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Jake Long out for the season.
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Alameda, Ca
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ProudDolphan47 wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
I may be alone, but I think we should not be so quick to quit on Long. No doubt he has been a shadow of himself as of late, but he has been injured, and he has been picking up a different system of blocking. The guy has played at a HOF level previously, and he's not too old to be expected to return to that form. Clearly, we can't spend on him like a franchise QB, but if he is at all reasonable about contract demands, then I'd prefer to see if he can overcome a poor season.

As for getting first round trade value for him, well, I'd be surprised. As SUG said, I don't think its going to be easy to wrestle first rounders away from teams. Certainly not as easy as it was before. First rounders are better prepared in many cases, then they were before, and the salaries have dropped since the new CBA making 1st rounders solid deals, and guys expected to immediately contribute.


This response goes out to both you and Doc here Merc. Long was a stud for 2 years. 2. His rookie year was unreal, and 2009 was even better. 2010 was worse than 2008. 2011 was worse than 2010. And now 2012 is worse than 2011. Throw in the injury factor, and I don't think Jake Long will be any closer to Anthony Munoz when it's all said and done than he will be to Tony Boselli. Boselli was unreal. And then injuries happened. Jake has had a bad wheel and now multiple upper body injuries. Those, for a lineman, will stack up. And he's still young. Not good.

As far as comp. picks go...to clarify to SUG, comp picks aren't doled out until the next offseason. So losing Long would result in a 2014 3rd round pick.


Thanks for the info PD.
Wow !
Now I really feel like we screwed the pooch even worse !

Ughh ... Sad

Talk about lack of vision ..

sug
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WaterBear56


Joined: 26 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Garner played RT last week really well but I'd like to see him play RG and move Jerry to RT. Jerry is well liked by the staff, I think he could pull off the same level of play that Martin had this year and could stay there if he continues to lose weight.
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carlos2104


Joined: 25 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WaterBear56 wrote:
Garner played RT last week really well but I'd like to see him play RG and move Jerry to RT. Jerry is well liked by the staff, I think he could pull off the same level of play that Martin had this year and could stay there if he continues to lose weight.
I don't think Jerry should be on a pro roster
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ericsvibe


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the options are.

1. Resign Long to a multiyear deal, IF he accepts a reduction in pay. I'm thinking about 9 Mil a year average, 4 years Max.
Pro's, if Long returns to form, he continues to anchor LT at a reduced price for the next 4 years.
Con's, if his play stays the same, he will wind up an overpriced RT. Again this may not be a bad thing long term for the team, remember we gave Carey about that much to play RT, and he couldn't hold a candle to Long.

2. Franchise Tag Long at 15 Mil next year, see if he improves.
Pro's, this allows the phins time to judge him 2 years into the new system, without a long term commitment. If he doesnt improve, he walks in 2014.
Con's, if Long returns to a HOF level, the phins loose any leverage they have in contract nogotiations, meaning Long could go to another team willing to pay 12 to 14 Mil a year average.

3. Let Long walk, and sign with the Jets when Tony Sparano is named their new head coach next year. Laughing
Pro's, the phins save a ton against the salary cap, and can use the money in free agency.
Con's, Long more than likely will end up playing in the AFC East.

I'd go with option 1 if I'm Ireland. If Long doesn't return to form, he will still wind up being a great RT.
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dolphinologist


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 5593
Location: New York
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ericsvibe wrote:
So the options are.

1. Resign Long to a multiyear deal, IF he accepts a reduction in pay. I'm thinking about 9 Mil a year average, 4 years Max.
Pro's, if Long returns to form, he continues to anchor LT at a reduced price for the next 4 years.
Con's, if his play stays the same, he will wind up an overpriced RT. Again this may not be a bad thing long term for the team, remember we gave Carey about that much to play RT, and he couldn't hold a candle to Long.

2. Franchise Tag Long at 15 Mil next year, see if he improves.
Pro's, this allows the phins time to judge him 2 years into the new system, without a long term commitment. If he doesnt improve, he walks in 2014.
Con's, if Long returns to a HOF level, the phins loose any leverage they have in contract nogotiations, meaning Long could go to another team willing to pay 12 to 14 Mil a year average.

