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Lebeau To return For 10th season
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Mason Storm


Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 476
Location: Hmm fire Tomlin of course y didnt i think of that oh yea because thats stupid.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like him but it's time.
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Chieferific


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stillersenat wrote:
My take: In the end the only things I think about are 1.) Will Butler stay around yet again? I always worry that Butler would leave and then Lebeau leaves a year later leaving us with nobody. 2.)Will Lebeau continue to adapt. This year brought about a big change in philosophy-a lot more man a bump and run coverage. The reasoning behind the decision can only be guessed at, but it played to the strengths of our CBs who were trained in man type coverage rather than soft zone. The results were dramatic-the DBs as a whole played lights out without a steady pass rush. I would hope the trend would continue with the DL. It's time to let Hood and Heyward play more 1 gap play calls and let them play to their strengths.

Is it your belief they are drafting non "Lebeau" players intentionally with the idea of moving away from his style? I remember hearing that as far back as the Timmons pick. He's worked out well. Truth is, true 3-4 players are rare. Especially when you pick in the 20's and 30's every year. Sometimes you have to just draft the closest thing to what you want cause that's all that's left. If your simply stating that these players are more effective in different schemes, I'd agree. If your claiming they were drafted for that purpose, I'd balk at that.
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And no, truth is not a 'fact.' Which is why they are two different words.
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stillersenat


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chieferific wrote:
stillersenat wrote:
My take: In the end the only things I think about are 1.) Will Butler stay around yet again? I always worry that Butler would leave and then Lebeau leaves a year later leaving us with nobody. 2.)Will Lebeau continue to adapt. This year brought about a big change in philosophy-a lot more man a bump and run coverage. The reasoning behind the decision can only be guessed at, but it played to the strengths of our CBs who were trained in man type coverage rather than soft zone. The results were dramatic-the DBs as a whole played lights out without a steady pass rush. I would hope the trend would continue with the DL. It's time to let Hood and Heyward play more 1 gap play calls and let them play to their strengths.

Is it your belief they are drafting non "Lebeau" players intentionally with the idea of moving away from his style? I remember hearing that as far back as the Timmons pick. He's worked out well. Truth is, true 3-4 players are rare. Especially when you pick in the 20's and 30's every year. Sometimes you have to just draft the closest thing to what you want cause that's all that's left. If your simply stating that these players are more effective in different schemes, I'd agree. If your claiming they were drafted for that purpose, I'd balk at that.


Yes, I mean they have skill sets for more 1 gap play. The Steelers don't draft for what "might happen". The players they picked were intended to work within the system at that time. But things have slowly changed in some areas. My hope, obviously, is that it will continue.
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at23steelers


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My bigger hope is that John Mitchell moves on then Lebeau does, or do people think Lebeau has great say in that old defensive front 3 scheme? Doesn't seem like it's playing to our strengths.
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stillersenat wrote:
My take: In the end the only things I think about are 1.) Will Butler stay around yet again? I always worry that Butler would leave and then Lebeau leaves a year later leaving us with nobody. 2.)Will Lebeau continue to adapt. This year brought about a big change in philosophy-a lot more man a bump and run coverage. The reasoning behind the decision can only be guessed at, but it played to the strengths of our CBs who were trained in man type coverage rather than soft zone. The results were dramatic-the DBs as a whole played lights out without a steady pass rush. I would hope the trend would continue with the DL. It's time to let Hood and Heyward play more 1 gap play calls and let them play to their strengths.


HERE HERE!!!


at23, Mitchell is absolutely going along with what LeBeau wants. That is LeBeau's defense

Chieferific wrote:
Is it your belief they are drafting non "Lebeau" players intentionally with the idea of moving away from his style?


I think Tomlin's attitude of "talent transcends scheme" is faulty. 2007, LeBeau had turned 70. I guarantee you that Tomlin didn't expect LeBeau to coach HALF A FRICKIN' DECADE past his 70th birthday.

Timmons was initially drafted to play OLB, with the idea that he could play inside. He obviously can't play outside. He is a Lavonte David-style WLB. Tomlin was enamored with his run and hit ability as well as his youthfulness.

Ziggy is nowhere near a 5-tech. Complete mismatch for a 34, he's a Kevin Williams/Warren Sapp-style 3-tech. Tomlin got enamored with his incredible combine and forgot that explosiveness and quickness for a LeBeau LDE are both irrelevant.

Heyward is a great 5-tech but a horrible pick. I wonder if we'll redshirt our first rounder for a 3rd consecutive season while we continue to force Ziggy to play out of position?
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stillersenat


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:

Heyward is a great 5-tech but a horrible pick.


