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The future of the Ravens
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santiagomn8


Joined: 27 Dec 2010
Posts: 169
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:05 pm    Post subject: The future of the Ravens Reply with quote

Ok after watching this game and this season as a whole i think its time to basically clean house to an extent. We are about to go through a huge transition with Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, and a few other key verterans retiring/ leaving. What i love about the ravens is that we are almost always competitive no matter what and that says a lot about the Ravens as a whole. I think we should pretty much change the whole coaching staff but more importantly Harbaugh. I love the guy and i hate to say it but hes just not a a true head coach he is just benefiting from a team stacked with talent. which leads me to Flacco he also benefits from being on the team. Im not saying hes a bad quarterback but he will never lead us to a super bowl. I know there might not be something better out there but when a rookie might come out that looks amazing i think we should do whatever we can to get them. We have alot of good young talent and if we can add a few more pieces and find a true franchise quarterback we can become something special can anyone say dynasty =]. like i said earlier this is going to take a couple years but we should remain competitive thru this transition. The alternative is just keeping trying to add pieces and never win the superbowl for another decade. What do you guys think?
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sp6488


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 9098
Location: MD
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:25 pm    Post subject: Re: The future of the Ravens Reply with quote

santiagomn8 wrote:
Ok after watching this game and this season as a whole i think its time to basically clean house to an extent. We are about to go through a huge transition with Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, and a few other key verterans retiring/ leaving. What i love about the ravens is that we are almost always competitive no matter what and that says a lot about the Ravens as a whole. I think we should pretty much change the whole coaching staff but more importantly Harbaugh. I love the guy and i hate to say it but hes just not a a true head coach he is just benefiting from a team stacked with talent. which leads me to Flacco he also benefits from being on the team. Im not saying hes a bad quarterback but he will never lead us to a super bowl. I know there might not be something better out there but when a rookie might come out that looks amazing i think we should do whatever we can to get them. We have alot of good young talent and if we can add a few more pieces and find a true franchise quarterback we can become something special can anyone say dynasty =]. like i said earlier this is going to take a couple years but we should remain competitive thru this transition. The alternative is just keeping trying to add pieces and never win the superbowl for another decade. What do you guys think?


I think this would be completely misguided. More likely to end up worse off for a decade than "dynasty." I don't understand this idea that we can NEVER make a sb with flacco and harbs.
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santiagomn8


Joined: 27 Dec 2010
Posts: 169
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:35 pm    Post subject: Re: The future of the Ravens Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:
santiagomn8 wrote:
Ok after watching this game and this season as a whole i think its time to basically clean house to an extent. We are about to go through a huge transition with Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, and a few other key verterans retiring/ leaving. What i love about the ravens is that we are almost always competitive no matter what and that says a lot about the Ravens as a whole. I think we should pretty much change the whole coaching staff but more importantly Harbaugh. I love the guy and i hate to say it but hes just not a a true head coach he is just benefiting from a team stacked with talent. which leads me to Flacco he also benefits from being on the team. Im not saying hes a bad quarterback but he will never lead us to a super bowl. I know there might not be something better out there but when a rookie might come out that looks amazing i think we should do whatever we can to get them. We have alot of good young talent and if we can add a few more pieces and find a true franchise quarterback we can become something special can anyone say dynasty =]. like i said earlier this is going to take a couple years but we should remain competitive thru this transition. The alternative is just keeping trying to add pieces and never win the superbowl for another decade. What do you guys think?


I think this would be completely misguided. More likely to end up worse off for a decade than "dynasty." I don't understand this idea that we can NEVER make a sb with flacco and harbs.



like i said it would be a transitional phase we wouldnt become superbowl bound right away but with a few years we could be like the patriots for example who seems to be in the superbowl every other year. Flacco and Harbaugh have had a team that has had arguably the most talent in the nfl especially a few years ago when our defense was vicious. i would bet that a good quarterback like Rivers, Manning, Rodgers, Brady , the other Manning Bress could have done crazy things with this team. If we were to win a super bowl i highly doubt it would be because of Flacco he would just be along for the ride. I will say I HOPE IM WRONG AND HE PROVES ME WRONG but its just not looking like that and i dont want the team to spend millions and who knos how many years hoping that flacco is going to do something that he just cant.
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RavensfanRD


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
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Location: Baltimore, MD (Land of the Greatness)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flacco is fine. Coaching staff needs to go.
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gooselovechild


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 2598
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RavensfanRD wrote:
Flacco is fine. Coaching staff needs to go.


