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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Underwood wrote:
lumberjackchris wrote:
I guess will be able to decided the SEC v. Big 12 argument with the Aggies v. Sooners


Everyone knows that the SEC is the strongest conference currently. Even if it wasn't, this game still wouldn't prove a thing. What the Aggies have proven is that a Big 12 school can move into the SEC and compete right away.


Not quite everyone. We can go back and debate the fraud that is the BCS Championship game and the SEC teams that had no business in it perpetuating this myth because they win 1 big game, but this is tantamount to the NFL just deciding that the NFC East and AFC East champs should just advance to the Super Bowl every year or both. Aside from the one year Cam Newton blip (who was only at Auburn because he got kicked out of Florida), the SEC continues to be about 3 programs (Alabama, LSU, and Florida) while the Big 12, Pac 12, Big 10 each have their 2 glamor teams and there are definitely multiple teams in each of those conferences that bounce into elite status from season to season. THIS season the SEC had quality only 6 teams deep (43%), while the Big 12 had quality 9 teams deep (90%), Pac 12 8 (66%), Big 10 6 (50%). ACC & Big East continue to have no business in the discussion.

It continues to be maddening that nobody seems to care that the SEC plays one less conference game than the other conferences and schedules d2 teams in week 11. Imagine if the NFC and AFC East got to schedule a game against an Arena League team in week 15 while everyone else was still fighting for playoff positioning? That pales to the fact that nobody seems to notice that in a 14 team conference, 8 teams provided glorified bye weeks going a combined 0-47 against the other 6 teams. Teams like Vanderbilt, Miss St, and Ole Miss got to 5, 4, and 3 conference wins by beating teams who either beat nobody else in the conference or teams that only beat the other winless teams.

Meanwhile, when you go over to the Big 12 you have an 11-1 team in KState that had to go thru 9 bowl eligible teams, and a 9-2 team in OU who lost only to #1 (Notre Dame) and #5 (KState). Then from #3-#9 you have a UT team that destroyed an Ole Miss team A&M had to be gifted, and OSU team that destroyed a Lousiana-Lafayette team Florida squeaked by with another gift, Baylor who beat K-State and came close at OU, TCU who beat UT, Tech who beat WVU, WVU who beat Texas, and Iowa State that beat Iowa (unlike NIU). We will never know the relative standing of LSU, Alabama, Florida, A&M, and SC in the Big 12, but A&Ms schedule last year vs. this year shows just how much harder it is to run the gauntlet thru the Big 12 and the SEC since they basically just had to go 1-2 against the Big 3 to get to the Cotton Bowl and win Johnny a Heisman. Again, 1 quality win in the SEC is all the teams at the top seemingly need while racking up garbage wins against the bottom 8.

Before this season, I had no reference point on the SEC relative to the Big 12 and I can tell you without hesitation having watched both conferences live, that in any given week, any of those top 6 teams would lose to any of 9 teams in the Big 12, but the SEC "elite" basically each had 3 game seasons this year with Bama and Florida going 2-1, and LSU, A&M, South Carolina, and Georgia going 1-2. I'm sorry, but if K State beats Oregon and Oklahoma beats A&M, I could really care less about what happens in the BCS Championship game as once you establish that KSU & OU are every bit as elite as the SEC's elite, Big 12 teams playing 9 quality conference games vs. 3 for SEC teams makes the strength of conference argument swing in the Big 12's favor. If you define the strength of a conference by it's strength top to bottom, this isn't even a contest in a year where Arkansas, Auburn, Tenn, and Kentucky weren't just bad for SEC teams but clearly worse than 1/2 of the Sun Belt conference.

