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khodder
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 47898
Location: New New York
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 Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| DirtyDez wrote: | | khodder wrote: | | DirtyDez wrote: | | You're trying to pick n' choose who should be held accountable. It doesn't work like that when our franchise hasn't been below average for the last decade plus. |
I am not trying to pick and choose anything what is the first thing I mention in here
I mention the benefits of Rod Graves are enough to keep him around for a while, possibly promoted into a "executive" role where he can deal with everything he does best and pass on the drafting voice and the scouting stuff et al to Steve Keim. |
I thought you've been calling for Rod's head the last couple years... |
I don't like him influencing our draft processes, but he holds too much value in terms of contracts and player personnel to just promote Keim into the role cold.
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Cusi10
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 362
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| khodder wrote: | Chip Kelly
Dave Toub
Jay Gruden
Rick Dennison
Bruce Arians (Though this could be a slippery slope)
Kyle Shannahan
Winston Moss
Greg Roman |
why do u say arians could be a slippery slope? |
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khodder
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 47898
Location: New New York
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| Cusi10 wrote: | | khodder wrote: | Chip Kelly
Dave Toub
Jay Gruden
Rick Dennison
Bruce Arians (Though this could be a slippery slope)
Kyle Shannahan
Winston Moss
Greg Roman |
why do u say arians could be a slippery slope? |
He is cut from the same cloth as Ken Whisenhunt. The two of them have worked together extensively and the players may see it as such.
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DirtyDez
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
Posts: 9626
Location: the Arizona desert
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:03 am Post subject: |
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We aren't paying Whiz to go away and then hire Chip for 7-8M. We will get Horton or Haley for a bottom salary for HC's IMO. I think Chip is bound for a bigger market team like Philly who can pay top dollar.
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DJ_Fka
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 3280
Location: Brisvegas, Land Down Under
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:50 am Post subject: |
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Oregon has Nike money
We do not.
Philly has money and they have to compete against Dallas, Skins and Giants, they need to win more than we do, if that makes sense.
Kelly is going somewhere if they give him the keys to the whole show, Philly might not do that.
Oakland might though, what about SD? |
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nicfre2011
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 5302
Location: SC
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:49 am Post subject: |
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Hey guys, as a Chiefs fan I am all to familiar with looking into potential head coaching candidates. Personally, I really like Ray Horton as a candidate. What I am wondering, and not to hijack the thread, but what would there be to lose at this point by firing Whisenhunt and having Horton serve as the interim head coach for the rest of the season?
That way you have an opportunity to see how Horton handles the responsibility. If the team gets a spark and closes out the season on a strong note, then that can help to validate the option of hiring Horton to a long term deal.
I just don't know what there is to gain by keeping Whisenhunt as HC at this point in time.
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 52947
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| nicfre2011 wrote: | Hey guys, as a Chiefs fan I am all to familiar with looking into potential head coaching candidates. Personally, I really like Ray Horton as a candidate. What I am wondering, and not to hijack the thread, but what would there be to lose at this point by firing Whisenhunt and having Horton serve as the interim head coach for the rest of the season?
That way you have an opportunity to see how Horton handles the responsibility. If the team gets a spark and closes out the season on a strong note, then that can help to validate the option of hiring Horton to a long term deal.
I just don't know what there is to gain by keeping Whisenhunt as HC at this point in time. |
Bolded: And yet, none of those interim type guys have ever worked long term. Too many examples to even name.
There really is nothing to gain from it. I personally think it might be bad for Ray to try and be in charge of this train wreck. The effort isn't going to be there when the players know the season is a lost cause and the coaching staff will have 1 eye on the field and the other on the coaching possibilities of 2013. Should just let him start fresh next year, should he get the job of course.
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 52947
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| apollo14000 wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | Boise&cards Fan wrote: | At the end of the day my top 3 are
Ray horton
My top choice.
Bruce Arians OC of Indianapolis
Love what he doing with Luck and he filling in right now for the HC. All so like what he did with Big Ben.
Jay Gruden OC of Cincinnati
I like the offense and what he doing. |
What I really like about Gruden is, in all 100% honesty, Andy Dalton really isn't any good. He's actually a totally sub-par player when I watch him play and I've seen 3 Cincy games just this year. Gruden has somehow worked through that (AJ Green helps..) and I give him major props for it. |
This is exactly what I came here to say. Gruden has worked with an average to above average QB and produced on the field the way Whiz hasn't. I personally think Whiz's offensive scheme is very dated and predictable. I can watch one of our games and guess whether we run or pass 4 out 5 times. No joke. I imagine other teams can do that as well when they look at our film.
stchamp- would you feel good about a Barkley and Jay Gruden pairing? |
I would like that very much actually, just not in round 1. Not when we're staring 4-5 overall in the face. If we could pick up Joeckel in round and then pick up Barkley in round 2, maybe even back at the end of the round 1 with Gruden at the helm, I'd be pretty confident in our offensive possibilities for 2013. All speculatory of course but ya, I could see that being a nice start.