We're the only team that's won a playoff game in each of the past 4 seasons, and been to 2 AFCCGs in that time....never gonna happen.
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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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Location: Spokane, WA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gooselovechild wrote:
RavensfanRD wrote:
Flacco is fine. Coaching staff needs to go.


We're the only team that's won a playoff game in each of the past 4 seasons, and been to 2 AFCCGs in that time....never gonna happen.


And when you look at the talent that's been on this team, are you honestly surprised?

If that's the only thing keeping this coaching staff employed, then that's pretty sad...Rex Ryan and the Jets went to 2 AFC Championships and look where they are. Things can head downhill in a hurry if your coaching staff is a bunch of idiots.
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sp6488


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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Location: MD
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gooselovechild wrote:
RavensfanRD wrote:
Flacco is fine. Coaching staff needs to go.


We're the only team that's won a playoff game in each of the past 4 seasons, and been to 2 AFCCGs in that time....never gonna happen.


I mean this x25. People are spoiled and too close to this in some ways. Simple question, if the texans take an early exit from the playoffs, does kubiak deserve to be fired? Same question for Jim harbaugh. If we see this team fall apart next year then we can talk. Not every team can win the sb in any year. I don't put much stock in this idea that we can get to the playoffs, win games but never win it all. How long did it take cowher with the steelers?
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GaTechRavens


Joined: 25 Nov 2006
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Location: Madison, WI
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
And when you look at the talent that's been on this team, are you honestly surprised?


I've analyzed history quite a bit, trying to figure out what "types" of teams have consistent success. Knowing what I know, I am going to say yes.

It is very rare for a team to have consistent success without a strong quarterback OR coach. And since we don't have the former, I have to believe we possess the latter.

Quote:
If that's the only thing keeping this coaching staff employed, then that's pretty sad...Rex Ryan and the Jets went to 2 AFC Championships and look where they are. Things can head downhill in a hurry if your coaching staff is a bunch of idiots.


And they haven't gone downhill. After five years. That's the whole point. I'm still waiting that actual bad season.

The fact that Harbaugh was a special teams coach gave people the perfect opportunity to never give him credit for anything. The impact of the head coach is based so much in subtleties. How he prepares a team for games, how they prepare and focus themselves emotionally, how united they are in achieving their goals. None of this is easily noticeable. None of it can be analyzed on a replay. But it absolutely shows in a team's results. Clock management and challenges are miniscule in comparison (not to mention EVERY fan base thinks their coach is terrible at it). On the largest scale - as an organization - the Ravens are run like a well oiled machine. That has a lot to do with the owner, of course. The GM, too. I have a hard time believing the head coach isn't a necessary element to that as well. It's not about what we see, it's about what we don't see - that's why we've been able to have so much success with a coach whose qualifications aren't as visible on the most superficial level.
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 7523
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd really like to know where this supposed franchise QB is going to come from. Teams don't trade those kinds of players and they only let them hit free agency if they have/will have a younger guy in place like the situations with Brees and Manning. Don't even think about mentioning the draft this year either with the likes of Barkley, Smith, Wilson, Glennon, etc. It's not happening. I'd be very surprised if Flacco and the Ravens didn't work out a long-term deal after this season and even if they didn't he would get hit with the exclusive franchise tag. Then they would just agree to a long-term deal few months later like we've seen with basically every big-name free agent that Baltimore has tagged recently.

Harbaugh won't be going anywhere as long as the team is still winning. Whatever you may think about him that's about the only measure well-run teams seem to rate their coach on.

As for going through a huge transition without Lewis and Reed... how big of a deal will it be when neither guy has played well the last season or so? Obviously the "aura" will be different without them but honestly I don't think we see much of a, if any, drop-off in terms of on-field production. Let's be real here Lewis is 37 and it shows. Reed isn't too far behind him and he's not making the big plays his style of defense relies on anymore. I think he sticks around for another couple of seasons but I doubt the Ravens will be set back too far when he decides to retire.
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gooselovechild


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 2598
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
gooselovechild wrote:
RavensfanRD wrote:
Flacco is fine. Coaching staff needs to go.


We're the only team that's won a playoff game in each of the past 4 seasons, and been to 2 AFCCGs in that time....never gonna happen.


And when you look at the talent that's been on this team, are you honestly surprised?

