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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22611
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Burgesskills wrote:
Quote:
I underatnd the dude is ferocious, emotional, aggressive, and a leader. Thats awesome, I love that in a player and we definitely need that. However, I am just not keen to using a high 1st on a MLB right now. Sure he will help in coverage of TEs and RBs, and he would help the run D, but only as much as our line would allow him to. I just really feel like our line will not keep him clean, and he wont be able to have the impact he is capable of having because of that. Our DBs will still struggle to cover, and our line still will not get to the QB. He wont change the fact that we cant rush the passer, and thats my biggest gripe.

I want a pass rusher who will torment QBs and put an end to us having to endure watching average QBs look good against us because they have so long to throw. The only non-pass rusher that I am OK with in the 1st is Star, and thats because he will directly impact our entire line (which will impact our LBs and DBs), improve our run stopping ability, free up our other linemen (giving them a better chance to rush the QB), and he even offers a little bit of pass rush ability himself. I'm looking at total impact from our 1st round pick, and I think Star or a stud pass rusher would have the greatest impact on our team right now.
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Very good points and great post. I understand this. At least you're not saying he is overrated and nonathletic. I myself, want Moore.


Can someone explain Moore to me? I don't see anything special in his game. His first step is ordinary. Just don't see the hype with him.

Werner IMO is the best looking DE. Most won't agree and that's fine.


big_palooka wrote:
Moore is a no brainer if he comes out. He's the type Oakland needs.


I thought you liked Moore? I think he looks great. I like Werner a lot too though. This is a great year to have a need at DE/OLB. Can't wait to see who Reggie addresses the D-line with.


I was confusing Moore and Werner. I heard Werner may go back to school. Werner is my no brainer, like his game.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22611
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bo_Spice wrote:
Nodisrespect wrote:
Personally i like Mingo the best.


Why? He's going to be a major bust.


+1. Not a fan of Mingo or Montgomery.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 7753
Location: CA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Darkness wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Burgesskills wrote:
Quote:
I underatnd the dude is ferocious, emotional, aggressive, and a leader. Thats awesome, I love that in a player and we definitely need that. However, I am just not keen to using a high 1st on a MLB right now. Sure he will help in coverage of TEs and RBs, and he would help the run D, but only as much as our line would allow him to. I just really feel like our line will not keep him clean, and he wont be able to have the impact he is capable of having because of that. Our DBs will still struggle to cover, and our line still will not get to the QB. He wont change the fact that we cant rush the passer, and thats my biggest gripe.

I want a pass rusher who will torment QBs and put an end to us having to endure watching average QBs look good against us because they have so long to throw. The only non-pass rusher that I am OK with in the 1st is Star, and thats because he will directly impact our entire line (which will impact our LBs and DBs), improve our run stopping ability, free up our other linemen (giving them a better chance to rush the QB), and he even offers a little bit of pass rush ability himself. I'm looking at total impact from our 1st round pick, and I think Star or a stud pass rusher would have the greatest impact on our team right now.
_________________



Very good points and great post. I understand this. At least you're not saying he is overrated and nonathletic. I myself, want Moore.


Can someone explain Moore to me? I don't see anything special in his game. His first step is ordinary. Just don't see the hype with him.

Werner IMO is the best looking DE. Most won't agree and that's fine.


big_palooka wrote:
Moore is a no brainer if he comes out. He's the type Oakland needs.


I thought you liked Moore? I think he looks great. I like Werner a lot too though. This is a great year to have a need at DE/OLB. Can't wait to see who Reggie addresses the D-line with.


I was confusing Moore and Werner. I heard Werner may go back to school. Werner is my no brainer, like his game.


big_palooka wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
I like the DT's and Mingo the most. Mingo is a boom or bust type, but I'm not a big fan of the other rushers besides Moore and he isn't guaranteed to come out.


Moore is a no brainer if he comes out. He's the type Oakland needs.


I'm pretty sure you were talking about Moore. Either way, I like Moore and Werner a lot and wouldn't be mad with either.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 33487
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to distance myself from the Mingo love in that post. Not feeling like he's our best option any more.
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G


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 3309
Location: Hollywierd
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
We have a MLB.
He might not be what we wanted, but it's not a need like PASS RUSH or blocking, maybe a CB depending on FA

It's the same thought process with QB. We've got one who's good enough, so unless it's a QB that you can't pass up...
I don't like high picks on LB's, S's or TE's...


Well now we don't have a MLB Rolling Eyes

Even if he was the next Seau, I don't think a top 10 pick should be spent on a LB...
Trade down, if not possible, then top pass rusher or run stuffer and if all are gone QB then Teo
My point is to trade down and get younger as the cancers on this team need to be gone ASAP!!!
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hypno toad


Joined: 20 Sep 2012
Posts: 80
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Viking fan here who has always been a fan of the Raiders. Here's my input:

I think the Raider's biggest concern is obviously DL, maybe even a CB. I do think what Te'o brings to the table is more than just filling a need. There's the obvious leadership factor that can completely change a defense, but I think the MLB is the anchor of the defense, the quarterback equivalent to the defense.

I think the difference between a great LB and great DL is huge. Suh and JPP are both gigantic factors as young Dlineman, but I think a the presence of a great LB is unrivalved

I would love to see Te'o in black. The name would look good in it, the tattoos would match all badass like, and he's hell of a player going to a team I like. I just can't see this kid busting as much as a lineman.
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Bo_Spice


Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 9687
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hypno toad wrote:
Viking fan here who has always been a fan of the Raiders. Here's my input:

I think the Raider's biggest concern is obviously DL, maybe even a CB. I do think what Te'o brings to the table is more than just filling a need. There's the obvious leadership factor that can completely change a defense, but I think the MLB is the anchor of the defense, the quarterback equivalent to the defense.

