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Ravens @ Redskins GDT (Week 14)
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 7717
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
Theoretically if we win out and end up with the Broncos and Pats at 12-4, how would the seedings go?

And yes, I know that even with Cam getting fired winning out is a tall order.


You would think that Baltimore is definitely the 2nd seed in that scenario since they beat both teams but I'm not sure if that's the first tiebreaker in a 3+ team tie.
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JROD82891


Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Posts: 259
Location: Virginia Beach
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dashing wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
mozwanted wrote:
Do you guys see why i feel the same about flacco? you cant possibly tell me no one was open all that time against the redskins


You don't know our offense routes. I can almost guarantee it was all verts with Rice leaking out of the backfield after pretending to block for a second.

ConvenientTruth wrote:
Welp. At least the Steelers and Bengals lost....


Yep. PIT is still playing but they're not coming back.
IDK every game with Flacco seems like hes inconsistent sometimes. IMO he'll never get you a SB you need some one better and this is the honest truth. Like in the game i was like 3 tds from this guy? and even in the other thread i said and quotes" We need to blitz him he is a statue who takes alot of time to throw" . Sadly enough our bonehead DC finally blitzed and it completely shook Flacco and did nothing.

Sorry to say I think hes similar to Matt Ryan a guy who gets you to the playoffs but thats about it , he cant take you to another level on offense IMO.


He takes a lot of time to throw because every route in our playbook is designed to be 20 yards plus. Getting blindsided twice 2.5 seconds after you snap the ball is being shook? Protection deficiencies and scheme with a lack of pocket awareness are the factors here. Definitely nothing to do with him getting "shook."

Also I really don't understand where this "standard" across fanbases came from with needing an "elite" qb. There are only about 4-5 "elite" QBs and 32 teams. Dropping a qb who was a dropped pass from a SB to take those chances doesn't make sense to me.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
Theoretically if we win out and end up with the Broncos and Pats at 12-4, how would the seedings go?

And yes, I know that even with Cam getting fired winning out is a tall order.

If we win out and the Broncos/Pats finish 12-4, we win the #2 seed. As we'd have the tie-breaker over both teams. Here are the rules that state that:

Tie-Breaking procedures wrote:
OTHER TIE-BREAKING PROCEDURES
4. To determine home-field priority for Wild Card qualifiers, apply division tie-breakers (if teams are from the same division) or Wild Card tiebreakers (if teams are from different divisions).

TO BREAK A TIE FOR THE WILD-CARD TEAM
Three or More Clubs

(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of applicable two-club format.)

1. Apply division tie breaker to eliminate all but the highest ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. The original seeding within a division upon application of the division tie breaker remains the same for all subsequent applications of the procedure that are necessary to identify the two Wild-Card participants.

2. Head-to-head sweep. (Applicable only if one club has defeated each of the others or if one club has lost to each of the others.)

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dcarey20


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thoughts (which have all probably been said already):

Joe Flacco: I've been largely a Flacco supporter, and still am, but the consistency has GOT to be better. Hopefully Cameron's recent firing will help, but I'm tired of the inconsistency over 4 quarters, and most importantly I am tired of the pocket awareness that leads to the fumbles and what not that completely changes games. The interception was also unacceptable, you've got to either get that ball out quicker (throw it at someone's feet) or just eat the sack and take the field goal (because 3 points there wins us the ballgame).

I'm still down for an extension for this guy obviously, but the organization has to look into how much money he's going to get, because at this point in his career he's still making the mistakes that everyone expected him to correct.

Michael Oher: Not even sure what to make of Oher. We can certainly do worse at tackle, but he's another guy who we are going to have to take a hard look at. He's due for an extension, and even with his struggles, someone (whether it be us or another team) is going to pay him. We all know he isn't a bad option per se, but he's another guy that isn't where we thought he would be at this point. Ultimately we've got to decide whether he is worth the money he will cost or whether we should look for a less costly option that may be able to provide similar performance. His future with the team shoudl be looked at.

