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EaglesFan5-36-81
Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 15139
Location: Sky is the limit and Space is the place
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 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| BBIB wrote: | | EaglesFan5-36-81 wrote: |
If you re-sign Jake Scott, all of a sudden your 2013-14 OL next is:
Peters-Mathis-Kelce-Scott-Herremans
Meaning Joeckel would be a backup. You don't draft depth in the first round, and especially in the top 10. Its a poor premise at its core and makes absolutley no sense. Even if he's not re-signed, Kelly has looked solid at RT, and you can line up Peters-Mathis-Kelce-Herremans-Kelly.
Drafting Joeckel at this point is dumb, especially when what you need is a developmental guy, and there are plenty from round 3 on. |
Jake Scott? Did Jake Long change his name to Jake Scott? Because surely no guy right now named Jake Scott has done anything to warrant him being considered a starter over Luke Joeckel who is one of the best offensive line prospects in years. He is one of the main reasons for the phenomenon known as Johnny Football with the way he stonewalled elite pass rushers in the SEC
Linemen aren't sexy draft picks but they can be cornerstones of your franchise
Ask the Patriots about Matt Light and Vince Wilfork |
Have you seen Jake Scott play these past few games? He's been a very good guard and your kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Its no coincidence that our OL has played much better since his insertion in the starting lineup. Either way with Peters, Kelce, and Herremans coming back, Kelly looking good at RT, and Scott potentially being re-signed, tackle is not a need in round one. I'd much rather have an offensive line of Jason Peters - Evan Mathis - Jason Kelce - Jake Scott - Todd Herremans and a top 5 pick and draft a guy like Reid Fragel to develop in the 4th than an offensive line of Jason Peters - Evan Mathis - Jason Kelce - Todd Herremans - Luke Joeckel and no more top 5 pick because we took an offensive lineman when we have much bigger needs.
QB is a position of need, and since you bring up the Patriots in your example, realize that they weren't worth a damn as a franchise until they found Brady, but 9 times out of 10 if you don't take your QB in the first they tend to flop. Matt Light meanwhile was a mid 2nd rounder. Vince Wilfork was mid 1st rounder. Neither were top 5 picks.
In addition to a QB, we need a completely new secondary, some pass rushers, a defensive tackle, a SAM linebacker, wide receiver, and potentially a tight end before we need an offensive line starter. We have a good OL when healthy, and its stupid. Over the past 10 years name a team that drafted an OL in the top 5 without having a franchise QB that has done a damned thing. |
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Bednarik60
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 37110
Location: Vancouver, Washington
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| EaglesFan5-36-81 wrote: | | . Over the past 10 years name a team that drafted an OL in the top 5 without having a franchise QB that has done a damned thing. |
This! and this! I am almost certain the last top 5 prospect at OL to go in the top 5 to start on a winning Super Bowl team was Johnathan Ogden of the Ravens over a decade ago.. hahaha that Super Bowl was a weird one too considering Kerry Collins and Trent Dilfer were the starting QB  and that was a down season for the league in terms of quarterback play vs the greatest defense to ever breathe.
You have to draft either a franchise QB or a superior weapon for your franchise QB or weapons on defense to stop the top tier franchise quarterbacks..
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WhackyPlague
Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 5071
Location: Orlando, FL
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:39 am Post subject: |
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I'd much rather get Star or Geno than an OT at this point, though obviously if we pick any later than #3 that might not be realistic. Joeckel would be a luxury pick, and obviously this team is nowhere near good enough for a luxury pick.
Coming away with Lotululei and Arthur Brown in the first two rounds would do a ton for this defense. Plus a decent D-coordinator would be nice. |
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ninjapirate
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 42659
Location: Vegas
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:46 am Post subject: |
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I think we need a new pass rusher be it we run a 3-4 or 4-3.
Not comfortable betting on graham and cole.
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Kiltman
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 17471
Location: Flipadelphia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:19 am Post subject: |
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| ninjapirate wrote: | I think we need a new pass rusher be it we run a 3-4 or 4-3.
Not comfortable betting on graham and cole. |
Damontre Moore should be there when we pick as will Bjoern Werner.....I agree I'd rather grab one of those guys over reaching on a tackle. We need another guy for the rotation and with cole hitting 30 it'd be a good time to add a talented DE.
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Ra Boogie
Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Posts: 128
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:20 am Post subject: |
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Forget Joeckel..... We need to get Chance Warmack....that dude is an animal and will be the best guard in couple years.....
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EaglesFan5-36-81
Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 15139
Location: Sky is the limit and Space is the place
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:56 am Post subject: |
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| Ra Boogie wrote: | | Forget Joeckel..... We need to get Chance Warmack....that dude is an animal and will be the best guard in couple years..... |
A guard in the first round?
