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Nnivolcm


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 7771
Location: Montana
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whiffleballtony wrote:
Overall I like the mock and understand the theory behind it but I have some concerns.

Moore as a sole backup concerns me, more so with two rookie lineman starting.

I would assume that Nagy would beat out Raiola as a starter.

Two rookies starting at DE concerns me as well. This is made worse by the depth being Ronnel Lewis and Young.

No fourth DT? Palmer starting at LB?

Best returning kicks?


As I told TL, Moore wouldn't be the only backup QB. We would get another cheap FA who likely wouldn't set the world on fire. Same with the fourth DT. I was just to lazy and tired to look up upcoming free agents at 4am.

Palmer would begin the year starting at LBer, as he has started for us in the past and done reasonably well, especially against the run. The one concern is his pass defense, and we have some quality depth behind him, so perhaps one of them will step up if he is a liability.

In this mock, Best is fully cleared to return to football. Having him return kicks both utilized his talents and limits his touches imo. He will only touch the ball a handful of times per game and most of them will be fair catches and kneel downs.

Thanks for the feed back. Surprised
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Nnivolcm


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
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Location: Montana
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
I like this mock a great deal.

It's unfortunate the Lions are in cap trouble but this mock recognizes that reality. The sad truth is the Lions need to find a way to cut ties with a number of high earning players and replace them with cheaper talent. The best way to do that is through the draft as you have demonstrated.

The reason I prefer replacing talent with rookies is because most of them offer potential. Experienced players that come cheap are cheap for a reason.

I love the additions of Montgomery and Carradine. I think both will have good pro careers. Their additions keep the dline the strength of the team. With the addition of Elem and Lester the Lions defence would potentially improve dramatically.

Don't know much about Worford but I will never complain about any mock adding linemen with potential.

The remainder I don't know a great deal about.

I think you did a good job with this one. My only complaint is the move to L.A.

I would have to live in my car because unlike Detroit, L.A. isn't just an 8 hour drive.

Laughing good job.


Thanks for the feedback, yeah the move to LA is mostly just a way of saying how frustrated I am with the current situation we are in where every call goes against us because of our reputation.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 25771
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Nnivolcm: the entire thing was sarcastic, including (and especially) my awesome use of contradicting green coloring. (Aside from the Bears' ST coord being known for his personnel alone.)

Interesting mock. I enjoyed reading it, and I'm not against most of the serious things you did. Great effort and presentation.
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ironduke


Joined: 07 Aug 2011
Posts: 595
Location: Detroit Lions HQ
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couple points.

1. Best and Spievey are pretty much done, but why would Scheffler retire over concussions?
2. No way are they going to cut Shaun Hill unless a new OC and offense comes in.
3. Vanden Bosch isn't going anywhere. From what I have read, the cap hit would be worse if he was cut.
4. Corey Williams has publicly stated he will take whatever the lions offer next year. If healthy, he would be a great 4th DT at the vet minimum.
5. Moving the team to L.A. is a terrible idea to mock. Most fans would be like "Screw this organization" if they left Detroit.
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Nnivolcm


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 7771
Location: Montana
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ironduke wrote:
Couple points.

1. Best and Spievey are pretty much done, but why would Scheffler retire over concussions?
2. No way are they going to cut Shaun Hill unless a new OC and offense comes in.
3. Vanden Bosch isn't going anywhere. From what I have read, the cap hit would be worse if he was cut.
4. Corey Williams has publicly stated he will take whatever the lions offer next year. If healthy, he would be a great 4th DT at the vet minimum.
5. Moving the team to L.A. is a terrible idea to mock. Most fans would be like "Screw this organization" if they left Detroit.


1. Scheffler has had several concussions over the past few years, and I started writing this mock right after the game were he left early in the game after looking wobbly on his feet only to return. That is similar to what Speivey did during the playoffs and it ended up costing him.

2. Shaun Hill is making a lot of money for a backup QB. I tried to do everything I could to make cap room because I believe that is the situation the Lions will be facing this offseason.

