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lumberjackchris


Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Posts: 4513
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pastor D, we need the title of this thread changed to March to 12K

For the year Dre needs only 7 rec for 100 on the year
and 140 yards for 1,500

For his career he needs 1 more rec for 800 rec and is currently at 11,016 yards


BEAST.
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DreDay80


Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 2003
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After the first half of the season I thought Andre would be lucky to crack 1000 yards and now he's on the verge of his 3rd 1500 yard season. If only his TD numbers weren't so low..... Sad
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amazingandre


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 13948
Location: Elkhorn, WI
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lumberjackchris wrote:
Pastor D, we need the title of this thread changed to March to 12K

For the year Dre needs only 7 rec for 100 on the year
and 140 yards for 1,500

For his career he needs 1 more rec for 800 rec and is currently at 11,016 yards


BEAST.


I could have sworn last game they said he hit 800 already, he was the 3rd fastest to hit 800 catches I thought....behind rice and holt
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lumberjackchris


Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Posts: 4513
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
lumberjackchris wrote:
Pastor D, we need the title of this thread changed to March to 12K

For the year Dre needs only 7 rec for 100 on the year
and 140 yards for 1,500

For his career he needs 1 more rec for 800 rec and is currently at 11,016 yards


BEAST.


I could have sworn last game they said he hit 800 already, he was the 3rd fastest to hit 800 catches I thought....behind rice and holt


3Rd fastest to 11K I believe.
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Pastor Dillon


Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 8856
Location: Mountain Home, Arkansas
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The biggest knock on Andre, which might cost him first ballot HOF, is the TD issue. He has never had over 9 in a season, in fact in 2008 he had one of the best seasons ever for a WR and he only grabbed 8 TDs

He currently sits with just 56 or 5.6 per season which is not a HOF worthy number. Taking everything into account, he will still get there but its gonna be a drag on him unless he produces about 40 TDs over the next 4-5 seasons which is highly doubtful

if you look at some of the guys around the NFL this is what they have done:

Reggie Wayne - 77
Calvin Johnson (4 years younger) - 54
Roddy White - 50
Steve Smith - 62
Marques Colston - 56
Anquan Boldin - 58
Larry Fitzgerald - 77


To me if you talk about who the best WR of Johnson's generation is, looking over a period of about 7 years (3 before, 3 after) Johnson is top 5 but maybe not the best at least number wise

here is a list of guys in that 7 year stretch:

Andre Johnson
Anquan Boldin
Reggie Wayne
Steve Smith
Santana Moss
Laveranues Coles
Wes Welker
Larry Fitzgerald
Roy Williams
Roddy White
Vince Jackson
Braylon Edwards
Brandon Marshal
Marques Colston
Miles Austin
Santonio Holmes


looking over that list the 5 guys that stand above the rest are:

1. Larry Fitzgerald
2. Reggie Wayne
3. Andre Johnson
4. Anquan Boldin
5. Steve Smith

Fitzgerald and Wayne have been healthier than Johnson, they have seen more success than Johnson and have better stats than Johnson

I suspect that if Arizona doesnt go several years without a QB that Fitzgerald will end up with the title of best WR of this generation, which means Andre, unless he gets a few super bowl rings, will need 14,000 - 15,000 yards and over 1,000 catches
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Pastor Dillon


Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 8856
Location: Mountain Home, Arkansas
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is another thing that will hender Johnson as of today:

Chris Carter has had a hard time getting in the HOF

1,101 receptions
13,899 yards
130 TDs
8x Pro Bowl selections
1990s all decade team
2 time first team all pro

when he retired he was statistically speaking the 2nd best WR to ever play the game, but he never won or played in a super bowl.

Andre should pass his yardage, maybe his receptions but he wont touch his TDs
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Marco79


Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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Location: Bloomington, IN
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't think TDs will be a big issue.

Also didn't the media hate Carter?

