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dhunt2402
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 16668
Location: The District
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 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| TomRalph wrote: | | Richter wrote: | | ChazStandard wrote: | | TomRalph wrote: | | Do people really believe that Talib was bought in with the intention of 'wait and see' to retain him or not? |
I tend to agree...you don't trade for a guy for half a season. Plan A was always going to be to resign him unless:
1) He really really sucked
2) He had a majorly bad attitude/influence
3) Both |
You do if you're trying to win a Super Bowl and there's a decent chance that Derrick Martin or Marquice Cole could be logging significant snaps at corner. If they felt like Talib was the piece to put them over the top, I'm sure they'd spend a mid-round pick to win a championship. |
It'd be a very short-sighted move and very out of character for BB. I'm sure the move was made with the intention to resign him. If he does put us over the top and we do with a Championship, surely his presence on the field was a contributing factor and he would have proved that he's worth resigning.
I just cannot envision a scenario where Talib plays well and we don't resign him. Unless he's swayed by a totally ridiculous FA offer, but again, I can't just see us letting him walk. I've seen enough so far to think Talib is a long term option and should be signed to a 2nd or 3rd Tier CB contract. |
Money talks. If someone offers him more than what BB values him at, he could absolutely leave. You don't know Belichick very well if you think he'll overpay to resign every good player that hits free agency
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TomRalph
Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 5816
Location: Leeds, England
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| dhunt2402 wrote: | | TomRalph wrote: | | Richter wrote: | | ChazStandard wrote: | | TomRalph wrote: | | Do people really believe that Talib was bought in with the intention of 'wait and see' to retain him or not? |
I tend to agree...you don't trade for a guy for half a season. Plan A was always going to be to resign him unless:
1) He really really sucked
2) He had a majorly bad attitude/influence
3) Both |
You do if you're trying to win a Super Bowl and there's a decent chance that Derrick Martin or Marquice Cole could be logging significant snaps at corner. If they felt like Talib was the piece to put them over the top, I'm sure they'd spend a mid-round pick to win a championship. |
It'd be a very short-sighted move and very out of character for BB. I'm sure the move was made with the intention to resign him. If he does put us over the top and we do with a Championship, surely his presence on the field was a contributing factor and he would have proved that he's worth resigning.
I just cannot envision a scenario where Talib plays well and we don't resign him. Unless he's swayed by a totally ridiculous FA offer, but again, I can't just see us letting him walk. I've seen enough so far to think Talib is a long term option and should be signed to a 2nd or 3rd Tier CB contract. |
Money talks. If someone offers him more than what BB values him at, he could absolutely leave. You don't know Belichick very well if you think he'll overpay to resign every good player that hits free agency |
Well, not overpay every good player, but we need to keep some of the core players, Welker, Vollmer, Talib, I'd like all of them to stay, as unlikely as that is, but under the premise that Talib takes us to a Championship or close to it, I'd like to think we'd keep him around, someone who has come in and helped to stabilize the Pats secondary (take a minute to drink that in - our secondary is somewhat decent now...I know, right?) I don't think we should let that fall apart after 6 months, a hole that has been gaping for so long, I just don’t want to see it open so soon after sorting it out.
(I'm aware I may be a little premature in anointing our secondary as fixed/decent/stabilized but if previous weeks are anything to go by....)
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nextsuperstar
Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| TomRalph wrote: | | dhunt2402 wrote: | | TomRalph wrote: | | Richter wrote: | | ChazStandard wrote: | | TomRalph wrote: | | Do people really believe that Talib was bought in with the intention of 'wait and see' to retain him or not? |
I tend to agree...you don't trade for a guy for half a season. Plan A was always going to be to resign him unless:
1) He really really sucked
2) He had a majorly bad attitude/influence
3) Both |
You do if you're trying to win a Super Bowl and there's a decent chance that Derrick Martin or Marquice Cole could be logging significant snaps at corner. If they felt like Talib was the piece to put them over the top, I'm sure they'd spend a mid-round pick to win a championship. |
It'd be a very short-sighted move and very out of character for BB. I'm sure the move was made with the intention to resign him. If he does put us over the top and we do with a Championship, surely his presence on the field was a contributing factor and he would have proved that he's worth resigning.
