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Vomit Land Part 2: Josh McDaniels to the Browns?
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Dawgpoun8017


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 12135
Location: Waterloo,NY
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DawgSoldier wrote:
Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
DawgSoldier wrote:
Josh McDaniels "O" is looking good on MNF.
Alot of peoples offenses will look good with tom brady as your QB


Then why didn't BB "evil Genius" hire him back if things were going so well Question
Familiararity, Mcdanials likes to throw alot which utiilizes their best player, arguably the best QB in the league, and in the argument of the best QB of this era, Tom Brady and the pats were good before Mcdanials, and they will be after
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ditchdigger


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DawgSoldier wrote:
Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
DawgSoldier wrote:
Josh McDaniels "O" is looking good on MNF.
Alot of peoples offenses will look good with tom brady as your QB


Then why didn't BB "evil Genius" hire him back if things were going so well Question


Ummm... because their OC left to coach Penn State, and McDaniels fetches a mean cup of coffee.
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clubberlang


Joined: 04 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I first heard all of these lombardi rumors I figured McDaniels name would come up. Lombardi loves him some Josh McDaniels. Personally I think McDaniels could be a very good head coach. He has a great offensive mind and is still very young. He would be on my interview list of possible head coaches.

I think one of his biggest problems in Denver was having too much power. Being that young with that much control wasn't the best situation for a first time head coach. I wouldn't be opposed to rolling the dice with him if I got the feeling he learned from his first stint. Plus weeden would have someone his own age to hang out with.

Now as far as lombardi, no thanks. I don't mind lombardi in his current role as talking head. I just wouldn't want him calling shots on draft day. I really would like to see tom stay. I think there might be some legs to these lombardi rumors though. A lot of smoke there and everyday it seems to be a new rumor with his name.
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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a Broncos fan I can speak from experience.

Now listen to me very carefully, because this is a HUGE misconception about what happened in Denver. Josh McDaniels (or Mac as I've come to call him) did not fail here because he was given too much power or because he made bad personnel decisions. Yes, he was given too much power and yes he made horrendous personnel decisions.

But I would argue that Mac was a worse head coach, worse presence in the team offices, in the lockerroom, on the practice field and on the sideline than he was as a de facto GM. Yes I know that is a saying a lot, but yes, he was that bad.

His first order of business was to divide the lockerroom. He got rid of players who were fan favorites and key pieces of the Shanahan regime. He didn't do this because they were bad football players but because he needed a cadre of lackeys and yes-men, and, according to players I've spoke with, spies in lockerroom. He wanted players who would be "his" guys. He got rid of Mike Leach, the best LS in the NFL, and signed Lonie Paxton to a $1m/yr contract. Why? Mike Leach was great but Mac needed some people from New England. As Browns fans, you know this having suffered through Eric Mangini and, to a lesser extent, Romeo Crennel.

Don't believe me? Take it from none other than future Hall of Famer Champ Bailey. Bailey told the Denver Post in February 2011 (after Elway was hired and made his first order of business resigning Champ):

Champ Bailey wrote:
"I know I could have got something worked out once Josh McDaniels left. And things did work out didn't they?"


Telling that Mac wasn't going to re-sign one of the greatest Broncos of all time and Bailey wasn't going to re-sign as long as Mac was here says all that needs to be said about the culture Mac created at Dove Valley.

On top of dividing the lockerroom, Mac divided the coaching staff between "his" guys and guys from the Shanahan regime. Why do you think Mike Nolan left after 1 year? (Yes Nolan wasn't a Shanahan guy, Mac hired him but he bolted a year after working for Mac). Mac told him to stop blitzing after week 6. Yes, we were 6-0 and Mac decided to start tinkering (or totally changing because Nolan's defense was different than the Belichick/New England D) with an area of the team that was FAR from his field of expertise. How did that work? We went 2-8 in the next 10 games. He then hired another yes-man, Don Martindale, to run the defense. Wink had no experience whatsoever coordinating a defense. Rick Dennison (OC) and Bobby Turner (RBs coach) left after Mac's first year. Dennison is a Colorado native, he went to CSU, his family lived in Denver, he played for the Broncos and coached for us since his retirement. He uprooted all of that and left the second he could to get away from Mac.

