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After Sunday, it's Chip Kelly or Bust
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TwoToneBlue


Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 6917
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

-Hope- wrote:
Chocolateman78 wrote:
Chip Kelly in my eyes is fools gold. His offense would be a very Tebow-esque type experiment. It might work, but I have a huge doubts about the effectiveness of Chip Kelly in the pros. Here are a few...

A) You can't out talent teams in the pros. A major reason why Oregon's offense is so effective is because on most Saturday's, Oregon is man for man, bigger, stronger, and most importantly faster than their opponents. This will not be the case in the pros.

B) What about TOP?? Time of possession is so crucial for long term success. Oregon's offense is predicated on running as many offensive plays as possible. That's great when the opposing defense isn't fast enough or fit enough to keep up. In the pros, this will mean alot of 3 and outs. That kills your defense.

C) Can he develop a QB?? This is to be seen. We know he needs a mobile one to run that zone-read.Can he then coach him to make those throws into tight NFL windows. most mobile QB's struggle with that. Gimmicks can only work so long, eventually you have to drop back and throw the ball accurately downfield.

D)How does he deal with turmoil Quite simply there haven't been too many rainy days on the football forecast in Eugene. How does he keep morale up when his team loses more times in 1 season than he has in 4 years at Oregon.

E) He has no NFL experience Ziltch, at any level. and you want him to run a Franchise? That sounds like giving a kid the keys to a Ferrari and putting him on the Autobuan, when his only experience is go-carts on a dirt track.

Hiring Chip Kelly would be a desperation move meant to attract publicity. This just reeks of Spurrier signing with the Redskins from his dynasty at Florida years back.

A fair rebuttal. This could indeed be possible. But I think this article (long, but worth a read) does a good job of outlining the potential positives of Kelly as a coach.


Beat you to the article -Hope- Wink

But I agree with you 100%. Those are all reasons why hiring Kelly could be a bad idea. I just think the potential outweighs the risks.
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J.Redd10


Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 964
Location: Memphis TN
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KYLE SHANAHAN KYLE SHANAHAN. Yea lol all you want at me but he's NFL tested an offensive genius & is well respected around the league.
He's young fiery,passionate, about the game.
He knows how 2 adjust to player personnel. During his stint with HOU he called a top 5 offense every yr. He knows how to take advantage of players SKILL set.
RG 3. FRED DAVIS ANDRE JOHNSON ARIAN FOSTER.
we have a gun Salinger mobile tough QB in locker
An athletic freak explosive TE in Cook & Thompson.
a freak beast of a WR when healthy in Kenny Britt
A playmaker electric WR in da making with kendell.
& I believe he will help evolve CJ game to the next level more like how the Rams used Marshall Faulkner towards his prime.
MY DREAM coaching staff is Shanahan HC. Eric Mangini DC & hue Jackson OC..
Sign laron Landry & cliff avril switch to a 34 defense.
And assign Michael Griffin to parking lot duty or equipment mangr till he's 93.
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KingTitan


Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 10391
Location: Nashville,TN
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chocolateman78 wrote:
Chip Kelly in my eyes is fools gold. His offense would be a very Tebow-esque type experiment. It might work, but I have a huge doubts about the effectiveness of Chip Kelly in the pros. Here are a few...

A) You can't out talent teams in the pros. A major reason why Oregon's offense is so effective is because on most Saturday's, Oregon is man for man, bigger, stronger, and most importantly faster than their opponents. This will not be the case in the pros.

B) What about TOP?? Time of possession is so crucial for long term success. Oregon's offense is predicated on running as many offensive plays as possible. That's great when the opposing defense isn't fast enough or fit enough to keep up. In the pros, this will mean alot of 3 and outs. That kills your defense.

C) Can he develop a QB?? This is to be seen. We know he needs a mobile one to run that zone-read.Can he then coach him to make those throws into tight NFL windows. most mobile QB's struggle with that. Gimmicks can only work so long, eventually you have to drop back and throw the ball accurately downfield.

D)How does he deal with turmoil Quite simply there haven't been too many rainy days on the football forecast in Eugene. How does he keep morale up when his team loses more times in 1 season than he has in 4 years at Oregon.

E) He has no NFL experience Ziltch, at any level. and you want him to run a Franchise? That sounds like giving a kid the keys to a Ferrari and putting him on the Autobuan, when his only experience is go-carts on a dirt track.

Hiring Chip Kelly would be a desperation move meant to attract publicity. This just reeks of Spurrier signing with the Redskins from his dynasty at Florida years back.


Exactly!
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-Hope-


Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 20889
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J.Redd10 wrote:
KYLE SHANAHAN KYLE SHANAHAN. Yea lol all you want at me but he's NFL tested an offensive genius & is well respected around the league.
He's young fiery,passionate, about the game.
He knows how 2 adjust to player personnel. During his stint with HOU he called a top 5 offense every yr. He knows how to take advantage of players SKILL set.
RG 3. FRED DAVIS ANDRE JOHNSON ARIAN FOSTER.
we have a gun Salinger mobile tough QB in locker
An athletic freak explosive TE in Cook & Thompson.
a freak beast of a WR when healthy in Kenny Britt
A playmaker electric WR in da making with kendell.
& I believe he will help evolve CJ game to the next level more like how the Rams used Marshall Faulkner towards his prime.
MY DREAM coaching staff is Shanahan HC. Eric Mangini DC & hue Jackson OC..
Sign laron Landry & cliff avril switch to a 34 defense.
And assign Michael Griffin to parking lot duty or equipment mangr till he's 93.