I have no doubt that the Big 12 will AGAIN have the best record in Bowl games just like last year where it went 6-2 including OSU who had legit claim to a national championship (8-2 if you include TCU and West Virginia). SEC was 6-3 last year and 5-5 the year before. As far as I'm concerned, when 9 of 10 Big 12 teams made bowls vs. 9 of 14 SEC teams despite the cupcake schedule advantage, this is already over even if people like Underwood still want to pencil in the SEC as the best conference because of the history of 3 teams and their inflated records this year.
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lumberjackchris


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo, you make some great points, but if the SEC wasnt the best conference why would other conference champion coaches bolt their conferences for the SEC?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lumberjackchris wrote:
Apollo, you make some great points, but if the SEC wasnt the best conference why would other conference champion coaches bolt their conferences for the SEC?


Don't try to ruin a good anecdote with logic and simple reasoning.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
lumberjackchris wrote:
Apollo, you make some great points, but if the SEC wasnt the best conference why would other conference champion coaches bolt their conferences for the SEC?


Don't try to ruin a good anecdote with logic and simple reasoning.


Got it. The same logic and simple reasoning that had everyone wanting to play for the Philadelphia Eagles who were surely destined to be the best team in football because they were paying the most. Why did we even bother with playoffs when the Yankees have a payroll of $197 million, Phillies $174, Red Sox $173, and Angels $154. Gosh, the Marlins must have been the most improved team in baseball last year because their payroll spiked to $118 million and all those people were banging down the doors to play there.

Remind me of any Big 12 coach bailing for the SEC? Can't think of a single one. Amazing that Bob Stoops and Mack Brown have stayed put all of these years thru openings at every SEC school. Gary Patterson? Mike Gundy? Art Briles? Bill Snyder? Will Muschamp got tired of waiting around for Mack Brown to retire, but that's no different than Charlie Weis bailing on Florida for Kansas and I'm betting you'd see Muschamp still bail on Florida for Texas in a heartbeat? Didn't Urban Meyer go from the SEC to Big 10?

If there are coaches heading to the SEC it's simply because some of those schools have been so bad of late that they keep churning thru coaches with Ark burning thru 2 coaches, plus Auburn, Ole Miss, Tenn, and Kentucky firing coaches this year (and Mizzou should have). The Arkansas gig is a solid one and Jerry and the boys backed up the brinks truck to get him and allow him to pay his assistants top dollar. If you listen to honest Wisconsin folks, they know that Bielema bolted for the SEC because he has a better chance of winning there vs. the Big 10 that Urban Meyer is about to dominate. If A&M found a path of least resistance in the SEC, why not Bielema?

As for the rest of these SEC schools, all they did was pay a fortune to get rid of coaches and didn't draw from any other program of note. Auburn not only paid $11 milion to get rid of Chizik's staff but they drew from that football mecca at Arkansas St, Tenn paid Dooley and assistants $9 million to go away and hired Cinn coach perhaps confusing Butch Jones and the disintegrating Big East with Brian Kelly. Wasn't that the same gig vacated when Lane Kiffin bolted for the Pac 12? Ole Miss was such a massive draw that they managed to lure Hugh Freeze from Lambuth College for the right to fight it out with Miss St each year for 5th place. Wasn't that another Bob Stoops little brother getting that Kentucky gig nobody ever wants? As for Vanderbilt's James Franklin, this tool voted Notre Dame behind Alabama, Georgia, and Florida in the final coaches poll which tells you all you need to know about this self-perpetuating delusion that "bigger is always better" in college athletics (ehem Notre Dame, Stanford, K State, Boise St, TCU, Baylor, BYU).

Will be really interesting to see if Kliff Kingsbury bails on A&M for Tech. We'll see how well Johnny holds up if Mike Sherman's o-line bolts to the NFL along with Swope, EZ, and most of the d. Don't forget, completely unheralded Nick Florence at Baylor still had more total offense than Johnny this year despite Aggies treating beating paltry SEC offense records as if that gets them even close to what Big 12 QBs have done. Has to hurt just a bit to know that A&M doesn't get that Heisman without help from that little insignificant school up the road in Waco with 1/10th the budget that still seems to beat A&M to the punch whether it's to an offense, a Heisman, or a new stadium.
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LORK 88


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Underwood wrote:
Grasspike wrote:
Just saw that Tuberville is leaving TT for Cincinnati... I would think that's a lateral move, at best. Not sure why he left.