I think the difference between a great LB and great DL is huge. Suh and JPP are both gigantic factors as young Dlineman, but I think a the presence of a great LB is unrivalved

I would love to see Te'o in black. The name would look good in it, the tattoos would match all badass like, and he's hell of a player going to a team I like. I just can't see this kid busting as much as a lineman.


So you think that even with our lack of anything resembling a good defensive line and a scheme that Te'o doesn't fit into, he'd be a good fit?

He's not a great athlete, his defensive line keeps him clean, and he lacks sideline to sideline range.

And you say the presence of a great linebacker is unrivaled but the past few super bowl winners didn't have a great linebacking core, I'd say most of them had better defensive lines.

If you have a great defensive line it makes your linebackers job so much easier but if you have good linebackers and a bad defensive line it makes everything harder for your linebackers.
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Nodisrespect


Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 3915
Location: in the present
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bo_Spice wrote:
Nodisrespect wrote:
Personally i like Mingo the best.


Why? He's going to be a major bust.
I like Mingo, because he projects to NFL position at OLB much much better than any other prospect when we are talking about becoming elite. Also great defensive players are freaks like 98% of the time, and while Star is a freak to me, i don't really think Moore is, his first step is pretty slow, and his strength is not mind blowing. Jarvis is really strong for his size and i like him but the whole injury thing is a turn off.

I think Mingo, Sheldon Richardson, Werner, Ansah and Dion Jordan are the top guys.

My new Raiders big board
1.Milliner
2. Mingo
3.Sheldon Richardson
4.Werner
5.Star
6.Moore


Even we trade down we should still get one of these guys since we will have the first pick and i assume we are going 3-4 next year with all the lineman leaving(Seymour,Shauanessy at minimum).

Bilukidi looks like a NT at times houston and Bryant at DE and we would need a OLB/DE pass rusher.
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Bo_Spice


Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 9687
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nodisrespect wrote:
I like Mingo, because he projects to NFL position at OLB much much better than any other prospect when we are talking about becoming elite.


I mean but what has he shown that makes him look like a guy with the potential to be an elite outside linebacker? He does have an excellent burst off of the line of scrimmage, I'll give you that. But he lacks the strength you look for in a linebacker and he misses way too many tackles at defensive end, yet you expect him to be a better tackler while having to play in space against better competition?

Mingo is going to the biggest bust in this years draft. He's a one trick pony with that trick being his elite quickness off of the line of scrimmage because he literally brings nothing else to the table.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14929
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Bo_Spice wrote:
Nodisrespect wrote:
Personally i like Mingo the best.


Why? He's going to be a major bust.


+1. Not a fan of Mingo or Montgomery.


this
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14929
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bo_Spice wrote:
hypno toad wrote:
Viking fan here who has always been a fan of the Raiders. Here's my input:

I think the Raider's biggest concern is obviously DL, maybe even a CB. I do think what Te'o brings to the table is more than just filling a need. There's the obvious leadership factor that can completely change a defense, but I think the MLB is the anchor of the defense, the quarterback equivalent to the defense.

I think the difference between a great LB and great DL is huge. Suh and JPP are both gigantic factors as young Dlineman, but I think a the presence of a great LB is unrivalved

I would love to see Te'o in black. The name would look good in it, the tattoos would match all badass like, and he's hell of a player going to a team I like. I just can't see this kid busting as much as a lineman.


So you think that even with our lack of anything resembling a good defensive line and a scheme that Te'o doesn't fit into, he'd be a good fit?

He's not a great athlete, his defensive line keeps him clean, and he lacks sideline to sideline range.

And you say the presence of a great linebacker is unrivaled but the past few super bowl winners didn't have a great linebacking core, I'd say most of them had better defensive lines.

If you have a great defensive line it makes your linebackers job so much easier but if you have good linebackers and a bad defensive line it makes everything harder for your linebackers.


agree.
whats the diff between teo and rolo as prospects coming out of college?
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101
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Bo_Spice


Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 9687
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The media loves Te'o more than they loved McClain so that obviously makes him a better prospect and a better fit for our defense than McClain, duh!

But in all seriousness, Te'o and McClain do have some similarities as prospects. Both played in a 3-4 behind a dominant defensive line that kept them clean. Both played on the best defense in college football which made them look better than they actually were. Both have a hard time getting off of blocks when they do reach the second level, both lack elite speed or quickness which limits them to a 3-4 defense because they don't have sideline to sideline range.

Even their measurable's are pretty similar.

McClain 6'3" 250, 4.69 forty.

Te'o 6'2" 255, 4.68 forty. (Projected)
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14929
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yup deja vu now all teo needs is a national championship
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 3176
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
yup deja vu now all teo needs is a national championship


Wait a dang minute here...
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Nodisrespect


Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 3915
Location: in the present
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bo_Spice wrote:
Nodisrespect wrote:
I like Mingo, because he projects to NFL position at OLB much much better than any other prospect when we are talking about becoming elite.


I mean but what has he shown that makes him look like a guy with the potential to be an elite outside linebacker? He does have an excellent burst off of the line of scrimmage, I'll give you that. But he lacks the strength you look for in a linebacker and he misses way too many tackles at defensive end, yet you expect him to be a better tackler while having to play in space against better competition?

Mingo is going to the biggest bust in this years draft. He's a one trick pony with that trick being his elite quickness off of the line of scrimmage because he literally brings nothing else to the table.
Ok we can look back at this, and we will acknowledge this at a later date, i make ALOT of sig bets and yet i don't have a sig.

Who is your guy outside of Star? I will sig bet against any individual players rookie season if you would like.
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