How so?
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its funny how Timmons, CB ability to play man, Hood and some other things are negatives on a defense that played with its back against the wall all season. They started out slow, but every season brings something new. What amazing is that through all the injuries to key players they still fielded the #1 defense. If not for turnovers and more steady offense they could of been even better which is hard to believe.

I like E. Hood and think he's just find. I do believe he lined up on the wrong side of the defense, but that's just how things worked out.

Timmons was touted as a OLB only in the media as Butler and Tomlin both stated that he would start out as a ILB. But Steelers.com doesn't go back that far and any newspaper articles only state the same. But I know that was one of the first questions asked to Butler. He said something to the effects like Timmons primary position with be inside because of his size, but he has the ability to play outside. Every things speculatory as I can't dig up anything back up my claims.

I don't care who takes the field for the Steelers as long as the defense plays good that's all the matters. Turnovers are more luck then skill and teams QBs were getting the balls out there hands extremely fast this season. Which is probably why the Steelers started going more man to negate some of the dink and donk stuff that had gone on in the past. I think it started last season against the Pats.
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at23steelers


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stillersenat wrote:
kethnaab wrote:

Heyward is a great 5-tech but a horrible pick.


How so?


I dont think Kethy is a fan of square pegs into round holes. Basically, don't want it to seem like Im speaking for him, but we are utilizing him wrong, and not playing to his strengths.
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stillersenat


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

at23steelers wrote:
stillersenat wrote:
kethnaab wrote:

Heyward is a great 5-tech but a horrible pick.


How so?


I dont think Kethy is a fan of square pegs into round holes. Basically, don't want it to seem like Im speaking for him, but we are utilizing him wrong, and not playing to his strengths.


That's what I figured he meant. I don't know of anyone who doesn't like Cam as a player.
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kethnaab


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stillersenat wrote:
kethnaab wrote:

Heyward is a great 5-tech but a horrible pick.


How so?


he's been redshirted 2 seasons. We had just spent a 1st rounder on a DE, while we still had Keisel who was still obviously fresh. He gets very little playing time as a result, and for what we ask of our 5-techs, it doesn't require a 1st round draft pick to perform.

that said, I think Cam is going to be a helluva player for us, assuming he'll get to see the field. Interestingly enough, Heyward is an IDEAL 5-tech.

Taller, longer arms, good strength, great hand fighting. He is someone who could become "the next Aaron Smith", if he's allowed to do so...someday...maybe...

SteelProven wrote:
Timmons was touted as a OLB only in the media as Butler and Tomlin both stated that he would start out as a ILB.


at the time, Farrior was about 2 years removed from a DPOY run, and was still playing at an extremely high level, age 31. Larry Foote was in his mid-late 20s, and had jsut come off a season with 4 sacks and nearly 100 tackles.

contrast that with us losing Porter and Haggans was on his way out the door. That said, it's water under the bridge now

SteelProven wrote:
Turnovers are more luck then skill


couldn't possibly disagree more.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
Turnovers are more luck then skill


couldn't possibly disagree more.


He isnt that far off.

Your defense as a whole needs to have the skill to force teams into making mistakes, but there is a measure of luck that goes into it, especially with interceptions. Forced fumbles are definitely something some players are better at. Harrison used to swat for balls all the time and got tons of fumbles out of it. That was definitely more skill than luck.


Interceptions....it just depends. Sometimes tipped passes lead to INTs. I mean...is that a matter of luck, or do you give credit for the defense for knocking it into the air? Id call that more skill...with some luck that it went to a defender instead of falling to the ground or being cauight by another offensive player. Sometimes a player just makes a bad throw. Whether you want to call it luck or just a plain poor throw, its still not always based on skill of the defense. Some fumbles arent either. Sometimes backs carry it so poorly that merely getting hit hard knocks it out. I guess there is some skill in that, but more luck, or again, just more on the opposing player.

With our lack of a pass rush and un-opportunistic players, thats why we arent creating turnovers the way we used to. So that alone proves that there is more skill that goes into it. That was the problem...many of the turnovers this year we didnt actually create....it was more bad plays by the other team.

There is an argument for both, but skill definitely plays a bigger part in CREATING turnovers. All teams get lucky at some point, but if you rely on luck for most of your turnovers, thats not good.
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
Turnovers are more luck then skill


couldn't possibly disagree more.


I'm not going to agree with you statement, but I've heard LeBeau say something along those lines a hundred times. Now LeBeaus not the be all tell all, but there are some skilled involved I will say, but more luck and timing.
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