can dig that to an extent but to discredit all he's done and accomplished w/ basically no one at the WR position is a little unfair.
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