The front office was the same way. Mac fired Jim and Jeff Goodman, Shanahan's respected player personnel men. He replaced them with yes-man Brian Xanders (who Elway fired last May) and Matt Russell and Keith Kidd, from the Patriots personnel department.

Mac couldn't design game-plans and wouldn't make adjustments. He flat-out told the Denver Post that he didn't believe in making adjustments because he believed in his game plan entering the game. When we were down 59-14 to the Raiders, he felt it wasn't necessary to make changes to the pre-determined game plan.

People in the team headquarters (known as "Dove Valley" among Broncos fans) were paranoid. The environment Mac created and fostered was described as being similar to the Nixon White House - constant paranoia, back-stabbing, spying, etc. Mac even went so far as to take down pictures of players of Broncos past.

Mac divided the media. Those who wanted access to the team couldn't write negative articles or say bad things about him or his players on the radio/TV if they wanted to maintain their access. Respected sportswriters like Mike Klis and Mark Kizla and radio personalities like Mike Evans became loathed by the fan base for their McDaniels cheerleading and became known as "McDaniels apologists." Their reputations have still not fully recovered.

Partly because of the culture he created but moreso because of his inabilities to do anything other than what was done in New England made him an awful coach. If it wasn't done in New England, it wouldn't be done in Denver. Mac took a franchise with a proud history and a unique identity and tried to transform it into the Patriots-West. Fans were irate. The Broncos are the Broncos, they're not an expansion team or the Jacksonville Jaguars.

Mac was unable, or unwilling, or most likely, unable and unwilling, to make the best use of his available talent. Every player was put into a New England role. Eddie Royal was to be Wes Welker. Chris Kuper was to be Logan Mankins. Jay Cutler wasn't Tom Brady so he was traded for Kyle Orton. The Patriots drafted Rob Gronkowski so Mac traded for Dan Gronkowski. Mac traded a first-round pick for Alphonso Smith. Smith was small, slow, a moron and a jerk and all that was known going into the draft.

Mac only was experienced on one team with one head coach - New England. So he didn't know how to do anything a different way. He hadn't learned from multiple coaches and developed his own way. He's not now. After being fired here and in St Louis he had "run home to daddy" as I like to say because it was the only place he was successful. Unless he's bringing Tom Brady with him to Cleveland, he will fail again just like Mangini, Weis, Crennel, Mangini again, Crennel again, Pioli and himself.

All in all it was the worst thing I've ever gone through as a fan. Those 20 months that Mac was here were the lowest 20 months in Broncos history. The McSpyGate scandal - brought about because Mac fired Denver's video crew and replaced them with Scarneccia and his people (who was responsible for SpyGate in New England) - was the tipping point. At his last home game as head coach, Invesco field stadium security worried about Mac's safety so, rather than have him walk into the stadium and out of it using the players tunnel, he was surrounded by security staff and shuttled down the stairs directly behind the bench, a route usually reserved for players seriously injured or sick. That's how angry fans were, Mac was so loathed he was in personal danger. Now, that's terrible and inexcusable by Broncos fans, but it speaks to the type of environment that surrounded the team during his tenure.

Browns fans are among the most loyal and passionate in the NFL. They've suffered long enough. You deserve SO much better than Lombardi and McDaniels. For your sakes, I hope these rumors are untrue.

Sorry for the dissertation but I feel you guys deserve an accurate assessment of what to expect.
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Dropkick_pride


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 10805
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
As a Broncos fan I can speak from experience.

Now listen to me very carefully, because this is a HUGE misconception about what happened in Denver. Josh McDaniels (or Mac as I've come to call him) did not fail here because he was given too much power or because he made bad personnel decisions. Yes, he was given too much power and yes he made horrendous personnel decisions.