"Lateral" is being extremely generous. I would guess that he left because he thought he might get fired. A lot of Tech fans weren't happy with him at all, not to mention the whole slapping the headset off of the guy on the sideline thing. I think Tech is going to be just fine after this.

The fan base was pretty much split on him. Half saw that he had potential and Tech was bringing in top 25 recruiting classes while the other half were still pissed about the Leach firing and were tired of 5+ loss seasons. If he did poorly in 2013 he was most certainly gone. This move gives him a fresh start with another "good but not great" team in a much weaker conference. I'm kind of pissed at how it happened out of the blue, but he left Tech in a better position talent-wise so it could be worse. With either Morris or Kingsbury, the AD Hocutt gets the chance to find a coach who can try to unify the fan base and be there long term. The fact that neither have been a head coach in the college ranks makes either hire a big risk, but Tech has more to gain than it does to lose at this point.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LORK 88 wrote:
Underwood wrote:
Grasspike wrote:
Just saw that Tuberville is leaving TT for Cincinnati... I would think that's a lateral move, at best. Not sure why he left.


"Lateral" is being extremely generous. I would guess that he left because he thought he might get fired. A lot of Tech fans weren't happy with him at all, not to mention the whole slapping the headset off of the guy on the sideline thing. I think Tech is going to be just fine after this.

The fan base was pretty much split on him. Half saw that he had potential and Tech was bringing in top 25 recruiting classes while the other half were still pissed about the Leach firing and were tired of 5+ loss seasons. If he did poorly in 2013 he was most certainly gone. This move gives him a fresh start with another "good but not great" team in a much weaker conference. I'm kind of pissed at how it happened out of the blue, but he left Tech in a better position talent-wise so it could be worse. With either Morris or Kingsbury, the AD Hocutt gets the chance to find a coach who can try to unify the fan base and be there long term. The fact that neither have been a head coach in the college ranks makes either hire a big risk, but Tech has more to gain than it does to lose at this point.


Personally I think Tuberville was the perfect "sorbet" to cleanse the palette from the Leach era before you get your long-term answer. He got some footing back under the program and slap-aside, brought some professionalism back from the Letch era that would have been exposed in Petrino, Larry Eustachy fashion if not for the isolation Lubbock afforded him. It's probably a year too soon for Kingsbury but if you want him, I think you have to move now or he's going to be getting calls from the really big boys next year. Personally I hope it doesn't happen as Briles and Montgomery have made Baylor the destination for WRs and QBs, and Chad Morris' Lake Travis roots may better help Tech bleed talent out of Austin and keep West Texas talent put.

People forget that Sherman got Manziel to A&M, Kliff just coached him up by hyperfocusing on him (and Evans) and I'm not so sure that translates to a Head Coach gig out at Tech where you aren't going to get son's of Hall of Fame linemen or much in the way of high priced assistants that Kilff will need. Johnny FF with a crappy defense is just Geno Atkins or Nick Florence. I do think there is a bit of risk that the shine comes off Johnny (and Kliff) a bit in year two when the pressure to top this year will be huge with the standard set at Collin Klein level where one loss = no Heisman and I've seen what happens when Aggie expectations get out of control (preseason top 10 to 7-6 in 2011). Ryan Tannehill and Jerrod Johnson could tell some tales about the difference between their first runs thru a conference schedule and their second and the one thing I will freely admit about the SEC is that it is superior defensively to the Big 12.

I recall being absolutely livid that Baylor didn't make a stronger play for Mike Singletary when his coaching star was rising as it just seemed like such a no-brainer to unite the alumni that suffered much longer than Tech's have, but obviously Briles was the better choice as the reality is that recruiting players outside the traditional Baylor bubble was the true answer to grow the program and nothing unites like winning. Kliff may be able to do both, but I think in reality he may build a great QB while Morris could build a great team. If it doesn't work out, I suspect Wes Welker will be a hot coaching name in a few years.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
LORK 88 wrote:
Underwood wrote:
Grasspike wrote:
Just saw that Tuberville is leaving TT for Cincinnati... I would think that's a lateral move, at best. Not sure why he left.