This is actually a great suggestion as well. One thing he's shown is that he's obviously willing to build a system that plays to the strengths of his players and make adjustments.
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KingTitan


Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 10391
Location: Nashville,TN
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-Hope- wrote:
J.Redd10 wrote:
KYLE SHANAHAN KYLE SHANAHAN. Yea lol all you want at me but he's NFL tested an offensive genius & is well respected around the league.
He's young fiery,passionate, about the game.
He knows how 2 adjust to player personnel. During his stint with HOU he called a top 5 offense every yr. He knows how to take advantage of players SKILL set.
RG 3. FRED DAVIS ANDRE JOHNSON ARIAN FOSTER.
we have a gun Salinger mobile tough QB in locker
An athletic freak explosive TE in Cook & Thompson.
a freak beast of a WR when healthy in Kenny Britt
A playmaker electric WR in da making with kendell.
& I believe he will help evolve CJ game to the next level more like how the Rams used Marshall Faulkner towards his prime.
MY DREAM coaching staff is Shanahan HC. Eric Mangini DC & hue Jackson OC..
Sign laron Landry & cliff avril switch to a 34 defense.
And assign Michael Griffin to parking lot duty or equipment mangr till he's 93.

This is actually a great suggestion as well. One thing he's shown is that he's obviously willing to build a system that plays to the strengths of his players and make adjustments.


I'm worried about him as a Head Coach. Not a playcaller. He just doesn't seem to have that vibe of leader of men.
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Chocolateman78


Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 5329
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TwoToneBlue wrote:
-Hope- wrote:
Chocolateman78 wrote:
Chip Kelly in my eyes is fools gold. His offense would be a very Tebow-esque type experiment. It might work, but I have a huge doubts about the effectiveness of Chip Kelly in the pros. Here are a few...

A) You can't out talent teams in the pros. A major reason why Oregon's offense is so effective is because on most Saturday's, Oregon is man for man, bigger, stronger, and most importantly faster than their opponents. This will not be the case in the pros.

B) What about TOP?? Time of possession is so crucial for long term success. Oregon's offense is predicated on running as many offensive plays as possible. That's great when the opposing defense isn't fast enough or fit enough to keep up. In the pros, this will mean alot of 3 and outs. That kills your defense.

C) Can he develop a QB?? This is to be seen. We know he needs a mobile one to run that zone-read.Can he then coach him to make those throws into tight NFL windows. most mobile QB's struggle with that. Gimmicks can only work so long, eventually you have to drop back and throw the ball accurately downfield.

D)How does he deal with turmoil Quite simply there haven't been too many rainy days on the football forecast in Eugene. How does he keep morale up when his team loses more times in 1 season than he has in 4 years at Oregon.

E) He has no NFL experience Ziltch, at any level. and you want him to run a Franchise? That sounds like giving a kid the keys to a Ferrari and putting him on the Autobuan, when his only experience is go-carts on a dirt track.

Hiring Chip Kelly would be a desperation move meant to attract publicity. This just reeks of Spurrier signing with the Redskins from his dynasty at Florida years back.

A fair rebuttal. This could indeed be possible. But I think this article (long, but worth a read) does a good job of outlining the potential positives of Kelly as a coach.


Beat you to the article -Hope- Wink

But I agree with you 100%. Those are all reasons why hiring Kelly could be a bad idea. I just think the potential outweighs the risks.


I read it, its a nice read up on how the spread offense works... at the college level. It doesn't do much to answer any of the questions I proposed. Spreading a team out doesn't leave pro teams nearly as vulnerable as it does college defenses. Sometimes their 5 defenders will beat your 5 blockers and when that happens, there will be alot of 3 and outs. I think it should be noted the trip ups Oregon's offense has suffered at the hands of good defenses over the past few years. Those few teams who have the defensive firepower to stand toe to toe with Oregon have done so with success.

Not saying Kelly's not intriguing. but my intrigue in him is as an OC to begin with, not letting him take the HC hat with 0 experience in the pro game. That's a recipe for disaster.
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TwoToneBlue


Joined: 22 May 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazing how Patriots tempo unraveled the Texans defense.

Chip Kelly could bring that to us.
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Chocolateman78


Joined: 31 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TwoToneBlue wrote:
Amazing how Patriots tempo unraveled the Texans defense.

Chip Kelly could bring that to us.


Also amazing how the Patriots are also quarterbacked by one of the games greatest ever.

Chip Kelly isn't bringing Tom Brady to Nashville
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Dionysus


Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 1694
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chocolateman78 wrote:
TwoToneBlue wrote:
Amazing how Patriots tempo unraveled the Texans defense.

Chip Kelly could bring that to us.


Also amazing how the Patriots are also quarterbacked by one of the games greatest ever.