3. I dont think the cap hit will be worse if KVB is cut, it just wont be that much of a relief. Also, if his play continues to decline at this rate he won't be worth the vet minimum next year imo. I just think he is done and it is time to move on from him.

4. That would be fantastic, but I hadn't heard that. Got a link?

5. As I've stated, that was just a way of expressing my frustration with the situations we find ourselves in week in and week out with every call going against us because of our reputation. I thought the new team name made that kinda clear.
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ironduke


Joined: 07 Aug 2011
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Location: Detroit Lions HQ
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nnivolcm wrote:
ironduke wrote:
Couple points.

1. Best and Spievey are pretty much done, but why would Scheffler retire over concussions?
2. No way are they going to cut Shaun Hill unless a new OC and offense comes in.
3. Vanden Bosch isn't going anywhere. From what I have read, the cap hit would be worse if he was cut.
4. Corey Williams has publicly stated he will take whatever the lions offer next year. If healthy, he would be a great 4th DT at the vet minimum.
5. Moving the team to L.A. is a terrible idea to mock. Most fans would be like "Screw this organization" if they left Detroit.


1. Scheffler has had several concussions over the past few years, and I started writing this mock right after the game were he left early in the game after looking wobbly on his feet only to return. That is similar to what Speivey did during the playoffs and it ended up costing him.

2. Shaun Hill is making a lot of money for a backup QB. I tried to do everything I could to make cap room because I believe that is the situation the Lions will be facing this offseason.

3. I dont think the cap hit will be worse if KVB is cut, it just wont be that much of a relief. Also, if his play continues to decline at this rate he won't be worth the vet minimum next year imo. I just think he is done and it is time to move on from him.

4. That would be fantastic, but I hadn't heard that. Got a link?

5. As I've stated, that was just a way of expressing my frustration with the situations we find ourselves in week in and week out with every call going against us because of our reputation. I thought the new team name made that kinda clear.


KVB is due over 8 million in bonus money. If he is gone, it all hits the cap next year.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/kyle-vanden-bosch/

http://www.freep.com/article/20121206/SPORTS01/121206071/detroit-lions-corey-williams
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DrRay11


Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 3285
Location: Chicago, IL
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ironduke wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
ironduke wrote:
Couple points.

1. Best and Spievey are pretty much done, but why would Scheffler retire over concussions?
2. No way are they going to cut Shaun Hill unless a new OC and offense comes in.
3. Vanden Bosch isn't going anywhere. From what I have read, the cap hit would be worse if he was cut.
4. Corey Williams has publicly stated he will take whatever the lions offer next year. If healthy, he would be a great 4th DT at the vet minimum.
5. Moving the team to L.A. is a terrible idea to mock. Most fans would be like "Screw this organization" if they left Detroit.


1. Scheffler has had several concussions over the past few years, and I started writing this mock right after the game were he left early in the game after looking wobbly on his feet only to return. That is similar to what Speivey did during the playoffs and it ended up costing him.

2. Shaun Hill is making a lot of money for a backup QB. I tried to do everything I could to make cap room because I believe that is the situation the Lions will be facing this offseason.

3. I dont think the cap hit will be worse if KVB is cut, it just wont be that much of a relief. Also, if his play continues to decline at this rate he won't be worth the vet minimum next year imo. I just think he is done and it is time to move on from him.

4. That would be fantastic, but I hadn't heard that. Got a link?

5. As I've stated, that was just a way of expressing my frustration with the situations we find ourselves in week in and week out with every call going against us because of our reputation. I thought the new team name made that kinda clear.


KVB is due over 8 million in bonus money. If he is gone, it all hits the cap next year.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/kyle-vanden-bosch/

http://www.freep.com/article/20121206/SPORTS01/121206071/detroit-lions-corey-williams


Depending on whose numbers you're looking at, it looks like cutting KVB saves anywhere from 2.5-5 million from next year's cap hit.
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Nnivolcm


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
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Location: Montana
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ironduke wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
ironduke wrote:
Couple points.

