Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

kirk cousins trade value
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Washington Redskins
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 65263
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bowilson11 wrote:
I agree we have to keep all options open. If we are offered a late 1st or early second for Cousins then the FO has to evaluate our roster and what this pick could do to help our team's success. We have glaring needs at FS and CB. London is going to play forever so we need another ILB. RAK and Carriker being out shows that another Pass Rusher is warranted. Our OL has played extremely well to date, but an RT is also a need. I don't feel that the 2013 NFL Draft is QB heavier as the 2012 draft. There are some prospects, but I don't see the Franchise type QBs in this year's draft. FOs might want a QB that has been battled test. Even though Cousins has played a lot, he has played in crunch time situations and performed well. Other than the INT, I think he looked pretty good. The Ravens game situation was pressure packed and he delivered. So, it wouldn't surprise me if a team made an offer for him that we would have to consider taking. Personally, getting an late 1st or early 2nd would give us the chance to draft David Amerson (move him to FS) and maybe package one of our 5th round picks and our 2nd round pick to move up in the second round and grab CB Jordan Poyer or Desmond Trufant. That would be the start of a really good draft for the Redskins.
This! Thank you! Someone finally sees how great it could be to have a late 1st and our 2nd or a high 2nd and our 2nd. We could get 3 top 90 prospects in this draft if the opportunity presented itself where we could move cousins for a higher draft choice.
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md

"God made certain people to play football... Sean was one" JG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
RSkinGM


Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 4035
Location: Richmond, Va
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think he'll be traded, unless he gets to start a game or 3 and lights it up. A team could take a chance on him cause he's under the rookie 4 year contract--That could be an incentive.. Might lose some draft pick(s) but you get a cheap young developing QB..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sassan11


Joined: 05 Aug 2010
Posts: 1212
Location: DMV
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
bowilson11 wrote:
I agree we have to keep all options open. If we are offered a late 1st or early second for Cousins then the FO has to evaluate our roster and what this pick could do to help our team's success. We have glaring needs at FS and CB. London is going to play forever so we need another ILB. RAK and Carriker being out shows that another Pass Rusher is warranted. Our OL has played extremely well to date, but an RT is also a need. I don't feel that the 2013 NFL Draft is QB heavier as the 2012 draft. There are some prospects, but I don't see the Franchise type QBs in this year's draft. FOs might want a QB that has been battled test. Even though Cousins has played a lot, he has played in crunch time situations and performed well. Other than the INT, I think he looked pretty good. The Ravens game situation was pressure packed and he delivered. So, it wouldn't surprise me if a team made an offer for him that we would have to consider taking. Personally, getting an late 1st or early 2nd would give us the chance to draft David Amerson (move him to FS) and maybe package one of our 5th round picks and our 2nd round pick to move up in the second round and grab CB Jordan Poyer or Desmond Trufant. That would be the start of a really good draft for the Redskins.
This! Thank you! Someone finally sees how great it could be to have a late 1st and our 2nd or a high 2nd and our 2nd. We could get 3 top 90 prospects in this draft if the opportunity presented itself where we could move cousins for a higher draft choice.


Great and realistic are two different things in this situation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 65263
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sassan11 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
bowilson11 wrote:
I agree we have to keep all options open. If we are offered a late 1st or early second for Cousins then the FO has to evaluate our roster and what this pick could do to help our team's success. We have glaring needs at FS and CB. London is going to play forever so we need another ILB. RAK and Carriker being out shows that another Pass Rusher is warranted. Our OL has played extremely well to date, but an RT is also a need. I don't feel that the 2013 NFL Draft is QB heavier as the 2012 draft. There are some prospects, but I don't see the Franchise type QBs in this year's draft. FOs might want a QB that has been battled test. Even though Cousins has played a lot, he has played in crunch time situations and performed well. Other than the INT, I think he looked pretty good. The Ravens game situation was pressure packed and he delivered. So, it wouldn't surprise me if a team made an offer for him that we would have to consider taking. Personally, getting an late 1st or early 2nd would give us the chance to draft David Amerson (move him to FS) and maybe package one of our 5th round picks and our 2nd round pick to move up in the second round and grab CB Jordan Poyer or Desmond Trufant. That would be the start of a really good draft for the Redskins.
This! Thank you! Someone finally sees how great it could be to have a late 1st and our 2nd or a high 2nd and our 2nd. We could get 3 top 90 prospects in this draft if the opportunity presented itself where we could move cousins for a higher draft choice.