I just cannot envision a scenario where Talib plays well and we don't resign him. Unless he's swayed by a totally ridiculous FA offer, but again, I can't just see us letting him walk. I've seen enough so far to think Talib is a long term option and should be signed to a 2nd or 3rd Tier CB contract. |
Money talks. If someone offers him more than what BB values him at, he could absolutely leave. You don't know Belichick very well if you think he'll overpay to resign every good player that hits free agency |
Well, not overpay every good player, but we need to keep some of the core players, Welker, Vollmer, Talib, I'd like all of them to stay, as unlikely as that is, but under the premise that Talib takes us to a Championship or close to it, I'd like to think we'd keep him around, someone who has come in and helped to stabilize the Pats secondary (take a minute to drink that in - our secondary is somewhat decent now...I know, right?) I don't think we should let that fall apart after 6 months, a hole that has been gaping for so long, I just don’t want to see it open so soon after sorting it out.
(I'm aware I may be a little premature in anointing our secondary as fixed/decent/stabilized but if previous weeks are anything to go by....) |
Do not forget the nutcase factor. Talib has been great, but he has some off the field issues. |
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finn54
Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 11818
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think BB had any expectations on Talib past this year, personally. I think whether he stays or not will entirely depend on what he commands in FA. IMO he needs a lot more image rehabilitation than half a seasons worth, so I could see a scenario where he re-signs in NE, most likely on an option contract (i.e. the pats holding an option for a big money deal after year 1).
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24isthelaw
Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 5177
Location: Where the Patriots are
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Calling Talib a 'core player' at this point (after 3 games? 4 games?) when he has been an average solid NFL cornerback either ridiculous, an overreaction to not having a dreadful secondary for once, or a combination of both.
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patsfan25
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 2849
Location: CenCal
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| ChazStandard wrote: | | Tzimisce wrote: | Opposing QBs v. Patriots
| Code: |
CMP ATT PCT YARDS Y/A TD INT RTG
-------------------------------------------------------
Weeks 1-7 169 260 65.0 1933 7.43 16 7 96.52
Weeks 8-14 137 223 61.4 1649 7.39 6 8 78.11 |
Dennard was first active in week 5; first start was week 7
McCourty was moved to safety in week 7
Talib was added to the active roster in week 11 |
To sum up: if you want a good pass defense, leave Patrick Chung handcuffed to the locker-room toilet. |
I don't know why people keep saying this. Chung is still our best tackling Safety. He's one of the better tackling Safeties in the NFL. Gregory looks like a lost kid out there and it pisses me off knowing Chung isn't much worst. He may be a liability in coverage, but he's still great in run support and brings that attitude to the defense.
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TomRalph
Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 5816
Location: Leeds, England
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| 24isthelaw wrote: | | Calling Talib a 'core player' at this point (after 3 games? 4 games?) when he has been an average solid NFL cornerback either ridiculous, an overreaction to not having a dreadful secondary for once, or a combination of both. |
Not a core player in terms of Brady, Wilfork, Chandler Jones, Jerod Mayo type bracket, but a player that has shown potential to be a good enough #1 CB that we can trust him to not be burned on every deep pass which was all too familiar at the beginning of the season.
The headcase thing can be wiped out with this change of scenery and veteran presences in the locker room and in the coaching staff (and the organization as whole) and Talib has shown before that he has the potential to be a Top 15 CB and if that’s the case we need to keep him (unless we were forced to overpay massively)
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| Jmacz008 (With the 32nd Pick of the 2014 NFL Draft) wrote: | | ...the New England Rutgers select, Rutgers Rutgers, Rutgers from Rutgers |
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patsfan25
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 2849
Location: CenCal
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| AlexHyun777 wrote: | | Tzimisce wrote: | | The onus is on Dennard to continue playing well. We've had a rather inauspicious history with good-looking rookie CBs here recently. |
agreed...im excited for dennard but with the exception of McCourty, all the young DBs we've had all faded by their 2nd or 3rd years.
McCourty was going to turn out the same but he bounced back in a big way this year.
Butler was especially disheartening considering he was picked relatively high in the 2nd round, and chung looks to follow in this patter judging by his play this year.
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Dennard is different. You watch his college film. You watch what he's doing now, and you notice he has that confidence, and swag, for the lack of better words. His best asset is he plays with no fear. Keep in mind this guy was a top 20 pick at one point in the process.