Voters will go crazy about Andre because he is a quiet guy and that is sometimes hard to find in a WR.

There is no doubt in my mind that Andre will be in the Hall. Also he avergaes more yards per game than any HOF WR.
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Apollo Stallion


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 5521
Location: Battle Red State
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marco79 wrote:
I really don't think TDs will be a big issue.

Also didn't the media hate Carter?

Voters will go crazy about Andre because he is a quiet guy and that is sometimes hard to find in a WR.

There is no doubt in my mind that Andre will be in the Hall. Also he avergaes more yards per game than any HOF WR.


Receptions & Yardage totals will be downgraded in this era where 80 catches / 1,200 yards doesn't even put you in the top 10 anymore and his 2 "lost seasons" won't help in that regard. The TD total issue will be a bit of a challenge, but I think team success will overcome it. The missing part of AJ's resume is that deep playoff run where he is a vital part of the team success. Aside from Roddy White and Calvin, all of the other guys mentioned have had that. I also think there is a huge amount to the "smell test" that renders guys like Jimmy Smith or Henry Ellard (or Muhsin Muhammed and Keenan McCardell) not quite as relevant as their stats may indicate. Bruce and Holt's votes will be interesting to watch as they both have everything one should need, but could be downgraded for the Martz system.

I do think AJ already passes most peoples "smell test" as a hall of famer, but he can greatly help his cause by rising up in the playoffs and not getting shut down by good corners. There is a reason John Stallworth and Lynn Swann are in there while Carter, Irving Fryar, and Andre Reed aren't which fairly or not is about the importance of Super Bowl rings in this sport. Largent even played in 7 playoff games (4 separate years) and a Super Bowl and that was with some really bad Seahawks teams over the years but he also was #1 in Rec, Yards, and Tds when he retired and it's doubtful that AJ leads any of those when he retires. The yards per game stat looks great good now, but that will slide if and when the Texans finally elevate a true #2. AJ will get "good guy" points but only if they aren't counter balanced by a perception that he didn't step up and lead in the playoffs. If the Texans don't convert the talent on this team into a Super Bowl ring in the next 2-3 years, I think it will tarnish his legacy that has always explained away the lack of team success by blaming it on the Qb, running game, or the defense which simply doesn't hold up anymore.
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Grasspike


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marco79 wrote:
I really don't think TDs will be a big issue.

Also didn't the media hate Carter?

Voters will go crazy about Andre because he is a quiet guy and that is sometimes hard to find in a WR.

There is no doubt in my mind that Andre will be in the Hall. Also he avergaes more yards per game than any HOF WR.


His yardage per game will decrease as he ages, especially if he sticks around and tries to add to his career numbers.

He'll get in, but he won't be first ballot. More than anything, he needs a good playoff run to get publicity out, because other than fantasy fans, he's not a huge name. His quiet nature and being on the Texans have kept him from really becoming a household name.

Also, more than anything, the HOF is built on reputation. Stats help, but having a large number of people think that he was the best or second best receiver in the game for a long time is going to be a lot more beneficial.
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Apollo Stallion


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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Location: Battle Red State
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grasspike wrote:
Marco79 wrote:
I really don't think TDs will be a big issue.

Also didn't the media hate Carter?

Voters will go crazy about Andre because he is a quiet guy and that is sometimes hard to find in a WR.

There is no doubt in my mind that Andre will be in the Hall. Also he avergaes more yards per game than any HOF WR.


His yardage per game will decrease as he ages, especially if he sticks around and tries to add to his career numbers.

He'll get in, but he won't be first ballot. More than anything, he needs a good playoff run to get publicity out, because other than fantasy fans, he's not a huge name. His quiet nature and being on the Texans have kept him from really becoming a household name.

Also, more than anything, the HOF is built on reputation. Stats help, but having a large number of people think that he was the best or second best receiver in the game for a long time is going to be a lot more beneficial.