Great and realistic are two different things in this situation.
no doubt it's a big if. I've never denied that but if you are asking me do I want a back up qb for 4 years or a starting FS, LB, NT, CB or RT in this years draft or next years draft because we could trade cousins away for a late 1st or early 2nd- ill take the starter and find another back up in the draft or FA.
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md

"God made certain people to play football... Sean was one" JG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 8134
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teams passed on him in the draft last year why would they all of a sudden offer a 1st rd pick for him? Matt Flynn had a better resume and no one traded for him.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Thaiphoon


Moderator
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 15282
Location: Northern Virginia
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Sassan11 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
bowilson11 wrote:
I agree we have to keep all options open. If we are offered a late 1st or early second for Cousins then the FO has to evaluate our roster and what this pick could do to help our team's success. We have glaring needs at FS and CB. London is going to play forever so we need another ILB. RAK and Carriker being out shows that another Pass Rusher is warranted. Our OL has played extremely well to date, but an RT is also a need. I don't feel that the 2013 NFL Draft is QB heavier as the 2012 draft. There are some prospects, but I don't see the Franchise type QBs in this year's draft. FOs might want a QB that has been battled test. Even though Cousins has played a lot, he has played in crunch time situations and performed well. Other than the INT, I think he looked pretty good. The Ravens game situation was pressure packed and he delivered. So, it wouldn't surprise me if a team made an offer for him that we would have to consider taking. Personally, getting an late 1st or early 2nd would give us the chance to draft David Amerson (move him to FS) and maybe package one of our 5th round picks and our 2nd round pick to move up in the second round and grab CB Jordan Poyer or Desmond Trufant. That would be the start of a really good draft for the Redskins.
This! Thank you! Someone finally sees how great it could be to have a late 1st and our 2nd or a high 2nd and our 2nd. We could get 3 top 90 prospects in this draft if the opportunity presented itself where we could move cousins for a higher draft choice.


Great and realistic are two different things in this situation.
no doubt it's a big if. I've never denied that but if you are asking me do I want a back up qb for 4 years or a starting FS, LB, NT, CB or RT in this years draft or next years draft because we could trade cousins away for a late 1st or early 2nd- ill take the starter and find another back up in the draft or FA.


See the bolded. That's when I would try to trade him (after next year) so instead of trading him now for this coming draft, you let him play backup for another year. With RG3 getting injured, this may work out to maybe 3 games or so in the two years (along with some spot duty here and there either in relief or to mop up). Either way, even if he plays the next three games I doubt anyone is going to come off a 2nd or 1rst for him. That's way too much for teams to give up given the Kolb/Cassel/Flynn experiences lately.

At best at team might be willing to give us a 3rd or 4th this coming offseason (provided he plays the remaining three games and does well).

So what would be the best value in this situation?

Keep him another year. His value is the same value of car insurance. Its value is not that you're spending money on it each month. Its value is when you need to use it. I don't think another 6th or 7th round backup QB (or even Rex for that matter) could come in cold like Cousins did and perform like he did. If this team is serious about being playoff contenders next year, Cousins needs to have his butt on our sideline in case we need a GOOD QB to come in a bail us out for part of a game (or a game or two). So his value right now for us (given my scenario of a 3rd or 4th from another team) is to be the backup for 2013.

THEN...if he plays some more and does well in his duty (think Schaub) we might be able to translate that into a 2nd rounder for him (or a 1rst if he lights the league on fire) in 2014 draft.