3. Let Long walk, and sign with the Jets when Tony Sparano is named their new head coach next year. Laughing
Pro's, the phins save a ton against the salary cap, and can use the money in free agency.
Con's, Long more than likely will end up playing in the AFC East.

I'd go with option 1 if I'm Ireland. If Long doesn't return to form, he will still wind up being a great RT.


All Those options (even the ones where Long walks) are weighted against letting him go.

You actually used the term "continues to anchor". Now unless the definition of "anchor" has been changed and now means play at a below average level, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree.

There's a scenario where we let this Jake Long go, and use his salary slot to address multiple positions. While J.Martin plays RT .... We can pick up the Guard from Buffalo and move .... I feel a mock coming .... I gotta go. I definitely feel a mock coming.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ProudDolphan47 wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
I may be alone, but I think we should not be so quick to quit on Long. No doubt he has been a shadow of himself as of late, but he has been injured, and he has been picking up a different system of blocking. The guy has played at a HOF level previously, and he's not too old to be expected to return to that form. Clearly, we can't spend on him like a franchise QB, but if he is at all reasonable about contract demands, then I'd prefer to see if he can overcome a poor season.

As for getting first round trade value for him, well, I'd be surprised. As SUG said, I don't think its going to be easy to wrestle first rounders away from teams. Certainly not as easy as it was before. First rounders are better prepared in many cases, then they were before, and the salaries have dropped since the new CBA making 1st rounders solid deals, and guys expected to immediately contribute.


This response goes out to both you and Doc here Merc. Long was a stud for 2 years. 2. His rookie year was unreal, and 2009 was even better. 2010 was worse than 2008. 2011 was worse than 2010. And now 2012 is worse than 2011. Throw in the injury factor, and I don't think Jake Long will be any closer to Anthony Munoz when it's all said and done than he will be to Tony Boselli. Boselli was unreal. And then injuries happened. Jake has had a bad wheel and now multiple upper body injuries. Those, for a lineman, will stack up. And he's still young. Not good.

As far as comp. picks go...to clarify to SUG, comp picks aren't doled out until the next offseason. So losing Long would result in a 2014 3rd round pick.



Your definition and my definition of a bad season must be entirely different. Yes, no doubt about it, Long played his best ball the two seasons you mentioned. The "poor seasons" you mentioned earned him probowl births. He may not have been top 2 in the league, but he was top 5. This year, there was a major fall off. No doubt about that. Then again, he played in a ZBS which he has never ever done before. The ZBS requires more team work, than a standard blocking scheme and so considering who a lineman lines up next too is entirely fair and in fact prudent when looking at production. Jake Long has been next to Richie Incognito who has been pretty awful for much of the year. Throw in the injuries and I don't think its crazy to see why Long is having his only "bad" season as a pro. Beyond that, if you really look at the games, Long only had one awful game this year. That was against Indy. After that, his games have been mediocre for the most part. His Arizona game was probably the next worst game for him, but other than those two he has been decent.

Now, if I thought he wouldn't improve then I would say keeping him would be a mistake. I also don't believe we can break the bank for him. Not even close. However, seeing if he would take a fair salary for his play, and believing in his ability to improve and bounce back seems appropriate to me. Then again, I do realize I am in the minority here.
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ericsvibe wrote:
So the options are.

1. Resign Long to a multiyear deal, IF he accepts a reduction in pay. I'm thinking about 9 Mil a year average, 4 years Max.
Pro's, if Long returns to form, he continues to anchor LT at a reduced price for the next 4 years.
Con's, if his play stays the same, he will wind up an overpriced RT. Again this may not be a bad thing long term for the team, remember we gave Carey about that much to play RT, and he couldn't hold a candle to Long.

