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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5630
Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Gruden rumor was squashed by the Raiders PR people. No truth to it. Lock this up.


I don't think it necessarily means there's no truth to it. If it's true, they won't come out and say they're speaking with Gruden to take over for Allen with a month left to go.


It'd be hard to come back form a quote like this:

Quote:
“Members of the media,” Gilbert writes, “[t]here are two people on this planet that have the ability to make talks happen between Jon Gruden and the Raiders, with regard to him allegedly taking over the football operations, and/or the position of head coach. Each of those individuals, owner Mark Davis and general manager Reggie McKenzie, wanted me to communicate that this rumor has no validity whatsoever. And for the record, I’m personally disgusted that Hub Arkush would spread such an untruth on the day our head coach, Dennis Allen, had to determine with his mom, his brother and sister, whether to take his dad off life support or wait and hope that he would regain consciousness. Dennis didn’t have an opportunity to say goodbye to his dad, but he did have an opportunity to take a phone call regarding Hub’s story.”


I can understand them denying a rumor. But to release that emotionally charged of a statement you are going to look pretty damn stupid if there is truth to it.


I wonder how much this had to do with the situation Allen was going through though.



Probably a lot of it. But I don't think that changes the fact that if they now hire Gruden at the end of the year they will look a like a bunch of clowns. Maybe Mark and Reggie haven't learnt from Al's mistakes though.
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oakdb36


Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 14483
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Gruden rumor was squashed by the Raiders PR people. No truth to it. Lock this up.


I don't think it necessarily means there's no truth to it. If it's true, they won't come out and say they're speaking with Gruden to take over for Allen with a month left to go.


It'd be hard to come back form a quote like this:

Quote:
“Members of the media,” Gilbert writes, “[t]here are two people on this planet that have the ability to make talks happen between Jon Gruden and the Raiders, with regard to him allegedly taking over the football operations, and/or the position of head coach. Each of those individuals, owner Mark Davis and general manager Reggie McKenzie, wanted me to communicate that this rumor has no validity whatsoever. And for the record, I’m personally disgusted that Hub Arkush would spread such an untruth on the day our head coach, Dennis Allen, had to determine with his mom, his brother and sister, whether to take his dad off life support or wait and hope that he would regain consciousness. Dennis didn’t have an opportunity to say goodbye to his dad, but he did have an opportunity to take a phone call regarding Hub’s story.”


I can understand them denying a rumor. But to release that emotionally charged of a statement you are going to look pretty damn stupid if there is truth to it.


I wonder how much this had to do with the situation Allen was going through though.



Probably a lot of it. But I don't think that changes the fact that if they now hire Gruden at the end of the year they will look a like a bunch of clowns. Maybe Mark and Reggie haven't learnt from Al's mistakes though.


I don't know. Them denying talks are happening doesn't mean talks won't happen. The statement they released seems more about making a point about how inappropriate it was to spread this rumor at this particular time and showing support to Allen through this tough time. Still, all i'm saying is i wouldn't totally exclude the possibility based on this.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 6470
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
I think titans view pretty accurate. He did a good job here with landing Gannon but he showed with Tampa that he couldn't do the same and find a Vet QB. He basically piggy backed onto Tampa's great D which he had pretty much nothing to do with. No idea why anyone would want a coach who either needs to hit with a 30+ year old has-been QB or needs someone to set up an elite defense for him to successful. He seems to be like a good fit for a team who has the pieces but not the coaching/motivation(someone like cowboys). In terms of building a team I couldn't think of a high profile coach I'd want less than Gruden.


Hmmm, sounds like a perfect match to me at least for the next 3 years. I'll take my chances with a shelf life of 3 years.
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 6470
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Gruden rumor was squashed by the Raiders PR people. No truth to it. Lock this up.


I don't think it necessarily means there's no truth to it. If it's true, they won't come out and say they're speaking with Gruden to take over for Allen with a month left to go.


It'd be hard to come back form a quote like this:

Quote:
“Members of the media,” Gilbert writes, “[t]here are two people on this planet that have the ability to make talks happen between Jon Gruden and the Raiders, with regard to him allegedly taking over the football operations, and/or the position of head coach. Each of those individuals, owner Mark Davis and general manager Reggie McKenzie, wanted me to communicate that this rumor has no validity whatsoever. And for the record, I’m personally disgusted that Hub Arkush would spread such an untruth on the day our head coach, Dennis Allen, had to determine with his mom, his brother and sister, whether to take his dad off life support or wait and hope that he would regain consciousness. Dennis didn’t have an opportunity to say goodbye to his dad, but he did have an opportunity to take a phone call regarding Hub’s story.”


I can understand them denying a rumor. But to release that emotionally charged of a statement you are going to look pretty damn stupid if there is truth to it.


I wonder how much this had to do with the situation Allen was going through though.



Probably a lot of it. But I don't think that changes the fact that if they now hire Gruden at the end of the year they will look a like a bunch of clowns. Maybe Mark and Reggie haven't learnt from Al's mistakes though.