This way we get value out of him helping backup RG3 and helping keep us in the playoff hunt next year and then we still get value for him in 2014.

BTW - I also understand that a team might want to come and give us a 2nd this coming draft if Cousins plays lights-out football in the next three games (assuming RG3 is out any appreciable time) because of the QB position not being that strong this coming draft.

P.S. - The reason why I say to keep Cousins right now is also of an historic nature. Cousins is a good QB and one who could be starting on some teams right now. But think of this:

Only one team has gone undefeated in NFL history. The 1972 Miami Dolphins. Who was the QB for most of that season? Yeah, the BACKUP QB ...Earl Morrall.
_________________


Being Vague Is Almost As Much Fun As That Other Thing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
footy_29


Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 11433
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sassan11 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
bowilson11 wrote:
I agree we have to keep all options open. If we are offered a late 1st or early second for Cousins then the FO has to evaluate our roster and what this pick could do to help our team's success. We have glaring needs at FS and CB. London is going to play forever so we need another ILB. RAK and Carriker being out shows that another Pass Rusher is warranted. Our OL has played extremely well to date, but an RT is also a need. I don't feel that the 2013 NFL Draft is QB heavier as the 2012 draft. There are some prospects, but I don't see the Franchise type QBs in this year's draft. FOs might want a QB that has been battled test. Even though Cousins has played a lot, he has played in crunch time situations and performed well. Other than the INT, I think he looked pretty good. The Ravens game situation was pressure packed and he delivered. So, it wouldn't surprise me if a team made an offer for him that we would have to consider taking. Personally, getting an late 1st or early 2nd would give us the chance to draft David Amerson (move him to FS) and maybe package one of our 5th round picks and our 2nd round pick to move up in the second round and grab CB Jordan Poyer or Desmond Trufant. That would be the start of a really good draft for the Redskins.
This! Thank you! Someone finally sees how great it could be to have a late 1st and our 2nd or a high 2nd and our 2nd. We could get 3 top 90 prospects in this draft if the opportunity presented itself where we could move cousins for a higher draft choice.


Great and realistic are two different things in this situation.


Yes!

What rookie backup QB raises his value from a 4th rounder to a 1st rounder with 11 snaps? Even if he started 5 games this year and was awesome, you'd have a hard time getting a first back.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
redskins4789


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 2682
Location: Enterprise Alabama
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep him for 1-2 more years and build his resume through filling in for RG3 and pre-season and i'm confident he can get a a pretty good pick down the road there will always be teams desperate for QBs.
_________________
RIP #21 Sean Taylor

Deadpulse on the sig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Thaiphoon


Moderator
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 15282
Location: Northern Virginia
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

footy_29 wrote:
Sassan11 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
bowilson11 wrote:
I agree we have to keep all options open. If we are offered a late 1st or early second for Cousins then the FO has to evaluate our roster and what this pick could do to help our team's success. We have glaring needs at FS and CB. London is going to play forever so we need another ILB. RAK and Carriker being out shows that another Pass Rusher is warranted. Our OL has played extremely well to date, but an RT is also a need. I don't feel that the 2013 NFL Draft is QB heavier as the 2012 draft. There are some prospects, but I don't see the Franchise type QBs in this year's draft. FOs might want a QB that has been battled test. Even though Cousins has played a lot, he has played in crunch time situations and performed well. Other than the INT, I think he looked pretty good. The Ravens game situation was pressure packed and he delivered. So, it wouldn't surprise me if a team made an offer for him that we would have to consider taking. Personally, getting an late 1st or early 2nd would give us the chance to draft David Amerson (move him to FS) and maybe package one of our 5th round picks and our 2nd round pick to move up in the second round and grab CB Jordan Poyer or Desmond Trufant. That would be the start of a really good draft for the Redskins.
This! Thank you! Someone finally sees how great it could be to have a late 1st and our 2nd or a high 2nd and our 2nd. We could get 3 top 90 prospects in this draft if the opportunity presented itself where we could move cousins for a higher draft choice.