But I would argue that Mac was a worse head coach, worse presence in the team offices, in the lockerroom, on the practice field and on the sideline than he was as a de facto GM. Yes I know that is a saying a lot, but yes, he was that bad.

His first order of business was to divide the lockerroom. He got rid of players who were fan favorites and key pieces of the Shanahan regime. He didn't do this because they were bad football players but because he needed a cadre of lackeys and yes-men, and, according to players I've spoke with, spies in lockerroom. He wanted players who would be "his" guys. He got rid of Mike Leach, the best LS in the NFL, and signed Lonie Paxton to a $1m/yr contract. Why? Mike Leach was great but Mac needed some people from New England. As Browns fans, you know this having suffered through Eric Mangini and, to a lesser extent, Romeo Crennel.

Don't believe me? Take it from none other than future Hall of Famer Champ Bailey. Bailey told the Denver Post in February 2011 (after Elway was hired and made his first order of business resigning Champ):

Champ Bailey wrote:
"I know I could have got something worked out once Josh McDaniels left. And things did work out didn't they?"


Telling that Mac wasn't going to re-sign one of the greatest Broncos of all time and Bailey wasn't going to re-sign as long as Mac was here says all that needs to be said about the culture Mac created at Dove Valley.

On top of dividing the lockerroom, Mac divided the coaching staff between "his" guys and guys from the Shanahan regime. Why do you think Mike Nolan left after 1 year? (Yes Nolan wasn't a Shanahan guy, Mac hired him but he bolted a year after working for Mac). Mac told him to stop blitzing after week 6. Yes, we were 6-0 and Mac decided to start tinkering (or totally changing because Nolan's defense was different than the Belichick/New England D) with an area of the team that was FAR from his field of expertise. How did that work? We went 2-8 in the next 10 games. He then hired another yes-man, Don Martindale, to run the defense. Wink had no experience whatsoever coordinating a defense. Rick Dennison (OC) and Bobby Turner (RBs coach) left after Mac's first year. Dennison is a Colorado native, he went to CSU, his family lived in Denver, he played for the Broncos and coached for us since his retirement. He uprooted all of that and left the second he could to get away from Mac.

The front office was the same way. Mac fired Jim and Jeff Goodman, Shanahan's respected player personnel men. He replaced them with yes-man Brian Xanders (who Elway fired last May) and Matt Russell and Keith Kidd, from the Patriots personnel department.

Mac couldn't design game-plans and wouldn't make adjustments. He flat-out told the Denver Post that he didn't believe in making adjustments because he believed in his game plan entering the game. When we were down 59-14 to the Raiders, he felt it wasn't necessary to make changes to the pre-determined game plan.

People in the team headquarters (known as "Dove Valley" among Broncos fans) were paranoid. The environment Mac created and fostered was described as being similar to the Nixon White House - constant paranoia, back-stabbing, spying, etc. Mac even went so far as to take down pictures of players of Broncos past.

Mac divided the media. Those who wanted access to the team couldn't write negative articles or say bad things about him or his players on the radio/TV if they wanted to maintain their access. Respected sportswriters like Mike Klis and Mark Kizla and radio personalities like Mike Evans became loathed by the fan base for their McDaniels cheerleading and became known as "McDaniels apologists." Their reputations have still not fully recovered.

Partly because of the culture he created but moreso because of his inabilities to do anything other than what was done in New England made him an awful coach. If it wasn't done in New England, it wouldn't be done in Denver. Mac took a franchise with a proud history and a unique identity and tried to transform it into the Patriots-West. Fans were irate. The Broncos are the Broncos, they're not an expansion team or the Jacksonville Jaguars.

Mac was unable, or unwilling, or most likely, unable and unwilling, to make the best use of his available talent. Every player was put into a New England role. Eddie Royal was to be Wes Welker. Chris Kuper was to be Logan Mankins. Jay Cutler wasn't Tom Brady so he was traded for Kyle Orton. The Patriots drafted Rob Gronkowski so Mac traded for Dan Gronkowski. Mac traded a first-round pick for Alphonso Smith. Smith was small, slow, a moron and a jerk and all that was known going into the draft.