Injuries: We've been unlucky here, but I think we really saw a big impact from having the guys out that we've had. Josh Bynes was getting action this game and already I can tell that he's just not an NFL caliber linebacker. Jameel McClain has always been an average to slight above average player, but I think he's regressed this year and when he's your top ILB there's going to be issues. Same goes for our corners. Chris Johnson and Corey Graham are fine #4 or #5 guys, but you can see the negatives when there out there as #2 and #3 guys. And with respect to Graham, he's been playing his heart out, but ability wise you can tell he's just not a big time cover corner.

Overall, we're still 9-4, it hurts to lose to these last two games though when you consider who we are playing over the next 3 weeks. We'll see how we respond, I've still got faith we'll pull through and be in a decent position come playoff time.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My opinion:

We move Oher back to RT where he can still be a borderline elite to above-average RT (better than what he is now at LT), and either draft a future LT in the 1st round of this upcoming draft (very deep at OL), or we move KO over there and take the risk there. Either way, I just don't think Oher is an NFL-caliber LT right now.

As for the injuries, obviously we just don't have the playmakers at the depth positions. It's understandable, but we should AT LEAST have guys that can play the position, and right now we simply don't even have that. Chris Johnson looks lost on the field, Bynes looks lost, Ayan looks lost...we just need to get healthy or find guys who can contribute.
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Mancunian Raven


Joined: 09 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dashing wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
mozwanted wrote:
Do you guys see why i feel the same about flacco? you cant possibly tell me no one was open all that time against the redskins


You don't know our offense routes. I can almost guarantee it was all verts with Rice leaking out of the backfield after pretending to block for a second.

ConvenientTruth wrote:
Welp. At least the Steelers and Bengals lost....


Yep. PIT is still playing but they're not coming back.
IDK every game with Flacco seems like hes inconsistent sometimes. IMO he'll never get you a SB you need some one better and this is the honest truth. Like in the game i was like 3 tds from this guy? and even in the other thread i said and quotes" We need to blitz him he is a statue who takes alot of time to throw" . Sadly enough our bonehead DC finally blitzed and it completely shook Flacco and did nothing.

Sorry to say I think hes similar to Matt Ryan a guy who gets you to the playoffs but thats about it , he cant take you to another level on offense IMO.


But he got the Ravens to the Super Bowl last season. He threw the TD pass that would have beaten the Patriots (barring some absurdly efficient drive from Brady). Lee Evans dropped the ball.

As has been pointed out, the reasons he holds onto the ball for so long are either that the receivers are still in the process of running 30 yards down the field for yet another deep route, or they're covered and neutralised.

Flacco certainly doesn't want to be holding onto the ball for that long, because it gets him hit, and then he gets sacked, and sometimes he'll then fumble. Whichever way it goes, it's bad for him. So of course he would love to get the ball out almost instantly when he's able to.

Hopefully our new OC will delve deep into the playbook and see if he can find a slant or a cross in there anywhere.

And if he can, then the offense can mix things up a little more, which will make them less predictable, which will hopefully temper the pass rushes that our average O-line often struggles to pick up, which should mean that Flacco has more time on the deep routes when they're called.
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Integrity


Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
My opinion:

We move Oher back to RT where he can still be a borderline elite to above-average RT (better than what he is now at LT), and either draft a future LT in the 1st round of this upcoming draft (very deep at OL), or we move KO over there and take the risk there. Either way, I just don't think Oher is an NFL-caliber LT right now.


I wouldn't be opposed to putting Oher back at RT, but not if we're going to put KO at left. Honestly, all you would be doing is taking a bad situation and making it worse. Drafting a LT early and having him compete for the spot would be ideal. If he wins out, then Oher can play RT and KO can play LG. Then all we would need is a center and our OL would be complete. I'm hoping Gradkowski puts on the weight he needs to over the off season and we don't have to use another draft pick there.
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Mancunian Raven


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Integrity wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
My opinion:

We move Oher back to RT where he can still be a borderline elite to above-average RT (better than what he is now at LT), and either draft a future LT in the 1st round of this upcoming draft (very deep at OL), or we move KO over there and take the risk there. Either way, I just don't think Oher is an NFL-caliber LT right now.


