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The J.R.S.
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
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 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| S-jax39 wrote: | | The J.R.S. wrote: | | S-jax39 wrote: | I think Sam will turn it up these last few games. We dont exactly play great defenses the rest of the way (I dont think seahawks are nearly as good as they were with sherman and browner, and their pass rush has fallen off.)
Also, the number of picks hes thrown imo is misleading. Alot of those picks were shots downfield when the game is lost. Taking a step back and just looking at the season as a whole I think Sam has done a good job with what he has. People want elite production but NO qb in the league has elite production with subpar weapons and a subpar line. Its just not how it works. |
What? Not true at all. The lengths to which some people will go to sugarcoat Sam's mediocre play can be laughable at times. |
Maybe not 'alot', but a decent number of those were made when the game was over IIRC. The ones I recall that arent are the two PP ones, the one to fletch in the endzdone, and the jets one.
Also dude, STOP. No ones going through any lengths to sugarcoat anything. Maybe a poor choice of words on my part, but my point remains the same: People want Bradford to have elite production when no qb in the league has elite production with a subpar line and subpar wrs. |
I don't care if Sam leads the league in any statistic or not, I just want to see him be an impact player. This year, he has been solid, but inconsistent.
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jrry32
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| The J.R.S. wrote: | | S-jax39 wrote: | I think Sam will turn it up these last few games. We dont exactly play great defenses the rest of the way (I dont think seahawks are nearly as good as they were with sherman and browner, and their pass rush has fallen off.)
Also, the number of picks hes thrown imo is misleading. Alot of those picks were shots downfield when the game is lost. Taking a step back and just looking at the season as a whole I think Sam has done a good job with what he has. People want elite production but NO qb in the league has elite production with subpar weapons and a subpar line. Its just not how it works. |
What? Not true at all. The lengths to which some people will go to sugarcoat Sam's mediocre play can be laughable at times. |
I can remember three based purely on my memory. There was one against Chicago, one against NE and one against GB that might have fit that criteria. The one against GB was in a 17-6 game right before the 4th quarter so that one is questionable. It came on a play where he was pressured, didn't step into his deep throw to Givens and was picked off by Hayward because it was under-thrown.
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The J.R.S.
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
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Location: Next to Waldo
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| jrry32 wrote: | | The J.R.S. wrote: | | S-jax39 wrote: | I think Sam will turn it up these last few games. We dont exactly play great defenses the rest of the way (I dont think seahawks are nearly as good as they were with sherman and browner, and their pass rush has fallen off.)
Also, the number of picks hes thrown imo is misleading. Alot of those picks were shots downfield when the game is lost. Taking a step back and just looking at the season as a whole I think Sam has done a good job with what he has. People want elite production but NO qb in the league has elite production with subpar weapons and a subpar line. Its just not how it works. |
What? Not true at all. The lengths to which some people will go to sugarcoat Sam's mediocre play can be laughable at times. |
I can remember three based purely on my memory. There was one against Chicago, one against NE and one against GB that might have fit that criteria. The one against GB was in a 17-6 game right before the 4th quarter so that one is questionable. It came on a play where he was pressured, didn't step into his deep throw to Givens and was picked off by Hayward because it was under-thrown. |
I dont think 2-3 instances out of 12 constitutes a trend. Sam is actually doing a fair job of protecting the ball overall though.
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jrry32
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:34 am Post subject: |
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Wanted to post this here, posted this on another board in a Sam Bradford discussion after the game.
| Quote: | I'll say this much, I have been critical of Bradford after that performance because I don't think he played well. But at the same time, he came through in crunch time yet again with some luck.
Sam is really starting to remind me of Eli Manning. Eli was a guy who didn't light up the stat sheets and was considered every bit an iffy guy his first 3 years in the league. A lot of people questioned if he'd ever be a franchise QB and if he'd ever rise above the mediocre level he was playing at. They questioned if he had the "it" factor and complained that he wasn't living up to the #1 billing. They second guessed the trade with San Diego, etc., etc.
You get the point here.
However, when Eli really turned that proverbial corner in his career, it didn't necessarily show up on the stat sheet that year. But what Eli started to become was a guy who elevated his play and the play of his team in crunch time. Statistically, through his first 39 starts, Eli had 4 4th Quarter Comebacks and 5 Game Winning Drives. In 2007, during the regular season, Eli managed 6 Game Winning Drives and 5 4th Quarter Comebacks. But in other stats, he was playing about the same as he always had. Sam after only having 1 GWD and 1 4QC through his first 26 starts, has 4 4QCs and 3 GWDs thus far this year.
Obviously, when it came to the playoffs, Eli ended up continuing his trend of coming up big. And they won the Super Bowl. After the 2007 season, Eli's stats started to show a QB who had turned the corner.