Just as an example of how much the Texans continue to be minimized on a national front, the ESPN Score Center App didn't even think the Texans/Colts game with a division crown on the line was important enough to feature on it's "LEAD" score page while several meaningless December NBA games were along with Redskins/Browns and of course Cowboys/Steelers (two teams that may not make the playoffs). I certainly love RG3, but it's amazing how him being out for a game still beat out the Texans gaining essentially a 2 game lead on the conference and wrapping up their division. We have largely brought this on ourselves by flopping against the Pack and Pats on national platforms, but it's still pretty absurd. At least we're not alone, as the poor Falcons probably knocked the "record doesn't matter in the playoffs" Giants out of the playoffs with a 34-0 dismantling and nobody seemed to care as much as Big Ben complaining about not being able to throw to Heath Miller enough. At least we don't have to hear about the Jets or Eagles anymore (until the offseason when Michael Vick goes to New York and the Eagles slap some big name college coach there like Chip Kelly or Saban and are everyone's favorites again along with wherever the ringless Reid ends up).
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lumberjackchris


Joined: 14 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the last 8 games, WR Andre Johnson has 68 catches for 1,002 yds, the best 8-game stretch in his career.

Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Pastor Dillon


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing to consider when looking at his HOF credentials, After this season he will for sure be a 6x Pro Bowl WR and quite possibly his 5th All Pro Selection with this one should be a first team

By comparrison Chris Carter had 2 first team all pros and 1 2nd team so Andre already has him beat

Carter also had 8 pro bowls a number that Johnson will surely reach

Also Carter never lead the league in yards and Andre did it back to back
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pastor Dillon wrote:
Another thing to consider when looking at his HOF credentials, After this season he will for sure be a 6x Pro Bowl WR and quite possibly his 5th All Pro Selection with this one should be a first team

By comparrison Chris Carter had 2 first team all pros and 1 2nd team so Andre already has him beat

Carter also had 8 pro bowls a number that Johnson will surely reach

Also Carter never lead the league in yards and Andre did it back to back


Carter will eventually get in as he retired #2 in receptions and #2 in TDs behind the best player ever to play the position. Part of me wonders if voters are waiting to vote him in alongside Randy Moss who greatly extended his career. Rice deserved to go in before Carter and Tim Brown should probably be next. Personally, I'm a bit iffy on Andre Reed who had a long run of being really good but only 2 exceptional seasons, was never an all-pro, and probably got too much credit for a team built around defense, Jim Kelly (who got in too soon in my book) and Thurman Thomas and is inferior to ho hum Henry Ellard statistically except for the distinction of losing 4 straight Super Bowls.

Parcells, Bettis, and Willie Roaf will probably go in this year with Tim Brown and Carter having their best shots yet with a class lacking the flash of Deion, Shannon Sharpe and Faulk last year. I think it would be kind of fun to see Reggie Wayne and Andre go in together possibly with Marvin Harrison as well (who will be punished for the gun incident) but I also hope Andre plays long enough to still be playing when they get elected.
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kenney


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been skeptical of Andre's HOF viability given his terrible career TD numbers and the fact that voters have a back-log of deserving WRs to consider, but this season gave me renewed confidence that AJ will eventually find his way to Canton, particularly if he's got 3 or 4 good years left in him.

It's pretty incredible to think that this team might have three Hall of Famers on it - Watt, Brown, and Johnson. I hope we can get them all a ring or five.
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Grasspike


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
I have been skeptical of Andre's HOF viability given his terrible career TD numbers and the fact that voters have a back-log of deserving WRs to consider, but this season gave me renewed confidence that AJ will eventually find his way to Canton, particularly if he's got 3 or 4 good years left in him.

It's pretty incredible to think that this team might have three Hall of Famers on it - Watt, Brown, and Johnson. I hope we can get them all a ring or five.


I'd say Foster has an outside shot, if he can bounce back from this year.
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