Great and realistic are two different things in this situation.


Yes!

What rookie backup QB raises his value from a 4th rounder to a 1st rounder with 11 snaps? Even if he started 5 games this year and was awesome, you'd have a hard time getting a first back.


This has been my point. The earliest we could get anything for him is after the 2013 season.
_________________


Being Vague Is Almost As Much Fun As That Other Thing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bowilson11


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 111
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

footy_29 wrote:
Sassan11 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
bowilson11 wrote:
I agree we have to keep all options open. If we are offered a late 1st or early second for Cousins then the FO has to evaluate our roster and what this pick could do to help our team's success. We have glaring needs at FS and CB. London is going to play forever so we need another ILB. RAK and Carriker being out shows that another Pass Rusher is warranted. Our OL has played extremely well to date, but an RT is also a need. I don't feel that the 2013 NFL Draft is QB heavier as the 2012 draft. There are some prospects, but I don't see the Franchise type QBs in this year's draft. FOs might want a QB that has been battled test. Even though Cousins has played a lot, he has played in crunch time situations and performed well. Other than the INT, I think he looked pretty good. The Ravens game situation was pressure packed and he delivered. So, it wouldn't surprise me if a team made an offer for him that we would have to consider taking. Personally, getting an late 1st or early 2nd would give us the chance to draft David Amerson (move him to FS) and maybe package one of our 5th round picks and our 2nd round pick to move up in the second round and grab CB Jordan Poyer or Desmond Trufant. That would be the start of a really good draft for the Redskins.
This! Thank you! Someone finally sees how great it could be to have a late 1st and our 2nd or a high 2nd and our 2nd. We could get 3 top 90 prospects in this draft if the opportunity presented itself where we could move cousins for a higher draft choice.


Great and realistic are two different things in this situation.


Yes!

What rookie backup QB raises his value from a 4th rounder to a 1st rounder with 11 snaps? Even if he started 5 games this year and was awesome, you'd have a hard time getting a first back.
I understand what you are saying, but I just don't think the crop of QBs in the 2013 draft are that good. With that being said, a FO has to look at using a pick on a Tyler Bray, Landry Jones, ELJ Manuel or a Aaron Murray. I feel that Cousins brings what they bring and more because he has seen live NFL action, he's one year removed from college and he has a rookie friendly contract. I'm a realist and no the chance of this happening is remote, but if the offer comes to our FO we have to give it real consideration based on the team's needs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 65263
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ speaking my language, although, I do see it happening at some point in the offseason. Either leading up to preseason or if Cousins has a great preseason again and a team has injuries to their qbs or heir qb rotation just sucks throughout the preseason.
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md

"God made certain people to play football... Sean was one" JG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
footy_29


Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 11433
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bowilson11 wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
Sassan11 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
bowilson11 wrote:
I agree we have to keep all options open. If we are offered a late 1st or early second for Cousins then the FO has to evaluate our roster and what this pick could do to help our team's success. We have glaring needs at FS and CB. London is going to play forever so we need another ILB. RAK and Carriker being out shows that another Pass Rusher is warranted. Our OL has played extremely well to date, but an RT is also a need. I don't feel that the 2013 NFL Draft is QB heavier as the 2012 draft. There are some prospects, but I don't see the Franchise type QBs in this year's draft. FOs might want a QB that has been battled test. Even though Cousins has played a lot, he has played in crunch time situations and performed well. Other than the INT, I think he looked pretty good. The Ravens game situation was pressure packed and he delivered. So, it wouldn't surprise me if a team made an offer for him that we would have to consider taking. Personally, getting an late 1st or early 2nd would give us the chance to draft David Amerson (move him to FS) and maybe package one of our 5th round picks and our 2nd round pick to move up in the second round and grab CB Jordan Poyer or Desmond Trufant. That would be the start of a really good draft for the Redskins.
This! Thank you! Someone finally sees how great it could be to have a late 1st and our 2nd or a high 2nd and our 2nd. We could get 3 top 90 prospects in this draft if the opportunity presented itself where we could move cousins for a higher draft choice.


