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So you want Freeman replaced
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BuczNGator5


Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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Location: Dolla$, Texa5
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BucsCanesFan6 wrote:
Freeman played bad today, but still put was in the position to win the game, it's hard to believe that people are crying to replace him after the year he is having in a new system and a beat up OL.
If you believe he is having a good year, you are clearly just looking at his stats. He didn't put is in position to win that game. Mistakes by Philly put us in position to win that game, and he couldn't get the job done. Even the muffed punt where we started at Philly's 5 yard line, he almost failed to get the TD. If it wasn't for an awesome catch by Williams we would've had to settle for 3.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BucsCanesFan6 wrote:
Freeman played bad today, but still put was in the position to win the game, it's hard to believe that people are crying to replace him after the year he is having in a new system and a beat up OL.


He stunk last week as well and played average against Atlanta.
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RoeKG


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BucsCanesFan6 wrote:
Freeman played bad today, but still put was in the position to win the game, it's hard to believe that people are crying to replace him after the year he is having in a new system and a beat up OL.


He was in the position to win the game because of #1) a special teams play that got us to the 6 yard line, #2) a good amount of penalties by the Eagles on the 2nd TD drive that kept it alive, and #3) Doug Martin.

None of it was because of Freeman's play.

And it's not that hard to believe. Many of us said, "Well now Freeman has a running game and a #1 WR, so there are no more excuses." Yet here is another excuse.

At some point it's just Freeman. We're not going to be a good team when the QB can't put together a decent game for weeks in a row, but sometimes gets hot. While that can sound like the Giants, the Giants can actually get hot when they need to win games. Whereas we need wins now more than ever, and we lost to one of the worst teams in the league with a terrible showing from Freeman.

So yes, if this is what we can hope for - because he is a 4th year QB now - then calling for him to be replaced isn't that crazy. I am hopeful that he can improve over time, but I can also be realistic and say that right now he is wildly inconsistent and he really might not change that, no matter how much we want that.

Like I pointed out in the GDT, Freeman was very bad at the beginning of the season, then white hot, and now he's bad again. In those periods, we had a 3 game losing streak, a 4 game winning streak, and a 3 game losing streak. And worse than the actual losing is that we probably could have won half of those games with average QB play.
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manilathrilla1


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
I find it funny that so many still will blame what's around freeman and not freeman for when he plays bad. If he cannot handle pressure he's not amongst the elite nor a qb that is considered up and coming. His physical tools are elite but everything else is well average or below average.

He shows he's "clutch" against bottom feeders. But put him in a game against a good team and he just crumbles. Heck the eagles aren't even good. He was what 41% of his passes today? For under 200 yds ? Against the eagles who are giving up 76% completed passes and 130+ rating?

He had clean pockets today where I actually saw him step into a sack and then continually to overthrow wide open Wrs.

Pathetic for a "franchise qb".


I do agree with you that blame seems to be lopsided when it comes to Freeman. I see a lot of blame thrown solely upon players at all the other positions, but when it comes to Freeman it always has something to do with his WR's or O-Line or play calling, or new system, etc...

That being said I think while he does have his flaws he still gives us the best chance to win. We do need another QB to challenge him.
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tml_gogo


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he gives us the best chance to win right now, but a quarterback needs to be brought in to challenge him, definitely. Nothing motivates an employee more than knowing they need to do well or risk being replaced.
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DaRealdeal


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tml_gogo wrote:
I think he gives us the best chance to win right now, but a quarterback needs to be brought in to challenge him, definitely. Nothing motivates an employee more than knowing they need to do well or risk being replaced.

What QB can you bring in that can legitimately challenge a QB on pace for 30 TDs, 4,000 passing yards and a 1.9% Int percentage (3rd best in the league for QBs with at least 400 attempts)?
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaRealdeal wrote:
tml_gogo wrote:
I think he gives us the best chance to win right now, but a quarterback needs to be brought in to challenge him, definitely. Nothing motivates an employee more than knowing they need to do well or risk being replaced.

What QB can you bring in that can legitimately challenge a QB on pace for 30 TDs, 4,000 passing yards and a 1.9% Int percentage (3rd best in the league for QBs with at least 400 attempts)?


Stats are for losers. Look at tony romo. Means nothing when you crumble wen it matters most against the good teams. The last 3 weeks when the bucs needed him to step up he didn't. He struggled and looked awful.
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DaRealdeal


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
DaRealdeal wrote:
tml_gogo wrote:
I think he gives us the best chance to win right now, but a quarterback needs to be brought in to challenge him, definitely. Nothing motivates an employee more than knowing they need to do well or risk being replaced.

