Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Wes Welker Circa 2012.
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL General
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
tonyto3690


Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Posts: 5506
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lionslicer wrote:
The year he gets 100 receptions and the Patriots don't have a deep threat is the year I start thinking about HOF for him. Those tight ends pretty much clear up all short routes.


Seriously? The issue typically is that all of Welker/Gronk/Hernandez patrol the same portion of the field. If you're really trying to suggest Gronk and Herandez, two tight ends, are true deep threats I don't know what to tell you besides to try to get a new pair of glasses. The hater shades can obscure your view.

Tatupu_64 wrote:
sansoftime wrote:
lionslicer wrote:
The year he gets 100 receptions and the Patriots don't have a deep threat is the year I start thinking about HOF for him. Those tight ends pretty much clear up all short routes.


Then how come no lion other than cj will get a 100 receptions? Exactly what he does is special
Hahahahaha

Oh boy. Because Welker does have a nice set of hands and runs some nice short and intermediate routes. But more than anything because Welker is consistently targeted because he is put in a position to be consistently targeted.

Welker does nothing better than Anquan Boldin to be frank. He's just in a scheme that benefits him greatly. Welker and Boldin are both good receivers, and Welker has aged better than Boldin, but neither are HOF types.


You do not have 4 110+ catch seasons by being a system player. Jerry Rice couldn't even do what Welker has done, and if it were so easy, everyone would be doing it. The system argument has to be the most absurd and stupid argument there can be made against him. The real argument against his HOF credentials is the lack of TDs.

Welker doesnt' get open because of a system. He gets open because he's the best route runner in the NFL and the best WR in the NFL in reading defenses and finding cracks. Having Brady helps, but Brady feeds him the ball because he gets open almost every snap. Belichicks magical system doesn't give Welker the ability to teleport to open space of make him invisible to opposing defenders. Welker gets open by himself by beating his man.

The Dolphins tried doubling him, they tried putting their #1 on him, they tried bracketing him, they tried bump and run. They tried every coverage scheme against him and he had 12 REC for 103 yards and a TD.
_________________
C0LTSFAN4L1F3 wrote:

Drew Brees IS the most accurate qb ever

Brees that night:
28/50, 341 yards, 0 TD, 5 INT.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheVillain112


Moderator
Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 16015
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dalton wrote:
Probowl? Maybe.
All-Pro? Doubtful.
HOF? Not a chance.
Hall of Very Good? Yes.


You should post more often...
_________________


chris00cm wrote:
Lavelle Hawkins figures he's already cut, so YOLO.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tonyto3690


Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Posts: 5506
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welker is the only player with three 110+ catch seasons. He did the three consecutively, blew out his knee, was expected to miss half the season, came back started game 1 and had 86 receptions. The next year he had 122. This year he's projected to have 123.

Had he not blown his knee out, and if he even slows down this years production, he would have had 6 consecutive seasons of 110+ catches. Again, no one has had even three non-consecutive. Not Jerry Rice, not Marvin Harrison.


To say Welker is a system player is absurd. No one comes even close to the level of production that he puts up year in and year out. Lets not forget that when Brady went out he still had 111 catches for 1165 yards. He would be successful anywhere and with anyone.
_________________
C0LTSFAN4L1F3 wrote:

Drew Brees IS the most accurate qb ever

Brees that night:
28/50, 341 yards, 0 TD, 5 INT.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheVillain112


Moderator
Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 16015
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonyto3690 wrote:
Welker is the only player with three 110+ catch seasons.


Cool story bro. Still has a slim chance of getting into the HOF...
_________________


chris00cm wrote:
Lavelle Hawkins figures he's already cut, so YOLO.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Willink


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 11442
Location: Albany, NY
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At this point I think Welkers chances at the hall are looking up

hes kept up consistent production and has been the prototype for the slot receiver. If we are gonna put in Art Monk for pioneering why not Welker. Only 31 too so he's got a few more productive years in front of him.
_________________

Quote:
If I have not lost my mind I can sometimes hear it preparing to defect
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Cryptkeeper


Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 2464
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolverine_Joe wrote:
what if he keeps this up for 5 more years? You can't ignore his stats.