I wouldn't be opposed to putting Oher back at RT, but not if we're going to put KO at left. Honestly, all you would be doing is taking a bad situation and making it worse. Drafting a LT early and having him compete for the spot would be ideal. If he wins out, then Oher can play RT and KO can play LG. Then all we would need is a center and our OL would be complete. I'm hoping Gradkowski puts on the weight he needs to over the off season and we don't have to use another draft pick there.


Right now I think Oher is the best answer the Ravens have at LT, and Osemele is the next best thing to Oher at RT. So chopping and changing them at this point would probably do more harm than good.

I think Oher needs a steady, reliable presence at LG, because I've seen a few occasions where his attention has been dragged inside, allowing guys to get around the outside. Jah Reid isn't the answer at LG, as far as I can tell. Neither is Bobbie Williams. So if the Ravens draft O-line at all this year, my first choice would be for a Guard who they can plug into the line right away.

Hopefully Gradkowski will be ready to go next year, because Birk is done.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bottom line from my POV is that keeping Oher at LT is going to get Joe killed one day. Joe has shown he can't improve pocket awareness so instead of having a turntable at LT, we need someone who can actually block.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mancunian Raven wrote:
Integrity wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
My opinion:

We move Oher back to RT where he can still be a borderline elite to above-average RT (better than what he is now at LT), and either draft a future LT in the 1st round of this upcoming draft (very deep at OL), or we move KO over there and take the risk there. Either way, I just don't think Oher is an NFL-caliber LT right now.


I wouldn't be opposed to putting Oher back at RT, but not if we're going to put KO at left. Honestly, all you would be doing is taking a bad situation and making it worse. Drafting a LT early and having him compete for the spot would be ideal. If he wins out, then Oher can play RT and KO can play LG. Then all we would need is a center and our OL would be complete. I'm hoping Gradkowski puts on the weight he needs to over the off season and we don't have to use another draft pick there.


Right now I think Oher is the best answer the Ravens have at LT, and Osemele is the next best thing to Oher at RT. So chopping and changing them at this point would probably do more harm than good.

I think Oher needs a steady, reliable presence at LG, because I've seen a few occasions where his attention has been dragged inside, allowing guys to get around the outside. Jah Reid isn't the answer at LG, as far as I can tell. Neither is Bobbie Williams. So if the Ravens draft O-line at all this year, my first choice would be for a Guard who they can plug into the line right away.

Hopefully Gradkowski will be ready to go next year, because Birk is done.

I disagree. I think the solution is to get Oher away from LT. Earlier in the year it truly looked like he was making improvements to his game, but as of late, he's been giving up more and more pressures and has been much less consistent in creating a pocket. He's just not a natural LT, honestly, I don't even think his best position is OT. I think Oher would benefit most from being pushed inside and just being told to "hit something" as opposed to having to worry about all the confusion you see along the edges. Plug him in at LG and I think he'd be an elite LG- especially if he has a center in there that can be right next to him and make sure he understands all the line adjustments being made.

If we're to address the OL, I think our best bet is to go LT with a guy like Eric Fisher and then have Oher/KO/Reid compete for the remaining 2 spots along the OL at LG/RT. Oher is under contract for one more season following this, I see no reason why we can't experiment with his fit. The way I see it, we need a longer player on the edges who doesn't have to try and overcompensate like Oher does. I'd love to see an OL of:
LT- Eric Fisher
LG- Michael Oher
OC- Gino Gradkowski
RG- Marshal Yanda
RT- Kelechi Osemele

With a line like that I'd salivate at the thought of the domination at the LOS. Flacco's blindside would also be in great hands IMO.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
I disagree. I think the solution is to get Oher away from LT. Earlier in the year it truly looked like he was making improvements to his game, but as of late, he's been giving up more and more pressures and has been much less consistent in creating a pocket. He's just not a natural LT, honestly, I don't even think his best position is OT. I think Oher would benefit most from being pushed inside and just being told to "hit something" as opposed to having to worry about all the confusion you see along the edges. Plug him in at LG and I think he'd be an elite LG- especially if he has a center in there that can be right next to him and make sure he understands all the line adjustments being made.