What QB can you bring in that can legitimately challenge a QB on pace for 30 TDs, 4,000 passing yards and a 1.9% Int percentage (3rd best in the league for QBs with at least 400 attempts)?


Stats are for losers. Look at tony romo. Means nothing when you crumble wen it matters most against the good teams. The last 3 weeks when the bucs needed him to step up he didn't. He struggled and looked awful.

Didn't you point to Freeman struggling to complete 40% of his passes against a defense that has been giving up 130+ passer rating and 76% completions a couple posts ago? Yeah...I think what you are trying to say is that stats are for losers when they don't fit your argument.

He has definitely struggled these last 2 weeks, and it's annoying because you can't really blame it on the supporting cast. Not many passes are being dropped and the OLine (outside of the Broncos game) has held up. He has just completely missed simple throws. The inconsistency is frustrating and he definitely has a lot of work to do.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaRealdeal wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
DaRealdeal wrote:
tml_gogo wrote:
I think he gives us the best chance to win right now, but a quarterback needs to be brought in to challenge him, definitely. Nothing motivates an employee more than knowing they need to do well or risk being replaced.

What QB can you bring in that can legitimately challenge a QB on pace for 30 TDs, 4,000 passing yards and a 1.9% Int percentage (3rd best in the league for QBs with at least 400 attempts)?


Stats are for losers. Look at tony romo. Means nothing when you crumble wen it matters most against the good teams. The last 3 weeks when the bucs needed him to step up he didn't. He struggled and looked awful.

Didn't you point to Freeman struggling to complete 40% of his passes against a defense that has been giving up 130+ passer rating and 76% completions a couple posts ago? Yeah...I think what you are trying to say is that stats are for losers when they don't fit your argument.

He has definitely struggled these last 2 weeks, and it's annoying because you can't really blame it on the supporting cast. Not many passes are being dropped and the OLine (outside of the Broncos game) has held up. He has just completely missed simple throws. The inconsistency is frustrating and he definitely has a lot of work to do.


It actually points to your argument. He'll do we'll against poor defenses. But good teams are his weaknesses which doesn't really label u as a franchise qb. I said even during his hot streak he was still struggling in aspects that he needs to work and improve or he"ll be exposed.

It's starting to show and it was on display starting in Atlanta where he played average and missed key throws and has carried over to now. And it's just not accuracy. Even in Carolina he didn't even see guys who were wide open. Dallas Clark in the end zone early in the 4th qtr. prime example of questionable field vision and awareness. Won't get away with that against better teams.
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tml_gogo


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaRealdeal wrote:
tml_gogo wrote:
I think he gives us the best chance to win right now, but a quarterback needs to be brought in to challenge him, definitely. Nothing motivates an employee more than knowing they need to do well or risk being replaced.

What QB can you bring in that can legitimately challenge a QB on pace for 30 TDs, 4,000 passing yards and a 1.9% Int percentage (3rd best in the league for QBs with at least 400 attempts)?


True, maybe an established vet who has won before? I don't know, I just really want Freeman to succeed and be that franchise quarterback we've always wanted. His numbers look good, but man watching him just flat out miss wide open receivers week in and week out that costs us games is annoying.
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DaRealdeal


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tml_gogo wrote:
DaRealdeal wrote:
tml_gogo wrote:
I think he gives us the best chance to win right now, but a quarterback needs to be brought in to challenge him, definitely. Nothing motivates an employee more than knowing they need to do well or risk being replaced.

What QB can you bring in that can legitimately challenge a QB on pace for 30 TDs, 4,000 passing yards and a 1.9% Int percentage (3rd best in the league for QBs with at least 400 attempts)?


True, maybe an established vet who has won before? I don't know, I just really want Freeman to succeed and be that franchise quarterback we've always wanted.

I think that we all do...I think. Sometimes I wonder Laughing
tml_gogo wrote:
His numbers look good, but man watching him just flat out miss wide open receivers week in and week out that costs us games is annoying.

I hear you there. This Sunday especially was excruciating. It's tough because we know what he is capable of. We have seen him make those throws before. With him it seems like if he misses two in a row it snowballs into a 3-10 streak where our offense looks useless. This kind of stuff is all on Freeman. He needs to overcome these bad stretches and get the train back on the tracks.
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tml_gogo


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For arguments stake:

Geno Smith
Matt Barkley
Tyler Wilson
Landry Jones
Tyler Bray
Tajh Boyd
Ryan Nassib
EJ Manual
Zac Dysert
Colin Klein

Anybody see a franchise quarterback there? I don't. They all have their problems. Free agent market looks dry as well.