Mac only was experienced on one team with one head coach - New England. So he didn't know how to do anything a different way. He hadn't learned from multiple coaches and developed his own way. He's not now. After being fired here and in St Louis he had "run home to daddy" as I like to say because it was the only place he was successful. Unless he's bringing Tom Brady with him to Cleveland, he will fail again just like Mangini, Weis, Crennel, Mangini again, Crennel again, Pioli and himself.

All in all it was the worst thing I've ever gone through as a fan. Those 20 months that Mac was here were the lowest 20 months in Broncos history. The McSpyGate scandal - brought about because Mac fired Denver's video crew and replaced them with Scarneccia and his people (who was responsible for SpyGate in New England) - was the tipping point. At his last home game as head coach, Invesco field stadium security worried about Mac's safety so, rather than have him walk into the stadium and out of it using the players tunnel, he was surrounded by security staff and shuttled down the stairs directly behind the bench, a route usually reserved for players seriously injured or sick. That's how angry fans were, Mac was so loathed he was in personal danger. Now, that's terrible and inexcusable by Broncos fans, but it speaks to the type of environment that surrounded the team during his tenure.

Browns fans are among the most loyal and passionate in the NFL. They've suffered long enough. You deserve SO much better than Lombardi and McDaniels. For your sakes, I hope these rumors are untrue.

Sorry for the dissertation but I feel you guys deserve an accurate assessment of what to expect.


Thank you!

I'm with this guy....
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dawgdish


Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 2342
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got the impression that McDaniels was the smug, divisive, harda@# type that AnAngryAmerican illustrates in his post from day one. You could see it in his Denver pressers. It reminds me of Mangini, to tell you the truth. These Belichick disciples who try to be the gruff, rude, Napoleanic dictator that Belichick is (those of us old enough to remember his stint with the Browns know it all too well) without all the winning and S.B. rings that make that kind of attitude/personality tolerable in The Hoodie. Throw in Lombardi on top of that? This would be classic Cleveland Browns. Just as we're starting to show a glimmer of promise...
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NPBrowns


Joined: 16 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really hope Lombardi/McDaniels duo stays in their current roles. I do not want them to be here one bit. Also who made Tebow a 1st round pick in Denver? McDaniels. So I'm only assuming if Lombardi/McDaniels is here, then the Browns would have a strong possibility of bringing Tebow here. I'm getting increasingly agitated the more I type so I'm going to stop.
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Dawgpoun8017


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NPBrowns wrote:
I really hope Lombardi/McDaniels duo stays in their current roles. I do not want them to be here one bit. Also who made Tebow a 1st round pick in Denver? McDaniels. So I'm only assuming if Lombardi/McDaniels is here, then the Browns would have a strong possibility of bringing Tebow here. I'm getting increasingly agitated the more I type so I'm going to stop.




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rre63


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow that was a great rant/post.. Lots of great
information I had no idea about.
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candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
NPBrowns wrote:
I really hope Lombardi/McDaniels duo stays in their current roles. I do not want them to be here one bit. Also who made Tebow a 1st round pick in Denver? McDaniels. So I'm only assuming if Lombardi/McDaniels is here, then the Browns would have a strong possibility of bringing Tebow here. I'm getting increasingly agitated the more I type so I'm going to stop.





Oh God...

I hope you're proud of yourself NPB because now DP is upset
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Dawgpoun8017


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
NPBrowns wrote:
I really hope Lombardi/McDaniels duo stays in their current roles. I do not want them to be here one bit. Also who made Tebow a 1st round pick in Denver? McDaniels. So I'm only assuming if Lombardi/McDaniels is here, then the Browns would have a strong possibility of bringing Tebow here. I'm getting increasingly agitated the more I type so I'm going to stop.





Oh God...

I hope you're proud of yourself NPB because now DP is upset


If we bring that over glorified punt protector in...... I am just going to snap
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