If we're to address the OL, I think our best bet is to go LT with a guy like Eric Fisher and then have Oher/KO/Reid compete for the remaining 2 spots along the OL at LG/RT. Oher is under contract for one more season following this, I see no reason why we can't experiment with his fit. The way I see it, we need a longer player on the edges who doesn't have to try and overcompensate like Oher does. I'd love to see an OL of:
LT- Eric Fisher
LG- Michael Oher
OC- Gino Gradkowski
RG- Marshal Yanda
RT- Kelechi Osemele

With a line like that I'd salivate at the thought of the domination at the LOS. Flacco's blindside would also be in great hands IMO.


I would like to see Oher inside at LG too but I doubt it ever happens. I'm kind of resigned to the thought that he's the LT they're going to stick with for a while unless they find someone they really, really, like in the draft or free agency and shift him back to RT and Osemele to LG. I'd protest something fierce if Osemele ever got moved to LT. Give me Reid there instead and I don't even like him in that spot either.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
I disagree. I think the solution is to get Oher away from LT. Earlier in the year it truly looked like he was making improvements to his game, but as of late, he's been giving up more and more pressures and has been much less consistent in creating a pocket. He's just not a natural LT, honestly, I don't even think his best position is OT. I think Oher would benefit most from being pushed inside and just being told to "hit something" as opposed to having to worry about all the confusion you see along the edges. Plug him in at LG and I think he'd be an elite LG- especially if he has a center in there that can be right next to him and make sure he understands all the line adjustments being made.

If we're to address the OL, I think our best bet is to go LT with a guy like Eric Fisher and then have Oher/KO/Reid compete for the remaining 2 spots along the OL at LG/RT. Oher is under contract for one more season following this, I see no reason why we can't experiment with his fit. The way I see it, we need a longer player on the edges who doesn't have to try and overcompensate like Oher does. I'd love to see an OL of:
LT- Eric Fisher
LG- Michael Oher
OC- Gino Gradkowski
RG- Marshal Yanda
RT- Kelechi Osemele

With a line like that I'd salivate at the thought of the domination at the LOS. Flacco's blindside would also be in great hands IMO.


I would like to see Oher inside at LG too but I doubt it ever happens. I'm kind of resigned to the thought that he's the LT they're going to stick with for a while unless they find someone they really, really, like in the draft or free agency and shift him back to RT and Osemele to LG. I'd protest something fierce if Osemele ever got moved to LT. Give me Reid there instead and I don't even like him in that spot either.

Yeah, neither of those two have the quickness and explosiveness that you look for on the left side. What even makes them OTs is the fact that they have long limbs. KO has good height and elite level length- that makes him dominant when he gets his hands on a defender. But he simply doesn't have the quickness in his set to be a reliable backside blocker.
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StRawz11


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like the Pats wont lose another game in the regular season. Manhandling the Texans right now, even though I expected that
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They play the 49ers next week and I think San Francisco has a better shot at beating New England than Houston on Monday Night Football.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
They play the 49ers next week and I think San Francisco has a better shot at beating New England than Houston on Monday Night Football.

Yeah they have the better secondary. The Texans secondary just hasn't looked very good. Part of that is Brady, but JJoe simply doesn't have the speed he did earlier in the season. And outside of him the Texans don't have the corners that can cover well.

The Texans also don't have as many defensive threats as the 49ers. That and the Texans simply killed themselves with so many missed opportunities and procedural penalties. Just like the Texans aren't 30 points better than the Ravens, the Texans aren't 30 points worse than the Patriots.
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