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24isthelaw
Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 5177
Location: Where the Patriots are
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| patsfan25 wrote: | | AlexHyun777 wrote: | | Tzimisce wrote: | | The onus is on Dennard to continue playing well. We've had a rather inauspicious history with good-looking rookie CBs here recently. |
agreed...im excited for dennard but with the exception of McCourty, all the young DBs we've had all faded by their 2nd or 3rd years.
McCourty was going to turn out the same but he bounced back in a big way this year.
Butler was especially disheartening considering he was picked relatively high in the 2nd round, and chung looks to follow in this patter judging by his play this year.
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Dennard is different. You watch his college film. You watch what he's doing now, and you notice he has that confidence, and swag, for the lack of better words. His best asset is he plays with no fear. Keep in mind this guy was a top 20 pick at one point in the process. |
Yeah, I normally don't like to use the word swag that way, but I know what you mean.
Some players are more natural than others, can play faster and don't make the same mistakes again and again. Dennard seems like a natural, and I think he can become a player like Brent Grimes.
Now all we need is Dowling to stay healthy 
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mcmurtry86
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 16180
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| patsfan25 wrote: | | ChazStandard wrote: | | Tzimisce wrote: | Opposing QBs v. Patriots
| Code: |
CMP ATT PCT YARDS Y/A TD INT RTG
-------------------------------------------------------
Weeks 1-7 169 260 65.0 1933 7.43 16 7 96.52
Weeks 8-14 137 223 61.4 1649 7.39 6 8 78.11 |
Dennard was first active in week 5; first start was week 7
McCourty was moved to safety in week 7
Talib was added to the active roster in week 11 |
To sum up: if you want a good pass defense, leave Patrick Chung handcuffed to the locker-room toilet. |
I don't know why people keep saying this. Chung is still our best tackling Safety. He's one of the better tackling Safeties in the NFL. Gregory looks like a lost kid out there and it pisses me off knowing Chung isn't much worst. He may be a liability in coverage, but he's still great in run support and brings that attitude to the defense. |
Chung being the team's best tackling safety doesn't mean much considering the alternatives.
He's definitely not one of the better tackling safeties in the NFL. Maybe he's amongst the top in trying to make big/hard hits but way too frequently he takes a bad angle at the ball carrier or tries to just hit instead of wrap and bring down. Very much like Meriweather in that regard. |
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patsfan25
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 2849
Location: CenCal
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| mcmurtry86 wrote: | | patsfan25 wrote: | | ChazStandard wrote: | | Tzimisce wrote: | Opposing QBs v. Patriots
| Code: |
CMP ATT PCT YARDS Y/A TD INT RTG
-------------------------------------------------------
Weeks 1-7 169 260 65.0 1933 7.43 16 7 96.52
Weeks 8-14 137 223 61.4 1649 7.39 6 8 78.11 |
Dennard was first active in week 5; first start was week 7
McCourty was moved to safety in week 7
Talib was added to the active roster in week 11 |
To sum up: if you want a good pass defense, leave Patrick Chung handcuffed to the locker-room toilet. |
I don't know why people keep saying this. Chung is still our best tackling Safety. He's one of the better tackling Safeties in the NFL. Gregory looks like a lost kid out there and it pisses me off knowing Chung isn't much worst. He may be a liability in coverage, but he's still great in run support and brings that attitude to the defense. |
Chung being the team's best tackling safety doesn't mean much considering the alternatives.
He's definitely not one of the better tackling safeties in the NFL. Maybe he's amongst the top in trying to make big/hard hits but way too frequently he takes a bad angle at the ball carrier or tries to just hit instead of wrap and bring down. Very much like Meriweather in that regard. |
I'm not so sure we're seeing the same. Chung is one of the best wrap up tacklers I've seen over the last few years from a DB. He goes for the occasional big hit, but I've seen him come up, get low and wrap up many times. The Meriweather comparison is laughable. Meriweather will never be the tackler Chung is.
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| Ring Worm Sherm wrote: | | You're an complete idiot |
Aite,
Peace. |
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Richter
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 9295
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| patsfan25 wrote: | | mcmurtry86 wrote: | | patsfan25 wrote: | | ChazStandard wrote: | | Tzimisce wrote: | Opposing QBs v. Patriots
| Code: |
CMP ATT PCT YARDS Y/A TD INT RTG
-------------------------------------------------------
Weeks 1-7 169 260 65.0 1933 7.43 16 7 96.52
Weeks 8-14 137 223 61.4 1649 7.39 6 8 78.11 |
Dennard was first active in week 5; first start was week 7
McCourty was moved to safety in week 7
Talib was added to the active roster in week 11 |
To sum up: if you want a good pass defense, leave Patrick Chung handcuffed to the locker-room toilet. |
I don't know why people keep saying this. Chung is still our best tackling Safety. He's one of the better tackling Safeties in the NFL. Gregory looks like a lost kid out there and it pisses me off knowing Chung isn't much worst. He may be a liability in coverage, but he's still great in run support and brings that attitude to the defense. |
Chung being the team's best tackling safety doesn't mean much considering the alternatives.