Chip Kelly isn't bringing Tom Brady to Nashville


LMAO!!!
Laughing Applause

I'm not taking sides here, but that response was just too funny to me. I hit the floor laughing as soon as I read it. That was good sh-t! <still laughing> Laughing
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FootballProdiG


Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Posts: 8216
Location: The Film Room
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chocolateman78 wrote:
TwoToneBlue wrote:
Amazing how Patriots tempo unraveled the Texans defense.

Chip Kelly could bring that to us.


Also amazing how the Patriots are also quarterbacked by one of the games greatest ever.

Chip Kelly isn't bringing Tom Brady to Nashville


Coaching > Players. We could maximize our potential with Kelly. Munchak is holding everyone back like a giant anchor.
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TwoToneBlue


Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 6917
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chocolateman78 wrote:
TwoToneBlue wrote:
Amazing how Patriots tempo unraveled the Texans defense.

Chip Kelly could bring that to us.


Also amazing how the Patriots are also quarterbacked by one of the games greatest ever.

Chip Kelly isn't bringing Tom Brady to Nashville


Who the QB is doesn't have anything to do with tempo. It's a coaching choice.

Yes Brady is good, but I'm talking about plays where the Texans D was confused out of place because of quick snaps. One play where Hernandez was uncovered for an easy TD. A couple of plays where they got off quick runs where the Texans D-line was in the middle of a shift. These plays go for easy gains regardless of who the QB is.
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KingTitan


Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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Location: Nashville,TN
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TwoToneBlue wrote:
Chocolateman78 wrote:
TwoToneBlue wrote:
Amazing how Patriots tempo unraveled the Texans defense.

Chip Kelly could bring that to us.


Also amazing how the Patriots are also quarterbacked by one of the games greatest ever.

Chip Kelly isn't bringing Tom Brady to Nashville


Who the QB is doesn't have anything to do with tempo. It's a coaching choice.

Yes Brady is good, but I'm talking about plays where the Texans D was confused out of place because of quick snaps. One play where Hernandez was uncovered for an easy TD. A couple of plays where they got off quick runs where the Texans D-line was in the middle of a shift. These plays go for easy gains regardless of who the QB is.


QB has everything to do with an offense period...
I wouldn't mistake a couple miscues by the Texans as being the norm against every hurry up..

Also the Patriots look like that when they running a normal huddle-type drive. They are a machine with Brady 90% of the time.

Can the QB decipher the defense? Is he smart enough to hold 5-10 plays in his head to call at any moment. Is he a good QB period. Can his arm handle fast reptition like that? And some other QB mumbojumbo that I can think of...lol

But you can't discount having an Hall of Fame QB. I don't think Jamarcus Russell would look the same as Brady running an uptempo/No-huddle offense.

My main thing with Kelly is that I think he is just getting by having the best athletes not so much outcoaching teams.
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titansNvolsR#1


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Except Kelly rarely has the best athletes. UO for whatever reason rarely has the best recruiting classes.
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TwoToneBlue


Joined: 22 May 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingTitan wrote:
TwoToneBlue wrote:
Chocolateman78 wrote:
TwoToneBlue wrote:
Amazing how Patriots tempo unraveled the Texans defense.

Chip Kelly could bring that to us.


Also amazing how the Patriots are also quarterbacked by one of the games greatest ever.

Chip Kelly isn't bringing Tom Brady to Nashville


Who the QB is doesn't have anything to do with tempo. It's a coaching choice.

Yes Brady is good, but I'm talking about plays where the Texans D was confused out of place because of quick snaps. One play where Hernandez was uncovered for an easy TD. A couple of plays where they got off quick runs where the Texans D-line was in the middle of a shift. These plays go for easy gains regardless of who the QB is.


QB has everything to do with an offense period...
I wouldn't mistake a couple miscues by the Texans as being the norm against every hurry up..

Can the QB decipher the defense? Is he smart enough to hold 5-10 plays in his head to call at any moment. Is he a good QB period. Can his arm handle fast reptition like that? And some other QB mumbojumbo that I can think of...lol

But you can't discount having an Hall of Fame QB. I don't think Jamarcus Russell would look the same as Brady running an uptempo/No-huddle offense.

My main thing with Kelly is that I think he is just getting by having the best athletes not so much outcoaching teams.



No they don't look like that against most team's hurry up offenses. But most teams don't run the hurry up as quickly as the Patriots. I remember a stat showed during last night's game. It was somewhere in the neighborhood of an average of 25 seconds between each play which was the lowest in the league. The Patriots hurry up isn't like most teams in the league, but it is like the one that Kelly has created at Oregon. The Patriots have even had Kelly in for some consultation in the offseason. I don't think that means much, but I do think the hurry up philosophies are very similar.
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-Hope-


Joined: 16 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

titansNvolsR#1 wrote:
Except Kelly rarely has the best athletes. UO for whatever reason rarely has the best recruiting classes.

This. The "oh he has better athletes than everyone" just isn't a valid point. The Ducks offense embarrassed Wisconsin's top-ranked defense last season, and it sure as hell wasn't because all of their athletes were better.
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