"Lateral" is being extremely generous. I would guess that he left because he thought he might get fired. A lot of Tech fans weren't happy with him at all, not to mention the whole slapping the headset off of the guy on the sideline thing. I think Tech is going to be just fine after this.

The fan base was pretty much split on him. Half saw that he had potential and Tech was bringing in top 25 recruiting classes while the other half were still pissed about the Leach firing and were tired of 5+ loss seasons. If he did poorly in 2013 he was most certainly gone. This move gives him a fresh start with another "good but not great" team in a much weaker conference. I'm kind of pissed at how it happened out of the blue, but he left Tech in a better position talent-wise so it could be worse. With either Morris or Kingsbury, the AD Hocutt gets the chance to find a coach who can try to unify the fan base and be there long term. The fact that neither have been a head coach in the college ranks makes either hire a big risk, but Tech has more to gain than it does to lose at this point.


Personally I think Tuberville was the perfect "sorbet" to cleanse the palette from the Leach era before you get your long-term answer. He got some footing back under the program and slap-aside, brought some professionalism back from the Letch era that would have been exposed in Petrino, Larry Eustachy fashion if not for the isolation Lubbock afforded him. It's probably a year too soon for Kingsbury but if you want him, I think you have to move now or he's going to be getting calls from the really big boys next year. Personally I hope it doesn't happen as Briles and Montgomery have made Baylor the destination for WRs and QBs, and Chad Morris' Lake Travis roots may better help Tech bleed talent out of Austin and keep West Texas talent put.

People forget that Sherman got Manziel to A&M, Kliff just coached him up by hyperfocusing on him (and Evans) and I'm not so sure that translates to a Head Coach gig out at Tech where you aren't going to get son's of Hall of Fame linemen or much in the way of high priced assistants that Kilff will need. Johnny FF with a crappy defense is just Geno Atkins or Nick Florence. I do think there is a bit of risk that the shine comes off Johnny (and Kliff) a bit in year two when the pressure to top this year will be huge with the standard set at Collin Klein level where one loss = no Heisman and I've seen what happens when Aggie expectations get out of control (preseason top 10 to 7-6 in 2011). Ryan Tannehill and Jerrod Johnson could tell some tales about the difference between their first runs thru a conference schedule and their second and the one thing I will freely admit about the SEC is that it is superior defensively to the Big 12.

I recall being absolutely livid that Baylor didn't make a stronger play for Mike Singletary when his coaching star was rising as it just seemed like such a no-brainer to unite the alumni that suffered much longer than Tech's have, but obviously Briles was the better choice as the reality is that recruiting players outside the traditional Baylor bubble was the true answer to grow the program and nothing unites like winning. Kliff may be able to do both, but I think in reality he may build a great QB while Morris could build a great team. If it doesn't work out, I suspect Wes Welker will be a hot coaching name in a few years.