I don't think he's got 5 good years left in him, but if he does, it's possible he gets up to #2 all time in receptions. That would get him in. Oddly enough if he had some of those years without Brady it'd probably help his case the same way it's helping Wayne's case that Peyton's not his QB now. Voters won't think he was solely a product of his QB then.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
goldfishwars


Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 8519
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't get open, you don''t get the ball. He has a uncanny knack for creating seperation in short areas - you CANNOT just say he's a product of the scheme, the scheme is designed around his skill-set. This is the freakin' NFL - if it was that easy, everyone would be doing it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Eastern Walrus


Joined: 25 Oct 2010
Posts: 3147
Location: on safari
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No ring makes it tough for a lot of receivers to get in, I'm a big Welker fan so I hope he gets in someday
_________________
2013 Adopt a Minnesota Viking - Xavier Rhodes - CB - #29

XBL - Eastern Walrus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FirstDownFaulk


Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 4934
Location: New York
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

goldfishwars wrote:
You don't get open, you don''t get the ball. He has a uncanny knack for creating seperation in short areas - you CANNOT just say he's a product of the scheme, the scheme is designed around his skill-set. This is the freakin' NFL - if it was that easy, everyone would be doing it.

People who say that he's a product of the scheme have no clue what they're talking about and have obviously not watched him play. He runs primarily OPTION routes and for those of you that are unsure what this means....it means that he's entrusted to recognize the defense, run the route that attacks it best, and hope that Brady sees it the same way. Welker may not have Hall of Fame physical attributes, but he has the production, work ethic, and knowledge of the game that more than makes up for it.

I'm not saying he will get in, I'm not saying he won't. I'm simply saying that the "system" kool-aid drinkers should watch the games before believing what they hear because you look foolish thinking the system is what leads to his production.
_________________
jrry32 wrote:
Tom Brady hasn't left NE and proven himself not to be a system QB...so he is one.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FirstDownFaulk


Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 4934
Location: New York
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
sansoftime wrote:
lionslicer wrote:
The year he gets 100 receptions and the Patriots don't have a deep threat is the year I start thinking about HOF for him. Those tight ends pretty much clear up all short routes.


Then how come no lion other than cj will get a 100 receptions? Exactly what he does is special
Hahahahaha

Oh boy. Because Welker does have a nice set of hands and runs some nice short and intermediate routes.But more than anything because Welker is consistently targeted because he is put in a position to be consistently targeted.

Welker does nothing better than Anquan Boldin to be frank. He's just in a scheme that benefits him greatly. Welker and Boldin are both good receivers, and Welker has aged better than Boldin, but neither are HOF types.

Welker puts himself in the position to be targeted....he runs primarily OPTION routes. His level of production is a result of his intelligence, ability to read a defense, route running, hands, and being on the same page with his quarterback. Give credit where it's due.
_________________
jrry32 wrote:
Tom Brady hasn't left NE and proven himself not to be a system QB...so he is one.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Troy Brown


Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 24139
Location: Newport, Rhode Island
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'll be interesting to see where he finishes his career, what his numbers look like. If he keeps this up for two more years, which I think he might be capable of, I don't see any way he doesn't get strong hall of fame consideration. I don't think he'll get in, probably, but he'll get the consideration. Especially if the Patriots win the Superbowl, which is a pretty big if.
_________________
MAYBE YOUR BEST COURSE WOULD BE TO TREAD LIGHTLY

ELRammy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 45233
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's another Welker-HOF conversation...really?
_________________
The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 45233
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Troy Brown wrote:
It'll be interesting to see where he finishes his career, what his numbers look like. If he keeps this up for two more years, which I think he might be capable of, I don't see any way he doesn't get strong hall of fame consideration. I don't think he'll get in, probably, but he'll get the consideration. Especially if the Patriots win the Superbowl, which is a pretty big if.