He's definitely not one of the better tackling safeties in the NFL. Maybe he's amongst the top in trying to make big/hard hits but way too frequently he takes a bad angle at the ball carrier or tries to just hit instead of wrap and bring down. Very much like Meriweather in that regard. |
I'm not so sure we're seeing the same. Chung is one of the best wrap up tacklers I've seen over the last few years from a DB. He goes for the occasional big hit, but I've seen him come up, get low and wrap up many times. The Meriweather comparison is laughable. Meriweather will never be the tackler Chung is. |
This is Patrick Chung we're talking about, right? Because the way you describe his tackling, I thought maybe you were talking about Eugene Chung after a Hugh Millen interception. |
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patsfan25
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 2849
Location: CenCal
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Richter wrote: | | patsfan25 wrote: | | mcmurtry86 wrote: | | patsfan25 wrote: | | ChazStandard wrote: | | Tzimisce wrote: | Opposing QBs v. Patriots
| Code: |
CMP ATT PCT YARDS Y/A TD INT RTG
-------------------------------------------------------
Weeks 1-7 169 260 65.0 1933 7.43 16 7 96.52
Weeks 8-14 137 223 61.4 1649 7.39 6 8 78.11 |
Dennard was first active in week 5; first start was week 7
McCourty was moved to safety in week 7
Talib was added to the active roster in week 11 |
To sum up: if you want a good pass defense, leave Patrick Chung handcuffed to the locker-room toilet. |
I don't know why people keep saying this. Chung is still our best tackling Safety. He's one of the better tackling Safeties in the NFL. Gregory looks like a lost kid out there and it pisses me off knowing Chung isn't much worst. He may be a liability in coverage, but he's still great in run support and brings that attitude to the defense. |
Chung being the team's best tackling safety doesn't mean much considering the alternatives.
He's definitely not one of the better tackling safeties in the NFL. Maybe he's amongst the top in trying to make big/hard hits but way too frequently he takes a bad angle at the ball carrier or tries to just hit instead of wrap and bring down. Very much like Meriweather in that regard. |
I'm not so sure we're seeing the same. Chung is one of the best wrap up tacklers I've seen over the last few years from a DB. He goes for the occasional big hit, but I've seen him come up, get low and wrap up many times. The Meriweather comparison is laughable. Meriweather will never be the tackler Chung is. |
This is Patrick Chung we're talking about, right? Because the way you describe his tackling, I thought maybe you were talking about Eugene Chung after a Hugh Millen interception. |
Pat Chung. He's a huge liability in coverage at this point. But no doubt, he's been a great tackling Safety in this league.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btA7uL-3LIw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ceD5WpP3AI
You should probably mute this to enjoy it more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF5qh6yGvZM
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| Ring Worm Sherm wrote: | | You're an complete idiot |
Aite,
Peace. |
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49ersfan2152
Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 683
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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So I gotta no do you guys think he is gonna stay at FS? Does Chung come back an play SS? Does Tavon Wilson play SS?
Loved the way the Pats played the other day an I was saying how thats the best iv seen them play in years. They clicked an there D is really coming togethar. Excited to play you guys. I will always wish the Pats the best an follow them, except when its the 49ers they are playing.
Going to the game gonna be weird being at a hometown teams stadium an not rooting for them, never been to a FB game before because I aint a Pats fan but live in New England, 9ers are here so I had to go.
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Tzimisce
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 40613
Location: Slowly coming to terms with the inevitable
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Chung is probably going to only be pressed into service again if one of the 3 guys ahead of him gets hurt. He's gone after this season.
No idea what Wilson's future holds. He's looked pretty bad as a rookie, but we knew he was a project from the moment he was drafted. I'd love to see the Pats pursue a Jairus Byrd or William Moore to pair with McCourty, but we'll see if the FO thinks that's a worthy allocation of resources.
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