Great and realistic are two different things in this situation.


Yes!

What rookie backup QB raises his value from a 4th rounder to a 1st rounder with 11 snaps? Even if he started 5 games this year and was awesome, you'd have a hard time getting a first back.
I understand what you are saying, but I just don't think the crop of QBs in the 2013 draft are that good. With that being said, a FO has to look at using a pick on a Tyler Bray, Landry Jones, ELJ Manuel or a Aaron Murray. I feel that Cousins brings what they bring and more because he has seen live NFL action, he's one year removed from college and he has a rookie friendly contract. I'm a realist and no the chance of this happening is remote, but if the offer comes to our FO we have to give it real consideration based on the team's needs.


But that's my point, there will be no offer greater than a third rounder. While that is increased value, why do it to create another whole? A valuable young back-up is more important than a third rounder this year.

If a team looking for a QB saw next years draft and didn't like the group, they would have taken a chance on Kirk Cousins this past draft. As it stands, there will be other QBs that teams like over the next two years, and it will take a herculean effort on the part of Cousins to get a team to even think about trading more than a third for him.

If RGIII is out, and Kirk Cousins leads the Redskins to three wins, posting 350+ yards and 3 TDs in each game, that still won't get the Redskins a first round pick. Until he proves that he is a Matt Schaub type QB - and Schaub had 161 passing attempts and showed more as a passer in his offense than Vick - teams aren't going to trade for him.

As I've said before, we will have to see Cousins throw the ball 150+ times with great success before a team would agree to trade a first for him, and it's much more likely to be comparable to Matt Schaub's (essentially two second rounders) because the team who trades for him will be picking early.

---------------

My final comment on this topic (reiterating my thoughts):

It's fool-hardy to think that Cousins could be trade before the 2014 off-season. That is the EARLIEST it could happen, and even then the value will not be enough to warrant trading him. If you think that Cousins can be a starter, then you sit on him and develop him as long as you possibly can. You do not even entertain the thought of trading him until the 2015 off-season is over.

You give Cousins three full off-seasons, and perhaps a handful or more of regular season games because of injuries to your starter. You need to romanticize Cousins and make him seem like a sure-bet. You make Cousins appear like a potential top 15 QB in the NFL. With his tutelage under Shanahan for three full years, you can convince a GM that Cousins understands the mental part of the position and can come in and be your starter and your team leader immediately.

Cousins is not going to be traded before 2014, not even a hope. I'd say it's 5% likely that he is traded before the 2015 draft.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RSkinGM


Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 4035
Location: Richmond, Va
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, none other than Mr Charlie Casserly, who has a bit of NFL GM experience said last night -- Teams will be coming after him,,and he could garner TWO second round picks ,,HIGH second round picks .. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 65263
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
Well, none other than Mr Charlie Casserly, who has a bit of NFL GM experience said last night -- Teams will be coming after him,,and he could garner TWO second round picks ,,HIGH second round picks .. Wink
dont forget where you heard it first!! Wink
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md

"God made certain people to play football... Sean was one" JG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
bowilson11


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 111
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
Well, none other than Mr Charlie Casserly, who has a bit of NFL GM experience said last night -- Teams will be coming after him,,and he could garner TWO second round picks ,,HIGH second round picks .. Wink
dont forget where you heard it first!! Wink
Turtle, maybe folks will listen to us when we speak. We aren't saying that it's a definite that teams will come after Cousins, but because this years QB crop is shaky at best teams will be looking at Cousins because he is tested. Their choice is to spend a late first or early second on a QB that hasn't been tested in the NFL game situation or go get someone whom you have film on. I still think we will be offered a high second round pick in 2013 draft.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Washington Redskins All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 3 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group