Well, considering the logjam at the WR position and the stigma that goes with being a slot WR...I don't see it. If he put up another 4 to 5 years, he might have a decent shot especially if the Patriots win a Super Bowl and he plays well in it.

But I think people underestimate how much it's going to be held against him that he was never considered a #1 WR and rarely played outside.
_________________
The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Troy Brown


Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 24139
Location: Newport, Rhode Island
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
Troy Brown wrote:
It'll be interesting to see where he finishes his career, what his numbers look like. If he keeps this up for two more years, which I think he might be capable of, I don't see any way he doesn't get strong hall of fame consideration. I don't think he'll get in, probably, but he'll get the consideration. Especially if the Patriots win the Superbowl, which is a pretty big if.


Well, considering the logjam at the WR position and the stigma that goes with being a slot WR...I don't see it. If he put up another 4 to 5 years, he might have a decent shot especially if the Patriots win a Super Bowl and he plays well in it.

But I think people underestimate how much it's going to be held against him that he was never considered a #1 WR and rarely played outside.


I don't think it'll matter much by then. Slot receivers are becoming more and more prevalent in the league and Welker was the first and best at it. We don't know what the logjam will be like when Welker is eligible, either. I'm not saying he'll receive first ballot consideration or even much consideration his first five years but when it's all said and done, I don't see how he doesn't receive consideration. His numbers are too ridiculous. I think people overestimate that he rarely played outside and what do you mean, #1 receiver? He's been the number one receiver here since 08. It's not like there are many HOF caliber receivers playing right now. Moss, Johnson, Fitz.

Either way, there's a lot of football left in him. We'll have to see where he stands when he hangs it up. In 15-20 years, though, I don't see why he couldn't receive consideration. Like I said, I don't think he'll get it in but I do think he's got a decent chance if he continues on the track he's on. Which I think everyone should be in agreement with.
_________________
MAYBE YOUR BEST COURSE WOULD BE TO TREAD LIGHTLY

ELRammy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 45233
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Troy Brown wrote:


I don't think it'll matter much by then. Slot receivers are becoming more and more prevalent in the league and Welker was the first and best at it.


We're going to nip this in the bud right now. Welker was not even close to the first slot WR. Most prolific? Yes. Hell, Brandon Stokley put up 1000+ yards and 10 TDs in the slot in 2004. Az Hakim played out of the slot for the GSOT as did Ricky Proehl.

And if I remember correctly, Troy Brown, the guy you're named for, played out of the slot a few years in NE.

Quote:
We don't know what the logjam will be like when Welker is eligible, either. I'm not saying he'll receive first ballot consideration or even much consideration his first five years but when it's all said and done, I don't see how he doesn't receive consideration. His numbers are too ridiculous. I think people overestimate that he rarely played outside and what do you mean, #1 receiver? He's been the number one receiver here since 08. It's not like there are many HOF caliber receivers playing right now. Moss, Johnson, Fitz.


The stigma of a #1 WR is considered to be an outside WR.

And his numbers aren't all that ridiculous when compared to other WRs who are still waiting for their name to be called.

Quote:
Either way, there's a lot of football left in him. We'll have to see where he stands when he hangs it up. In 15-20 years, though, I don't see why he couldn't receive consideration. Like I said, I don't think he'll get it in but I do think he's got a decent chance if he continues on the track he's on. Which I think everyone should be in agreement with.


In 15 to 20 years, with the way the passing game is going, I think his chances will only be hurt.

Like I said, 4 to 5 more years at this level as well as a post-season defining moment and I'll say he's in. But if he can only manage another couple years, I'll say the chances are low...unless he just dominates the post-season and the Super Bowl in a legacy defining way.
_________________
The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL General All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Page 3 of 10

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group