1. Best and Spievey are pretty much done, but why would Scheffler retire over concussions?
2. No way are they going to cut Shaun Hill unless a new OC and offense comes in.
3. Vanden Bosch isn't going anywhere. From what I have read, the cap hit would be worse if he was cut.
4. Corey Williams has publicly stated he will take whatever the lions offer next year. If healthy, he would be a great 4th DT at the vet minimum.
5. Moving the team to L.A. is a terrible idea to mock. Most fans would be like "Screw this organization" if they left Detroit.


1. Scheffler has had several concussions over the past few years, and I started writing this mock right after the game were he left early in the game after looking wobbly on his feet only to return. That is similar to what Speivey did during the playoffs and it ended up costing him.

2. Shaun Hill is making a lot of money for a backup QB. I tried to do everything I could to make cap room because I believe that is the situation the Lions will be facing this offseason.

3. I dont think the cap hit will be worse if KVB is cut, it just wont be that much of a relief. Also, if his play continues to decline at this rate he won't be worth the vet minimum next year imo. I just think he is done and it is time to move on from him.

4. That would be fantastic, but I hadn't heard that. Got a link?

5. As I've stated, that was just a way of expressing my frustration with the situations we find ourselves in week in and week out with every call going against us because of our reputation. I thought the new team name made that kinda clear.


KVB is due over 8 million in bonus money. If he is gone, it all hits the cap next year.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/kyle-vanden-bosch/

http://www.freep.com/article/20121206/SPORTS01/121206071/detroit-lions-corey-williams


I still think KVB shouldn't be on the roster next year based on his play this year and how I expect he would play next year. I would rather take the cap hit and have the roster spot for someone with potential.

I read the article on Williams, and while it looks like he wants to stay here I didn't see anything about willing to play for a discount let alone the vet minimum.
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stylish313


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 15019
Location: Flat Rock, Mi
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrRay11 wrote:
ironduke wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
ironduke wrote:
Couple points.

1. Best and Spievey are pretty much done, but why would Scheffler retire over concussions?
2. No way are they going to cut Shaun Hill unless a new OC and offense comes in.
3. Vanden Bosch isn't going anywhere. From what I have read, the cap hit would be worse if he was cut.
4. Corey Williams has publicly stated he will take whatever the lions offer next year. If healthy, he would be a great 4th DT at the vet minimum.
5. Moving the team to L.A. is a terrible idea to mock. Most fans would be like "Screw this organization" if they left Detroit.


1. Scheffler has had several concussions over the past few years, and I started writing this mock right after the game were he left early in the game after looking wobbly on his feet only to return. That is similar to what Speivey did during the playoffs and it ended up costing him.

2. Shaun Hill is making a lot of money for a backup QB. I tried to do everything I could to make cap room because I believe that is the situation the Lions will be facing this offseason.

3. I dont think the cap hit will be worse if KVB is cut, it just wont be that much of a relief. Also, if his play continues to decline at this rate he won't be worth the vet minimum next year imo. I just think he is done and it is time to move on from him.

4. That would be fantastic, but I hadn't heard that. Got a link?

5. As I've stated, that was just a way of expressing my frustration with the situations we find ourselves in week in and week out with every call going against us because of our reputation. I thought the new team name made that kinda clear.


KVB is due over 8 million in bonus money. If he is gone, it all hits the cap next year.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/kyle-vanden-bosch/

http://www.freep.com/article/20121206/SPORTS01/121206071/detroit-lions-corey-williams


Depending on whose numbers you're looking at, it looks like cutting KVB saves anywhere from 2.5-5 million from next year's cap hit.
I like using spotrac and thenetrat. Using either of those two sites, the Lions would save $5M in salary. The difference is in the cap hit, which I don't believe thenetrat has updated yet after KVB's restructure.

After cutting KVB, his cap hit will still be around $5.6M; which is a lot better than paying $10.6M for what he provides.
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DrRay11


Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 3285
Location: Chicago, IL
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
DrRay11 wrote:
ironduke wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
ironduke wrote:
Couple points.