Completely agree on Tuberville. Fans will hate the way he left, but he left Tech with more talent than it had when he arrived. Whoever becomes the next HC will have some talent to work with instead of having to hit the recruiting trail hard. Agree on Kingsbury too; does Tech get him too soon and hope he pans out or risk no getting him at all and let him become a HC somewhere else down the line? It's a risky decision either way. I have no doubt that Kingsbury has the potential to be a head coach down the line, but his lack of experience scares me, especially when it comes to defense. There's also the question of who he would bring in as his staff. It's hard to believe that someone who's been coaching 5 years would have coaches lining up to work with him .At least with Morris he has some HC experience (albeit at the HS level). It's also interesting to note that Morris coached Tech's heir-apparent at QB, Michael Brewer, in high school. I would love for Kingsbury to be the next HC, but Morris seems like more of a logical choice at this point. The reason why I keep going back to Kingsbury is because I feel he has more potential because of how young he is. Should be interesting either way.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kingsbury it is. Perfectly spun as it hit late on 12-12-12 with all of Aggieland (the 12th Man) busy worshipping at the return of Johnny Football from New York and campus parties everywhere. Ultimately, I think it's a great hire for Tech who gets the 2012 version of Mike Leach without the baggage. Tech will want to get a seasoned old fart to handle the defense and operate as the steady vet influence that allows Kliff to focus exclusively on the Qb and offense much like Wade Phillips allowed glorified QB coach Kubiak to finally succeed (Baylor will gladly offer up Phil Bennett for a few tortillas). KK will be able to recruit offense fine with Case Keenum and Johnny Manziel providing about the most perfect resume for an OC that could be imagined (along with his own as a player).

I'm going to be very interested in watching any developments with QB Jameill Showers who was supposed to be Tannehill's heir before Kingsbury locked in with JFF. I doubt he's going to sit around for 3 more years behind a freshman Heisman trophy winner and he's probably the more physically gifted QB.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
Kingsbury it is. Perfectly spun as it hit late on 12-12-12 with all of Aggieland (the 12th Man) busy worshipping at the return of Johnny Football from New York and campus parties everywhere. Ultimately, I think it's a great hire for Tech who gets the 2012 version of Mike Leach without the baggage. Tech will want to get a seasoned old fart to handle the defense and operate as the steady vet influence that allows Kliff to focus exclusively on the Qb and offense much like Wade Phillips allowed glorified QB coach Kubiak to finally succeed (Baylor will gladly offer up Phil Bennett for a few tortillas). KK will be able to recruit offense fine with Case Keenum and Johnny Manziel providing about the most perfect resume for an OC that could be imagined (along with his own as a player).

I'm going to be very interested in watching any developments with QB Jameill Showers who was supposed to be Tannehill's heir before Kingsbury locked in with JFF. I doubt he's going to sit around for 3 more years behind a freshman Heisman trophy winner and he's probably the more physically gifted QB.


Ya I imagine Showers will transfer, but idk if it'll be to Tech. Yall do have 2 stud QB's coming in the next 2 years in Webb and Gillins.

I wonder if any WR's will bolt, with a stacked class coming in in Seals-Jones, Williams and Griffen to go along with Evans this year and Johnson if he quits getting kidnapped. But yall probably don't need any help at the WR position. Saying that, the Aggies WR's are going to be sick for the foreseeable future, and they're all 6'5 and monsters.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lumberjackchris wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
Kingsbury it is. Perfectly spun as it hit late on 12-12-12 with all of Aggieland (the 12th Man) busy worshipping at the return of Johnny Football from New York and campus parties everywhere. Ultimately, I think it's a great hire for Tech who gets the 2012 version of Mike Leach without the baggage. Tech will want to get a seasoned old fart to handle the defense and operate as the steady vet influence that allows Kliff to focus exclusively on the Qb and offense much like Wade Phillips allowed glorified QB coach Kubiak to finally succeed (Baylor will gladly offer up Phil Bennett for a few tortillas). KK will be able to recruit offense fine with Case Keenum and Johnny Manziel providing about the most perfect resume for an OC that could be imagined (along with his own as a player).

I'm going to be very interested in watching any developments with QB Jameill Showers who was supposed to be Tannehill's heir before Kingsbury locked in with JFF. I doubt he's going to sit around for 3 more years behind a freshman Heisman trophy winner and he's probably the more physically gifted QB.


Ya I imagine Showers will transfer, but idk if it'll be to Tech. Yall do have 2 stud QB's coming in the next 2 years in Webb and Gillins.

I wonder if any WR's will bolt, with a stacked class coming in in Seals-Jones, Williams and Griffen to go along with Evans this year and Johnson if he quits getting kidnapped. But yall probably don't need any help at the WR position. Saying that, the Aggies WR's are going to be sick for the foreseeable future, and they're all 6'5 and monsters.