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
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Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| DirtyDez wrote: | | younggun1273 wrote: | | HighMotorGuy wrote: | | DirtyDez wrote: | | You think a longterm HC will be hired before a GM? I doubt it unless it's a someone close with MB like Haley or maybe Horton... |
Would anyone else here be sad if Graves does not get fired? How the hell does a GM survive with this many fired coaches? |
I actually do not want to see Graves get fired. His drafts have been good but both Dennis Green and Whisenhunt cannot develop a QB. Can't win if you cannot get anything out of your QBs. |
He has little to do with drafts. He doesn't even watch film.... |
Interesting you bring this up. My wife had bought this book called "Next Man Up" a while ago and I just now got around to reading it. It's a writer who basically spends every day with the Baltimore Ravens for a full season. In this book the author, John Feinstein, quotes Ozzie Newsome directly as saying he doesn't watch much film of college prospects and relied mostly on his director of college scouting, who at that time was Phil Savage. Good book if anyone wants to try it out.
Ozzie's considered the best GM in the game but Rod Graves does it and he's an idiot. I find that interesting.
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DDOCKETT90
Joined: 25 Mar 2011
Posts: 697
Location: GILBERT, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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I know you said not to say him but how high is horton on the list for coaches?
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 52947
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| DDOCKETT90 wrote: | | I know you said not to say him but how high is horton on the list for coaches? |
Definitely in my top 3, that's for sure.
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DJ_Fka
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 3280
Location: Brisvegas, Land Down Under
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| stchamp98 wrote: | | DirtyDez wrote: | | younggun1273 wrote: | | HighMotorGuy wrote: | | DirtyDez wrote: | | You think a longterm HC will be hired before a GM? I doubt it unless it's a someone close with MB like Haley or maybe Horton... |
Would anyone else here be sad if Graves does not get fired? How the hell does a GM survive with this many fired coaches? |
I actually do not want to see Graves get fired. His drafts have been good but both Dennis Green and Whisenhunt cannot develop a QB. Can't win if you cannot get anything out of your QBs. |
He has little to do with drafts. He doesn't even watch film.... |
Interesting you bring this up. My wife had bought this book called "Next Man Up" a while ago and I just now got around to reading it. It's a writer who basically spends every day with the Baltimore Ravens for a full season. In this book the author, John Feinstein, quotes Ozzie Newsome directly as saying he doesn't watch much film of college prospects and relied mostly on his director of college scouting, who at that time was Phil Savage. Good book if anyone wants to try it out.
Ozzie's considered the best GM in the game but Rod Graves does it and he's an idiot. I find that interesting. |
The more you know the more of a critic/idiot you can be.
I thought Ozzie watched lots of tape, hence the good picks, how do we get Mr Savage in Cardinal Red then? |
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 52947
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| DJ_Fka wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | DirtyDez wrote: | | younggun1273 wrote: | | HighMotorGuy wrote: | | DirtyDez wrote: | | You think a longterm HC will be hired before a GM? I doubt it unless it's a someone close with MB like Haley or maybe Horton... |
Would anyone else here be sad if Graves does not get fired? How the hell does a GM survive with this many fired coaches? |
I actually do not want to see Graves get fired. His drafts have been good but both Dennis Green and Whisenhunt cannot develop a QB. Can't win if you cannot get anything out of your QBs. |
He has little to do with drafts. He doesn't even watch film.... |
Interesting you bring this up. My wife had bought this book called "Next Man Up" a while ago and I just now got around to reading it. It's a writer who basically spends every day with the Baltimore Ravens for a full season. In this book the author, John Feinstein, quotes Ozzie Newsome directly as saying he doesn't watch much film of college prospects and relied mostly on his director of college scouting, who at that time was Phil Savage. Good book if anyone wants to try it out.
Ozzie's considered the best GM in the game but Rod Graves does it and he's an idiot. I find that interesting. |
The more you know the more of a critic/idiot you can be.
I thought Ozzie watched lots of tape, hence the good picks, how do we get Mr Savage in Cardinal Red then? |
Being a GM isn't any different than being a HC. It's all about who you surround yourself with.
I'd rather have Steve Keim.
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khodder
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 47898
Location: New New York
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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To be honest very few GM's actually watch extensive amounts of tape. That tape watching is done by the College Scouting director and the Area and Region scouts.
I would hazard a guess that GM's would probably watch tape on the top 15 or so guys on their board. Guys they really think they have a shot at in the top 2 rounds. The GM has far too many other responsibilities to sit themselves down and watch enough tape on a prospect to form an informed opinion.
There is a reason teams hire area scouts and regional scouts and college scouting directors. That is what they do, they watch film, they scout, they cross reference, they talk to coaches, they form their opinions and pass that up the chain.
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DDOCKETT90
Joined: 25 Mar 2011
Posts: 697
Location: GILBERT, AZ
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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I saw someone say maybe pete carmichael what about him?
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