1. Best and Spievey are pretty much done, but why would Scheffler retire over concussions?
2. No way are they going to cut Shaun Hill unless a new OC and offense comes in.
3. Vanden Bosch isn't going anywhere. From what I have read, the cap hit would be worse if he was cut.
4. Corey Williams has publicly stated he will take whatever the lions offer next year. If healthy, he would be a great 4th DT at the vet minimum.
5. Moving the team to L.A. is a terrible idea to mock. Most fans would be like "Screw this organization" if they left Detroit.


1. Scheffler has had several concussions over the past few years, and I started writing this mock right after the game were he left early in the game after looking wobbly on his feet only to return. That is similar to what Speivey did during the playoffs and it ended up costing him.

2. Shaun Hill is making a lot of money for a backup QB. I tried to do everything I could to make cap room because I believe that is the situation the Lions will be facing this offseason.

3. I dont think the cap hit will be worse if KVB is cut, it just wont be that much of a relief. Also, if his play continues to decline at this rate he won't be worth the vet minimum next year imo. I just think he is done and it is time to move on from him.

4. That would be fantastic, but I hadn't heard that. Got a link?

5. As I've stated, that was just a way of expressing my frustration with the situations we find ourselves in week in and week out with every call going against us because of our reputation. I thought the new team name made that kinda clear.


KVB is due over 8 million in bonus money. If he is gone, it all hits the cap next year.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/kyle-vanden-bosch/

http://www.freep.com/article/20121206/SPORTS01/121206071/detroit-lions-corey-williams


Depending on whose numbers you're looking at, it looks like cutting KVB saves anywhere from 2.5-5 million from next year's cap hit.
I like using spotrac and thenetrat. Using either of those two sites, the Lions would save $5M in salary. The difference is in the cap hit, which I don't believe thenetrat has updated yet after KVB's restructure.

After cutting KVB, his cap hit will still be around $5.6M; which is a lot better than paying $10.6M for what he provides.


Exactly. This is probably a necessity.
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stylish313


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrRay11 wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
DrRay11 wrote:
ironduke wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
ironduke wrote:
Couple points.

1. Best and Spievey are pretty much done, but why would Scheffler retire over concussions?
2. No way are they going to cut Shaun Hill unless a new OC and offense comes in.
3. Vanden Bosch isn't going anywhere. From what I have read, the cap hit would be worse if he was cut.
4. Corey Williams has publicly stated he will take whatever the lions offer next year. If healthy, he would be a great 4th DT at the vet minimum.
5. Moving the team to L.A. is a terrible idea to mock. Most fans would be like "Screw this organization" if they left Detroit.


1. Scheffler has had several concussions over the past few years, and I started writing this mock right after the game were he left early in the game after looking wobbly on his feet only to return. That is similar to what Speivey did during the playoffs and it ended up costing him.

2. Shaun Hill is making a lot of money for a backup QB. I tried to do everything I could to make cap room because I believe that is the situation the Lions will be facing this offseason.

3. I dont think the cap hit will be worse if KVB is cut, it just wont be that much of a relief. Also, if his play continues to decline at this rate he won't be worth the vet minimum next year imo. I just think he is done and it is time to move on from him.

4. That would be fantastic, but I hadn't heard that. Got a link?

5. As I've stated, that was just a way of expressing my frustration with the situations we find ourselves in week in and week out with every call going against us because of our reputation. I thought the new team name made that kinda clear.


KVB is due over 8 million in bonus money. If he is gone, it all hits the cap next year.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/kyle-vanden-bosch/

http://www.freep.com/article/20121206/SPORTS01/121206071/detroit-lions-corey-williams


Depending on whose numbers you're looking at, it looks like cutting KVB saves anywhere from 2.5-5 million from next year's cap hit.
I like using spotrac and thenetrat. Using either of those two sites, the Lions would save $5M in salary. The difference is in the cap hit, which I don't believe thenetrat has updated yet after KVB's restructure.

After cutting KVB, his cap hit will still be around $5.6M; which is a lot better than paying $10.6M for what he provides.


Exactly. This is probably a necessity.
The bad thing is, even after cutting KVB and saving that $5M in salary, we're still -$1M against the cap compared to where we were in 2012, since KVB's cap hit was $4.6M this season, and will be $5.6M next year without him even on our roster.
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