We have Freeman, for better or worse. He played like garbage yesterday, and the week before, which could have easily been 2 wins with consistent quarterback play, but there's not much we can do to replace him. At least not this year.

2014 Draft Potentials:

Teddy Bridgewater
Aaron Murray
Derek Carr
AJ Mccarron

..etc.

No Luck/RG3 type prospects have shown up yet.
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RoeKG


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tml_gogo wrote:
For arguments stake:

Geno Smith
Matt Barkley
Tyler Wilson
Landry Jones
Tyler Bray
Tajh Boyd
Ryan Nassib
EJ Manual
Zac Dysert
Colin Klein

Anybody see a franchise quarterback there? I don't. They all have their problems. Free agent market looks dry as well.

We have Freeman, for better or worse. He played like garbage yesterday, and the week before, which could have easily been 2 wins with consistent quarterback play, but there's not much we can do to replace him. At least not this year.

2014 Draft Potentials:

Teddy Bridgewater
Aaron Murray
Derek Carr
AJ Mccarron

..etc.

No Luck/RG3 type prospects have shown up yet.


I'll preface my post with saying I don't necessarily think we should be drafting a new QB...

But did anyone think Andy Dalton would be as good as he is? How about Russell Wilson? Even RG3 wasn't this amazing prospect until the last college season progressed, he was a top 10 guy who quickly escalated as the year went on.

We realistically don't need the next Luck anyway, and even if the next Luck came around we wouldn't be able to get him. No matter how bad Freeman plays, we'll still not be drafting high enough to grab the next great QB. But we have the WRs, the OL, the run game to support a QB. Which is why Freeman's play is even more pathetic. He doesn't need to be a superstar - even though he has the potential - for us to simply win games. He just needs to be average. He is either one extreme or the other.

I don't want to necessarily give up on him, but I don't like the road we're on right now.
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tml_gogo


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoeKG wrote:


I'll preface my post with saying I don't necessarily think we should be drafting a new QB...

But did anyone think Andy Dalton would be as good as he is? How about Russell Wilson? Even RG3 wasn't this amazing prospect until the last college season progressed, he was a top 10 guy who quickly escalated as the year went on.

We realistically don't need the next Luck anyway, and even if the next Luck came around we wouldn't be able to get him. No matter how bad Freeman plays, we'll still not be drafting high enough to grab the next great QB. But we have the WRs, the OL, the run game to support a QB. Which is why Freeman's play is even more pathetic. He doesn't need to be a superstar - even though he has the potential - for us to simply win games. He just needs to be average. He is either one extreme or the other.

I don't want to necessarily give up on him, but I don't like the road we're on right now.


Oh no don't get me wrong, I was not trying to say we should draft a quarterback or anything, just playing devil's advocate. I'm sure there will someone who emerges as an elite prospect for both drafts in the coming months for the 2013 guys and next season for the 2014 guys, but the point is, as of right now and the immediate future, Freeman isn't going anywhere.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We know Freeman will not be replaced this off-season. But What I'm getting at: In no way does he deserve a long term extension because he hasn't earned it with his play on the field.

Lets look at these numbers against Opponents considered contenders this year:
Week Date Opp Comp Att % Yds Y/A TD Int -

-2 Sep 16 @NYG 15 28 53.6% 243 8.7 2 2
-3 Sep 23 @DAL 10 28 35.7% 110 3.9 1 1
-4 Sep 30 WAS 24 39 61.5 299 7.7 1 1
-12 Nov 25 ATL 19 30 63.3 256 8.5 0 0
-13 Dec 2 @DEN 18 39 46.2 242 6.2 2 1

Then there was Philly, who everyone was padding their Passing statistics against.

It's not only that. Freeman has missed throws to wide open WRs, failed to see the open WR and might be the darn luckiest QB in the league because he had a lot of dropped INTs that defenders didn't make. For example: Assante Samuel: if he wasn't hurt, he woulda had 2 easy ones right in his hands. You can tell he was injured because he doesn't drop easy picks.
-Denver: Shoulda thrown 3 in that one. 1 was dropped, 1 was called back because of a stupid roughing the passer penalty.
- Probably had about 5 balls that shoulda been picked, but Phillys defense has been so bad, Free again got lucky.

His field awareness and accuracy has always been a question mark, even dating back to his days at Kansas State. 4 years in the NFL and it's still an issue. He's been exposed the last few weeks, and one can make the argument that it started in Carolina. Defenses just have to read his eyes because they don't move from where he looks first.

We won't be able to replace Freeman this off-season. No. But We should not commit to him long=term either. Make him earn that contract on the field.

I hate to say hit, but his lack of awareness and inaccuracy and erratic play is reminding me more and more of Jason Campbell.
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