2. Franchise Tag Long at 15 Mil next year, see if he improves.
Pro's, this allows the phins time to judge him 2 years into the new system, without a long term commitment. If he doesnt improve, he walks in 2014.
Con's, if Long returns to a HOF level, the phins loose any leverage they have in contract nogotiations, meaning Long could go to another team willing to pay 12 to 14 Mil a year average.

3. Let Long walk, and sign with the Jets when Tony Sparano is named their new head coach next year. Laughing
Pro's, the phins save a ton against the salary cap, and can use the money in free agency.
Con's, Long more than likely will end up playing in the AFC East.

I'd go with option 1 if I'm Ireland. If Long doesn't return to form, he will still wind up being a great RT.


Uhmm .... I would love nothing better than for Jake Long to sign with the nyjerks ...
Especially if Sporano is named the HC.

Dear Santa ... Idea

Seriously IF JL does stay it's at a 40% discount as either a RT or an OG.
I'm no expert but it seems to me he would make a good OG.

sug
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dolphan9954


Joined: 22 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SUG wrote:
ericsvibe wrote:
So the options are.

1. Resign Long to a multiyear deal, IF he accepts a reduction in pay. I'm thinking about 9 Mil a year average, 4 years Max.
Pro's, if Long returns to form, he continues to anchor LT at a reduced price for the next 4 years.
Con's, if his play stays the same, he will wind up an overpriced RT. Again this may not be a bad thing long term for the team, remember we gave Carey about that much to play RT, and he couldn't hold a candle to Long.

2. Franchise Tag Long at 15 Mil next year, see if he improves.
Pro's, this allows the phins time to judge him 2 years into the new system, without a long term commitment. If he doesnt improve, he walks in 2014.
Con's, if Long returns to a HOF level, the phins loose any leverage they have in contract nogotiations, meaning Long could go to another team willing to pay 12 to 14 Mil a year average.

3. Let Long walk, and sign with the Jets when Tony Sparano is named their new head coach next year. Laughing
Pro's, the phins save a ton against the salary cap, and can use the money in free agency.
Con's, Long more than likely will end up playing in the AFC East.

I'd go with option 1 if I'm Ireland. If Long doesn't return to form, he will still wind up being a great RT.


Uhmm .... I would love nothing better than for Jake Long to sign with the nyjerks ...
Especially if Sporano is named the HC.

Dear Santa ... Idea

Seriously IF JL does stay it's at a 40% discount as either a RT or an OG.
I'm no expert but it seems to me he would make a good OG.

sug


Jake Long is a LT at worst a RT.
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Pierrot35


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

freak_of_nature wrote:
ProudDolphan47 wrote:


So losing Long would result in a 2014 3rd round pick.


Depending on our total net result in free agency. If we signed Mike Wallace, and let Long walk, we might get no comp pick.


Let us say you go about the off season this particular way:

1) Franchise S. Smith.

2) Sign C. Clemons & B. Hartline.

3) Let J. Long, R. Starks, R. Bush, T. McDaniel, A. Fasano, M. Moore, N. Garner go

Firstly in my estimation you would have around 40M left over in cap space (S. Smith at 9,5M cap hit, Clemons at 3.5M cap hit & Hartline at 5M cap hit).

Now let us say we sign 3 major free agents (total 24M cap space) we might be lucky to have a 5th or 6th rounder or both in compensation picks depending of course on the type of money given to Long, Starks, Bush, Fasano & Moore in particular.

However we would still be in a terrific position to build the team up with the 2013 draft and also the money left over in cap space to sign Jones, Pouncey, Soliai & Misi to contract extensions.

This is how I would go about it, but unfortunately Miami never ever does what I deem the best way to go about building the team. It has come to a point where I can only watch the draft and the offsesason provided I have renewed my anti-depressant prescription months ahead of time (joke!)
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pope137


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we need to be in the bussiness of stockpiling talent by retaining it and drafting it
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carlos2104


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pope137 wrote:
we need to be in the bussiness of stockpiling talent by retaining it and drafting it
Nah, it's much more fun to trade it all away.


Edit: I'm starting to get on board with unloading Long. I'm just referring to every time we have a regime change, we unload our best players for draft picks that don't pan out.
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