IMO, if Allen is fired and Gruden is hired Mark gets the blame and looks like the impulsive inexperienced owner he is. The Raiders capitalizing on DA's family tragedy is less about bad timing and more about the cold ruthlessness of the NFL. At the end of the day Gruden to Raiders rumors are the only positive press they are getting right now. It's brilliant! Look at all the time we have been conversing about this rumor vs how bad this team is.
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5630
Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
Raidin wrote:
I think titans view pretty accurate. He did a good job here with landing Gannon but he showed with Tampa that he couldn't do the same and find a Vet QB. He basically piggy backed onto Tampa's great D which he had pretty much nothing to do with. No idea why anyone would want a coach who either needs to hit with a 30+ year old has-been QB or needs someone to set up an elite defense for him to successful. He seems to be like a good fit for a team who has the pieces but not the coaching/motivation(someone like cowboys). In terms of building a team I couldn't think of a high profile coach I'd want less than Gruden.


Hmmm, sounds like a perfect match to me at least for the next 3 years. I'll take my chances with a shelf life of 3 years.



Problem is we don't have the defence like we did then either. I think Gruden would do better than Allen is now, next three year we might even crack 8-8 with him. Anything beyond two years and we'd struggle.
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macklemore


Joined: 27 Apr 2012
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Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
Raidin wrote:
I think titans view pretty accurate. He did a good job here with landing Gannon but he showed with Tampa that he couldn't do the same and find a Vet QB. He basically piggy backed onto Tampa's great D which he had pretty much nothing to do with. No idea why anyone would want a coach who either needs to hit with a 30+ year old has-been QB or needs someone to set up an elite defense for him to successful. He seems to be like a good fit for a team who has the pieces but not the coaching/motivation(someone like cowboys). In terms of building a team I couldn't think of a high profile coach I'd want less than Gruden.


Hmmm, sounds like a perfect match to me at least for the next 3 years. I'll take my chances with a shelf life of 3 years.


Problem is we don't have the defence like we did then either. I think Gruden would do better than Allen is now, next three year we might even crack 8-8 with him. Anything beyond two years and we'd struggle.


You say that like Dennis Allen is a better long-term solution, what evidence are you basing this off?
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

macklemore wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
Raidin wrote:
I think titans view pretty accurate. He did a good job here with landing Gannon but he showed with Tampa that he couldn't do the same and find a Vet QB. He basically piggy backed onto Tampa's great D which he had pretty much nothing to do with. No idea why anyone would want a coach who either needs to hit with a 30+ year old has-been QB or needs someone to set up an elite defense for him to successful. He seems to be like a good fit for a team who has the pieces but not the coaching/motivation(someone like cowboys). In terms of building a team I couldn't think of a high profile coach I'd want less than Gruden.


Hmmm, sounds like a perfect match to me at least for the next 3 years. I'll take my chances with a shelf life of 3 years.


Problem is we don't have the defence like we did then either. I think Gruden would do better than Allen is now, next three year we might even crack 8-8 with him. Anything beyond two years and we'd struggle.


I'm not suggesting DA is the long-term solution at all. Rather I'm suggesting to Gruden critics of his short shelf life that if Gruden needs a reclamation veteran QB (a la Gannon or Brad Johnson) in order to succeed that I would take his short-term gains over the status quo.

You say that like Dennis Allen is a better long-term solution, what evidence are you basing this off?

_________________
Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5630
Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

macklemore wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
Raidin wrote:
I think titans view pretty accurate. He did a good job here with landing Gannon but he showed with Tampa that he couldn't do the same and find a Vet QB. He basically piggy backed onto Tampa's great D which he had pretty much nothing to do with. No idea why anyone would want a coach who either needs to hit with a 30+ year old has-been QB or needs someone to set up an elite defense for him to successful. He seems to be like a good fit for a team who has the pieces but not the coaching/motivation(someone like cowboys). In terms of building a team I couldn't think of a high profile coach I'd want less than Gruden.


Hmmm, sounds like a perfect match to me at least for the next 3 years. I'll take my chances with a shelf life of 3 years.


Problem is we don't have the defence like we did then either. I think Gruden would do better than Allen is now, next three year we might even crack 8-8 with him. Anything beyond two years and we'd struggle.


You say that like Dennis Allen is a better long-term solution, what evidence are you basing this off?



I think Gruden would be a terrible long term solution so I'd much prefer to go with the unknown option than the terrible one. Allen could turn out to be as bad or worse than Gruden, could turn to be great though.
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G


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 3315
Location: Hollywierd
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
Maybe he loved coaching the Raiders?
Maybe I'm dreaming... Pray


I honestly think he did...Al just didn't mwant to give him more control and he wasn't going to stay without it...
Gruden pushed Dungy's team just enough to beat the very team it needed to...
We were almost unstoppable that year and the year before 'Goose' pancaked Gannon and Hoying or Hoyer became our QB?!?
Our team aged with time, but we had teeth and remember Romo wanted to come here that year...How often do you have players leave division rivals to play them...He was a 49er at one time so I'd say 'something' made him want to come here and it was success on the field...

This move (Gruden) would be one of the few moves I'd embrace if Allen was fired...I remeber playing pool in San Diego with a guy who I thought looked too much like Jon...At that time I didn't know about Jay and it's be great to see a family reunion. I'd even welcome Monte Kiffen is Jon so desired. Very Happy
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