If that's the only thing keeping this coaching staff employed, then that's pretty sad...Rex Ryan and the Jets went to 2 AFC Championships and look where they are. Things can head downhill in a hurry if your coaching staff is a bunch of idiots.


Knee jerk and emotional decision making kills franchises even faster.

It's not like this supreme collection of talent was winning consistently prior to Harbaugh being hired.

The fact that this year's team has 9 wins so far with the amount of long term injuries sustained--particularly by the defense--is actually proof that Harbaugh is a good coach, especially since most of those calling for his removal also feel that Flacco should be replaced too.
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drd23


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
I'd really like to know where this supposed franchise QB is going to come from

The draft (but probably not this year as you mention). In my mind, it certainly isn't coming from Flacco.

Ideally we'd re-sign Flacco for a reasonable 3-4 year deal (i.e. <10m/yr) and then we'd draft a QB early in either 2013 or 2014. If Flacco won't accept that sort of deal, I'd be happy enough with Alex Smith at $8-10m/yr for the same length of time in all honesty.

We can't afford to pay Flacco the $15m/yr that he seems to want/people are projecting if he only gives us the production that is worth half of that
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Mancunian Raven


Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 2271
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flacco will be in Baltimore next year, either on a franchise tag or on a contract that should be sub-$15million a year. Unless he plays his butt off in the last two games and the playoffs, and wins the Super Bowl, he doesnít really have the body of work this season to ask for Romo/Roethlisburger money. Too inconsistent. But saying he canít lead us to a Super Bowl is ridiculous, because he did. Lee Evans just dropped the ball.

The job of the coaching staff should be to ensure that he has everything in place to succeed. Running backs, receivers, O-line. A good OC and Caldwell as his QB coach working with him through the off-season and training camp. Draw up an offense that works with that personnel and work out how to get a lot of different guys involved.

If, with all that, Flacco still canít produce on a consistent basis, then at least weíll know for sure that heís not going to be a top level QB. And the Ravens can go for a guy in next yearís draft, who they can try to fit into a team thatís already strong.

Harbaugh should absolutely be the HC for all of this, because heís done a good job over the last five years of rebuilding and re-energizing a franchise that was starting to flag. He addressed the Special Teams problems very efficiently in this last off-season, and now heís made the move to address the shortcomings of the Offense as well, by firing Cam Cameron. You canít blame the Defense on him, because thereís no way you can maintain any sort of consistency if youíre losing your DC whenever he does well and then youíre piling up injury after injury on that side of the ball.

I think the team definitely needs to draft well this year, because things are getting a little precarious in terms of the salary cap and players getting older. They need to strengthen both lines and draft a successor to Ray Lewis, as well as looking at pass rushers and corner backs. They need to figure out what to do about Ed Reed, particularly, because heís playing injured all the time, heís getting paid a lot and will be wanting a lot more, and heís coming to the end of his career. Draft a safety, sign a free agent or try to move a CB or SS across.
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, it makes me laugh when I see anyone suggesting that Alex Smith is any sort of viable option (no offense, drd23).

Do people not remember how awful the guy was for 6ish years?

Yes, for 1.5 years he's been able to be efficient for the 49ers -- but that's just it, he's only been efficient. He hasn't done anything noteworthy other than avoid deep passes and take care of the ball.

And the argument that Flacco is only riding the team's overall talent, and then somehow ignoring the fact that Smith would need to hitch his wagon even MORE than Flacco ever has -- it just doesn't make sense.

Alex Smith would literally kill this franchise, IMO. He'd come in for likely about $8m/year, and would be a better Matt Cassel -- a guy who isn't going to go deep, isn't going to win you anything, and will absolutely need an elite defense and run game in order to be even seen as above average. The problem? We don't have those right now -- if we did, Flacco would still take us further than Alex Smith ever could.
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drd23


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd rather efficiency than the crap we're getting this year, and especially so if we're going to be paying $12-15m/yr for the privilege

*shrugs*
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santiagomn8


Joined: 27 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like i said before im not saying get rid of Flacco rite now and just get the next guy and hope for the best if we sign flacco to something very resonable and for 3 to 4 years thats fine but we should always have our eye towards the draft for the next great prospect or someone ozzie might fall in love with cause i think flacco is a part time solution not the long term solution.


Not saying i would have done this but it really makes you think. What you have been willing to get peyton manning last year when he was a free agent and we could hae trade flacco for at least a first round pick if not more cause he has some good value especially to a qb hungry team imagine the possibiites of going down that road. again just a thought lol
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