Apollo is a Baylor fan and grad, btw.

I thought Chad Morris would be a better hire, IMO. I don't think you can underestimate what those high-school connections can do for you as a program.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Johnson if he quits getting kidnapped


Yep, funny how you can go missing for 4 days after the biggest win in school history and force a statewide search involving the Texas Rangers (not the baseball team), use the press to get the word out, then once he is found provide no information to the public and cancel the press conference. Reading between the lines, Thomas Johnson certainly was NOT kidnapped and they are protecting an 18 year old kid who screwed up, but I do think there should be a certain obligation to address the issue publicly once you activate a statewide panic button. With all the "Maroon Alert" bomb threats and other crap on campus this year, they are getting very close to getting a "stop crying wolf" response from the press and the public which may be something that actually requires attention and not some freshman on a 3 day bender who didn't call mom or his coach (which is the assumption at this point in leiu of any other info).

And yes, Baylor is going to have another WR drafted in the first round this year (perhaps the first one off the board this time since he's 6' 2"), so I'm pretty confident Briles has that part of the process down. Frankly, I'm ready for him to start converting a few WRs to CBs so we don't lose games when we score 50 & 60 points.

The Aggies likely put 3 guys in the 1st round this year (Moore, Joeckel, Matthews), but the loss of Ryan Swope can't be overstated as he has been the Wes Welker of this offense for 4 years with everyone else some version of Lloyd, Branch, Stallworth, etc. Evans looked great and may become the Moss to Swope's Welker, but Johnny will need to get the ball out a heck of a lot quicker next year without Joeckel and Matthews around to let him eat a ham sandwich when he's back in the pocket. I watched the Aggies just assume a continued upward trajectory in 2011 following a great finish to 2010 while completely ignoring that losing Von Miller and Stephen Hodges just might impact the defense and this Aggie team will likely lose its bookend tackles, go to receiver, and 3 best defensive players in Moore, Porter, and Nealy. Kliff helped JFF's mental focus more than anything and I think his loss and the impossible hype around a freshman Heisman winner that will be gameplanned against by really good SEC DCs is going to set the Aggies up for a bit of a let down next year (although their cupcake schedule practically ensures an 8 win floor).
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seastrunk just said he will win the Heisman next year.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lumberjackchris wrote:
Seastrunk just said he will win the Heisman next year.


He is the nicest guy.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jacobys Homey wrote:
lumberjackchris wrote:
Seastrunk just said he will win the Heisman next year.


He is the nicest guy.


Jeez, slow news day if that gets picked up by the wire services. We need to get the Baylor Marketing team working on a memorable nickname like RGIII or Johnny Football. Lache Seastrunk just doesn't roll off the tongue well. Trunk, perhaps? I recommend Baylor fans start wearing elephant trunks to the games and blow vuvezela type horns after big runs (like elephants). Junkin Trunk also has marketing possibilities especially with Bear Butts double entendre. Get to work on that Jacoby...
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
Jacobys Homey wrote:
lumberjackchris wrote:
Seastrunk just said he will win the Heisman next year.


He is the nicest guy.


Jeez, slow news day if that gets picked up by the wire services. We need to get the Baylor Marketing team working on a memorable nickname like RGIII or Johnny Football. Lache Seastrunk just doesn't roll off the tongue well. Trunk, perhaps? I recommend Baylor fans start wearing elephant trunks to the games and blow vuvezela type horns after big runs (like elephants). Junkin Trunk also has marketing possibilities especially with Bear Butts double entendre. Get to work on that Jacoby...


I personally like Lacho the best. LacHeisman works great for social media and internet sites, but I have no clue how to say that out loud lol.

But I had a lab with him, and he was kind of my partner. He legit is the nicest guy. He doesn't set him self aside or above socially because of how good he is, but instead treats everybody the same. Treats everybody with respect. Love people like that.
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