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shaX 07
Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 687
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 Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Carolina_Champ wrote: | | fretgod99 wrote: | Question to which I honestly don't know the answer:
In the NFL, how much authority does the player have to decide whether to press, stay tight, or back off before the snap? Is that a coaching/play decision, or does the player always (or at least frequently) have the option?
I mean, I'm sure that can very, depending on player and team, but if Norman has the option in most situations and he keeps backing off, that's clearly an issue with him and confidence, etc. If it's not up to him and he's hand-tied by the plays being called, then I really can't downgrade the guy for playing what's called.
So, honestly, does anybody know the answer beyond speculation? I'd really like to know. |
I've been trying to figure out if this a problem with Norman or our scheme for a while. The thing is Thomas plays off the receiver and up close. That could be by design or Thomas's preference, idk. To me it seems that Norman, Thomas and Gamble are all corners that would excel in tight man coverage. |
I cannot imagine coaches saying "Hey CBs, you must play Off, all the time, on every play, even if you give up a completion on every throw, and even if you're good at playing press".
In what world would that make sense? I would imagine there is some discretion for the CB to play to level of their skillset along with the talent of the receiver they're covering.
So i'f I'm Josh Norman, I might play Roddy White and Julio a little farther off than say, a Wes Welker who catches a lot over the middle, etc..
But it's still situational. If it's 3rd and 3, I wouldn't be playing super soft because clearly they're not going deep on this play, whereas if it's 3rd and 20, than you want to play a little softer.
I could be wrong but really, why would a Coach force players to play out of position all the time and always get beat? That would make no sense.
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boondock
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 17643
Location: Waynesville, NC
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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There's probably a lot of things that go into effect with how a certain receiver is played or how far off the LOS the CB is.
For instance, if the WR is faster or stronger than the CB, the CB will play off the WR to avoid getting beat off the line. If the CB is faster and stronger, they may play up on the line.
Also, depending on what the LBs and DL is doing can depend on this as well. I could imagine if its a blitz that they play closer to prevent the QB from just dumping the ball off to avoid the blitz.
I don't think there's a set guideline book, it's easily play to play, receiver to receiver, possession to possession on how it goes down.
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rjkilla
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 4193
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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well in the bears game you saw players. specifically coverage guys complaining about the play calls on that last drive. that to me says somewhat that these guys are going out there running what is called and don't have much input. it can't be like that all the time tho right? i mean that would just be bad coaching.....oh wait
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fretgod99
Joined: 05 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| rjkilla wrote: | | well in the bears game you saw players. specifically coverage guys complaining about the play calls on that last drive. that to me says somewhat that these guys are going out there running what is called and don't have much input. it can't be like that all the time tho right? i mean that would just be bad coaching.....oh wait |
That's really what I'm wondering about. Because, if I recall correctly, there was a lot of Cover 4 called late in the Bears game, meaning the CBs would be bailing and playing soft (like they were). Does Norman have the ability to bump and play tight in that situation, or is he stuck with the play call? I'm sure there's a lot more nuance than that, it just seems frustrating all around. I'm sure Norman could be playing more aggressively when given the opportunity, I just don't know if I'm willing to chalk it up to him playing soft at this point, as opposed to be forced by scheme/play call.
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| MrDrew wrote: | | Can somebody give me a good reason there's not a giant statue to fret somewhere? |
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iknowcool
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Posts: 11426
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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If the coverage call is zone, a defensive back typically does not get to decide how he plays the receiver (for the most part, anyway). If it is man, then a DB has more leeway. I don't know what the coverage was so I don't know if Norman was in the right or wrong.
Of course this is basically me using my HS knowledge. No idea how it works in the NFL. But that is the jist of it.
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Panthers11
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 22942
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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I would like to get Norma playing time now.
Don't like him getting taken out.
Godfrey being out is fine. I'd like 2 new safeties next year.
DT, 2 safeties, new coach. Playoffs?
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Panthers 24/7
Joined: 09 Jan 2008
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Location: NY
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Panthers11 wrote: | I would like to get Norma playing time now.
Don't like him getting taken out.
Godfrey being out is fine. I'd like 2 new safeties next year.
DT, 2 safeties, new coach. Playoffs? |
^^I couldnt have said it better (although, Godfrey isnt toooo bad, but he certainly can be upgraded)
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Fatback_Bryant
Joined: 11 Dec 2012
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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New guy here.....
I remember from the Panther Talk podcast after the game, Rivera said that the decision to go with Thomas over Norman was just simple matchups. He said that the defensive plan was to be physical and jam Atlanta's receivers at the line, and Thomas was a bulkier and more physical corner. I'm not as familiar with the two players as some people, so I don't know how much of that is true, and how much is just being politically correct. |
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boondock
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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Location: Waynesville, NC
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Fatback_Bryant wrote: | New guy here.....
I remember from the Panther Talk podcast after the game, Rivera said that the decision to go with Thomas over Norman was just simple matchups. He said that the defensive plan was to be physical and jam Atlanta's receivers at the line, and Thomas was a bulkier and more physical corner. I'm not as familiar with the two players as some people, so I don't know how much of that is true, and how much is just being politically correct. |
That does make a lot of sense, but I still don't understand why they sat him completely. I mean, Dockery got more playing time than him.
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Mad Man
Joined: 07 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:33 am Post subject: |
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Could be that the coaches have lost a little faith.
Could be they want to keep him hungry for next year.
Could be they want to see other guys play and evaluate for next year.
Norman was a pleasant surprise as a 5th rounder from Coastal, but he has been targeted all year. Nice job for a rookie but can he now get better? |
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BringinDaPain
Joined: 26 Dec 2011
Posts: 3116
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Mad Man wrote: | Could be that the coaches have lost a little faith.
Could be they want to keep him hungry for next year.
Could be they want to see other guys play and evaluate for next year.
Norman was a pleasant surprise as a 5th rounder from Coastal, but he has been targeted all year. Nice job for a rookie but can he now get better? |
This would be my guess. ^^^
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Zithers
Joined: 15 Aug 2010
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Toughguy77
Joined: 04 Sep 2009
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Location: South Cackalack
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:52 am Post subject: |
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So I guess it's easy to say Hogan is a lost cause?
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Zithers
Joined: 15 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:52 am Post subject: |
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| Toughguy77 wrote: | | So I guess it's easy to say Hogan is a lost cause? |
he was cut a long time ago dude
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Toughguy77
Joined: 04 Sep 2009
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Location: South Cackalack
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| Zithers wrote: | | Toughguy77 wrote: | | So I guess it's easy to say Hogan is a lost cause? |
he was cut a long time ago dude |
I am saying as an NFL player as a whole...I obviously knew the guy hasn't been in Charlotte in months
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