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marky_b27
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 26053
Location: Nottingham, England
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:56 am Post subject: |
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There are two reasons why we should consider taking offensive linemen early:
1. 3 of our players did have season ending injuries, 2 of whom are over 30. In the past we've been burnt by relying on players coming back from injuries, we need to ensure we have contingency plans.
2. We have a habit of overrating our players (remember when Jamar Chaney was the new Jon Beason). Kelly has had a couple of solid games but let's not crown him the next Jon Runyan yet. The same thing with Scott. His arrival may have suddenly upgraded the line, but I think it's more to do with the fact that we have consistency upfront.
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Bednarik60
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 37110
Location: Vancouver, Washington
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:19 am Post subject: |
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No more Croatian quarterbacks please... Kafkamsash'Kafkaza or Smashbafaka..or who ever.. no more Croatian quarterbacks...
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marky_b27
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 26053
Location: Nottingham, England
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| ninjapirate wrote: | I think we need a new pass rusher be it we run a 3-4 or 4-3.
Not comfortable betting on graham and cole. |
I agree.
Cole's contract also increases significantly from 2015 onwards
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Bednarik60
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 37110
Location: Vancouver, Washington
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| marky_b27 wrote: | | ninjapirate wrote: | I think we need a new pass rusher be it we run a 3-4 or 4-3.
Not comfortable betting on graham and cole. |
I agree.
Cole's contract also increases significantly from 2015 onwards |
cut that redneck...
cut him.. most unlikable Eagle ever..
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Nabbs4u
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 29278
Location: 1st Ballot Eagles HOF 3x Gold Standard 09' /10 '/11' 2X ENBD/Pick em Winner Kiltman on the Sig
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:26 am Post subject: |
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There's just something about a Fletcher Cox/Star Lotululei combo for the next 5-10 years (assuming they are resigned) I think could have more of a impact then just another pass rusher. Edge rushers can be found throughout the draft. Players similar in skillset and being compared to a Haloti Ngata don't grow on trees. I'm just thinking of the pressure that could be created up the middle by those two.  Could have a similar effect as the Williams Wall did in Minny for all those years!
Cole----Cox---Lotululie------Graham
Curry-Thorton--Landri----Hunt/Brown
| WhackyPlague wrote: | | Coming away with Lotululei and Arthur Brown in the first two rounds would do a ton for this defense. |
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Kiltman
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 17471
Location: Flipadelphia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| Nabbs4u wrote: | There's just something about a Fletcher Cox/Star Lotululei combo for the next 5-10 years (assuming they are resigned) I think could have more of a impact then just another pass rusher. Edge rushers can be found throughout the draft. Players similar in skillset and being compared to a Haloti Ngata don't grow on trees. I'm just thinking of the pressure that could be created up the middle by those two. Could have a similar effect as the Williams Wall did in Minny for all those years!
Cole----Cox---Lotululie------Graham
Curry-Thorton--Landri----Hunt/Brown
| WhackyPlague wrote: | | Coming away with Lotululei and Arthur Brown in the first two rounds would do a ton for this defense. |
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StarCox would be awesome to have for sure...and they are both scheme diverse in their own ways so we can do some interesting things with them. If we stand pat At pick #2 or #3....Star is the guy I want rather then reaching on everyone else.
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Last edited by Kiltman on Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bednarik60
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 37110
Location: Vancouver, Washington
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| Nabbs4u wrote: | | There's just something about a Fletcher Cox/Star Lotululei combo for the next 5-10 years (assuming they are resigned) I think could have more of a impact then just another pass rusher. |
Dude there is something to lining up your most physical and strongest player over the ball over the nose of the center.. they get to the ball the fasest on any giving down... a pocket is set from the center and out.. not the left tackle and out.. ya dig.. I saw numbers before when the Packers won the super bowl that BJ Raji hurried/pressured the QB time and time again faster then Clay Matthews despite how dominate Clay looked.. it was Raji who was the real sack artist of the super bowl job..
Albert Haynsefattyworth comes to mind to.. he was the ultimate pocket collapser and sack setter-upper ever... dude was unstoppable and got to the QB with such force...
Cox and Star would be maybe the worst combo of pick your poison for a offensive coordinator in the history of defending interior lineman . . Thats Ultra Athletic Pat and Kevin Williams.. like freaky theory...
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RainbowCarebear
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 40372
Location: "Are you hungry, child?" Yes, she thought, but not for food.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| ninjapirate wrote: | I think we need a new pass rusher be it we run a 3-4 or 4-3.
Not comfortable betting on graham and cole. |
If Damontre or ansah byu guy is avaible go get em
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