What am I saying here? I'm saying that showing up in crunch time might just indicate that Sam is nearing his proverbial corner. We'll see how he finishes the year out but I think at some point, people are going to stop complaining if he continues to deliver.
That same thing happened to Eli. Some Giants fans were talking about drafting a new QB before the 2007 season(some wanted Brady Quinn). They thought Eli wasn't ever going to progress past where he was...an inconsistent mediocre QB. They ended up realizing they were wrong.
Frankly, if you go back and watch 2004 to 2006 Eli Manning, I think you'd see a very similar QB to Sam Bradford. Similar build, both have/had all the arm talent needed to be great but weren't consistent, both got erratic at times when they didn't feel comfortable and both had that chaotic pocket presence...where they looked great at times and then looked like a scared deer in the headlights at other times.
Am I saying Sam is Eli Manning? No. But I am saying that if you remember Eli's career progression and watched him back before he became the Eli we know now when he was considered a borderline bust, you'd see a lot of parallels. |
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NVRamsFan
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:47 am Post subject: |
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Agree 100% jrry. I was saying some of those very same things after the game in SF to the people I went with. He's finding in himself a winner and when he comes to that full realization it's going to be a great thing to watch.
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The J.R.S.
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| jrry32 wrote: | Wanted to post this here, posted this on another board in a Sam Bradford discussion after the game.
| Quote: | I'll say this much, I have been critical of Bradford after that performance because I don't think he played well. But at the same time, he came through in crunch time yet again with some luck.
Sam is really starting to remind me of Eli Manning. Eli was a guy who didn't light up the stat sheets and was considered every bit an iffy guy his first 3 years in the league. A lot of people questioned if he'd ever be a franchise QB and if he'd ever rise above the mediocre level he was playing at. They questioned if he had the "it" factor and complained that he wasn't living up to the #1 billing. They second guessed the trade with San Diego, etc., etc.
You get the point here.
However, when Eli really turned that proverbial corner in his career, it didn't necessarily show up on the stat sheet that year. But what Eli started to become was a guy who elevated his play and the play of his team in crunch time. Statistically, through his first 39 starts, Eli had 4 4th Quarter Comebacks and 5 Game Winning Drives. In 2007, during the regular season, Eli managed 6 Game Winning Drives and 5 4th Quarter Comebacks. But in other stats, he was playing about the same as he always had. Sam after only having 1 GWD and 1 4QC through his first 26 starts, has 4 4QCs and 3 GWDs thus far this year.
Obviously, when it came to the playoffs, Eli ended up continuing his trend of coming up big. And they won the Super Bowl. After the 2007 season, Eli's stats started to show a QB who had turned the corner.
What am I saying here? I'm saying that showing up in crunch time might just indicate that Sam is nearing his proverbial corner. We'll see how he finishes the year out but I think at some point, people are going to stop complaining if he continues to deliver.
That same thing happened to Eli. Some Giants fans were talking about drafting a new QB before the 2007 season(some wanted Brady Quinn). They thought Eli wasn't ever going to progress past where he was...an inconsistent mediocre QB. They ended up realizing they were wrong.
Frankly, if you go back and watch 2004 to 2006 Eli Manning, I think you'd see a very similar QB to Sam Bradford. Similar build, both have/had all the arm talent needed to be great but weren't consistent, both got erratic at times when they didn't feel comfortable and both had that chaotic pocket presence...where they looked great at times and then looked like a scared deer in the headlights at other times.
Am I saying Sam is Eli Manning? No. But I am saying that if you remember Eli's career progression and watched him back before he became the Eli we know now when he was considered a borderline bust, you'd see a lot of parallels. |
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Or, you could go back to page 5 of this thread and read the original article that El Ramster pointed out. They suspiciously contain the exact same information:
http://www.ramsherd.com/2012-articles/season/sam-bradford-vs-eli-manning-on-the-franchise-quarterback-growth-curve.html
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FosterTheSkins
Joined: 19 Oct 2012
Posts: 329
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| El ramster wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | holt_bruce81 wrote: | | Pretty much saying that Sam is poop. At least that was my interpretation of it. |
I just don't understand the context. Do you have the full quote? |
Here
Those guys are crazy.. |
I wouldn't be to down on Sam just yet. its a bit to soon to talk about wouldve's and couldve's. A lot of quarterbacks looked like hot garbage there first couple years then blew up.
Bradford will either be Jason Campbell,  , or Eli Manning. A guy who wasn't worth where he was drafted at and is just a carrer back up, at best. Or a guy who took a little longer to developed but paid off because his team stuck with him, riding out the rough patches.
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jrry32
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 31462
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| The J.R.S. wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | Wanted to post this here, posted this on another board in a Sam Bradford discussion after the game.
| Quote: | I'll say this much, I have been critical of Bradford after that performance because I don't think he played well. But at the same time, he came through in crunch time yet again with some luck.
Sam is really starting to remind me of Eli Manning. Eli was a guy who didn't light up the stat sheets and was considered every bit an iffy guy his first 3 years in the league. A lot of people questioned if he'd ever be a franchise QB and if he'd ever rise above the mediocre level he was playing at. They questioned if he had the "it" factor and complained that he wasn't living up to the #1 billing. They second guessed the trade with San Diego, etc., etc.
You get the point here.
However, when Eli really turned that proverbial corner in his career, it didn't necessarily show up on the stat sheet that year. But what Eli started to become was a guy who elevated his play and the play of his team in crunch time. Statistically, through his first 39 starts, Eli had 4 4th Quarter Comebacks and 5 Game Winning Drives. In 2007, during the regular season, Eli managed 6 Game Winning Drives and 5 4th Quarter Comebacks. But in other stats, he was playing about the same as he always had. Sam after only having 1 GWD and 1 4QC through his first 26 starts, has 4 4QCs and 3 GWDs thus far this year.
Obviously, when it came to the playoffs, Eli ended up continuing his trend of coming up big. And they won the Super Bowl. After the 2007 season, Eli's stats started to show a QB who had turned the corner.
What am I saying here? I'm saying that showing up in crunch time might just indicate that Sam is nearing his proverbial corner. We'll see how he finishes the year out but I think at some point, people are going to stop complaining if he continues to deliver.
That same thing happened to Eli. Some Giants fans were talking about drafting a new QB before the 2007 season(some wanted Brady Quinn). They thought Eli wasn't ever going to progress past where he was...an inconsistent mediocre QB. They ended up realizing they were wrong.
Frankly, if you go back and watch 2004 to 2006 Eli Manning, I think you'd see a very similar QB to Sam Bradford. Similar build, both have/had all the arm talent needed to be great but weren't consistent, both got erratic at times when they didn't feel comfortable and both had that chaotic pocket presence...where they looked great at times and then looked like a scared deer in the headlights at other times.
Am I saying Sam is Eli Manning? No. But I am saying that if you remember Eli's career progression and watched him back before he became the Eli we know now when he was considered a borderline bust, you'd see a lot of parallels. |
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Or, you could go back to page 5 of this thread and read the original article that El Ramster pointed out. They suspiciously contain the exact same information:
http://www.ramsherd.com/2012-articles/season/sam-bradford-vs-eli-manning-on-the-franchise-quarterback-growth-curve.html |
Not really. Nor is it really suspicious at all. Connection has been there for awhile. But it was the same comparison through different viewpoints.
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S-jax39
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:30 am Post subject: |
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I dont see the comparison to Eli at all to be honest. Eli was a turnover machine, missed alot of throws, and had a good team around him.
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El ramster
Joined: 13 May 2008
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Location: Sam Bradfords Bed!
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:42 am Post subject: |
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The Inconsistency is what we link. But to be fair! Eli had a very good Oline and a great Running game, We have yet to surround Sam with some insane talent. But he made Denario and Michael Clayton look like top notch WR's.
Just a shame Denario could not have stayed healthy..
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jrry32
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| El ramster wrote: | The Inconsistency is what we link. But to be fair! Eli had a very good Oline and a great Running game, We have yet to surround Sam with some insane talent. But he made Denario and Michael Clayton look like top notch WR's.
Just a shame Denario could not have stayed healthy.. |
Mark Clayton 
But Danario is doing the same thing in SD so I'm not really sure it was him making Danario do anything.
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El ramster
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 24407
Location: Sam Bradfords Bed!
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| jrry32 wrote: | | El ramster wrote: | The Inconsistency is what we link. But to be fair! Eli had a very good Oline and a great Running game, We have yet to surround Sam with some insane talent. But he made Denario and Michael Clayton look like top notch WR's.
Just a shame Denario could not have stayed healthy.. |
Mark Clayton
But Danario is doing the same thing in SD so I'm not really sure it was him making Danario do anything. |
But Rivers Is/Was an elite QB
You like that uhhh.. 
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El ramster
Joined: 13 May 2008
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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So what are you feelings about him now? 2 games left..
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ctp2124
Joined: 15 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| El ramster wrote: | | So what are you feelings about him now? 2 games left.. |
He is clearly playing better than he was last year. Today was a bit of a disappointment. Besides the pick 6, he missed on a lot of throws in the first half. If he connects with Givens to end the half its an entirely different game.
I still think he will be an elite (top 5) QB. I fully expect us to surround him with weapons next year to help him develop. I want either a top draft talent (Keenan, Hunter, Williams, or Rogers) or a top FA like Wallace or Bowe.
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Brodie
Joined: 17 Apr 2012
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Location: Oakland
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:53 am Post subject: |
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He has come along way from the looks of it. He may not have the sexiest numbers but he makes throws that just make you say "yeah he is gonna be raw". I think if we surround him with a weapon or two next year he will breakout into the top ten. Would easily take him over Stafford who is the same age I think
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