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PurpleMugen
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 3638
Location: Rutgers University
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 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Klomp wrote: | Hmmm....
| Quote: | | “@TomPelissero: It's telling no one in #Vikings locker room seems to have been in touch with Percy. Liked, respected, but not sure he has many close friends” |
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I understand that Pelissero is a journalist with close access to many things Vikings-related, but now journalists are able to evaluate the strength of friendships between players? I actually laughed at this.
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Freakout
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 1788
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| CriminalMind wrote: | | LoverInTheCold wrote: | | I'd say New England makes the most sense, both for them and Percy. But would they bite? |
Not chance I would take the 30-32th pick in the draft for Percy. |
If only we had a magic ball to see the future. I would be fine with putting Harvin's money toward a receiver like Bowe and then use a late first on Robert Woods. That is if Harvin has no desire to be here.
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PurpleMugen
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 3638
Location: Rutgers University
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| LoverInTheCold wrote: | | CriminalMind wrote: | | LoverInTheCold wrote: | | I'd say New England makes the most sense, both for them and Percy. But would they bite? |
Not chance I would take the 30-32th pick in the draft for Percy. |
Fair enough. What if the Jets coming sniffing around with a Top 10 pick? I know it's incredibly unlikely, but they were interested last off-season and that move might allow us to grab Te'o/Ogletree and Keenan Allen. |
Top-10 picks simply do not get tossed around very often (I can't even recall the last time a top-10 pick was traded straight up for a non-rookie player), and even if that offer was made, I'm not sure I would take it. This thread comes as no surprise though because Harvin has been severely undervalued on this board from day one. He is not a "Vincent Jackson" WR (not sure why V-Jax comes up so often, either, because I don't consider him an elite outside WR). He's something unique - a multifaceted weapon that defies positional rigidity. He can excel from different parts of the field and is therefore a nightmare assignment for opposing defenses (not just the man covering him, I mean the entire unit).
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 39762
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I refer to Vincent Jackson because he is the most recent case to what the market is for a top 5 - 10 WR is on the open market. Harvin will likely want money in that neighborhood. |
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byuvike88
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 165
Location: Shelley Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Sloppy28 wrote: | | Frank Costello wrote: | Trade Harvin? You guys dont know an elite WR if it slapped you in the face. Percy is a top 10 WR in this league. i said it before the season and ruffled some feathers.
Now I see people saying theyre ok with a trade? Are you guys related to Red McCombs? That must be it, because youre ok with trading a franchise WR.
Lol wow. Unbelievable Viking fans are. |
Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, Greg Jennings, Brandon Marshall, Steve Smith, Larry Fitzgerald, Dwayne Bowe, Mike Wallace, Steve Johnson, Pierre Garcon, Demaryius Thomas, Vincent Jackson, Dez Bryant, Victor Cruz, Hakeem Nicks, Reggie Wayne, Marques Colston, Andre Johnson, Wes Welker, Julio Jones, Roddy White, Torrey Smith, Miles Austin, Jordy Nelson, Eric Decker, Randall Cobb..... Top 10? Really? Percy is a stud No Question, but to be a TOP 10 Receiver you need to be more than just a short pattern WR who doesn't even score Touch Downs... Get real on the top 10. |
Pick 9 of those receivers that are better than Harvin, cuz i think he would go toe to toe with anyone of them except maybe Andre and Calvin Johnson, Fitzgerald, and Marshall. I would put him right with Greg Jennings, AJ Green, Reggie Wayne, Marques Colston, and Wes Welker |
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 39762
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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What does Harvin do that makes him an elite or top 10 WR?
He is not an efficient WR and he benefits from a large number of targets within five yards from the line of scrimmage. He is a good WR to have on your team and is probably top 15-20 but he isnt a premier WR in this league and hasnt shown the consistent down field route running ability and ability to haul in passes down field. Maybe its by design or maybe he is limited by his QB situation, but I am not going to assume that he has the same down field ability as some of the WRs in the top 10 do.
I love that Harvin is on my team and he adds a dynamic element underneath, but at what cost is he worth keeping around and what value does he have if MN wants to shop around or if Harvin wants to leave? The stunt he pulled in the offseason screams that he is a diva, what if he doesnt get his new contract this offseason after what most will probably consider a disappointing season for him. how will he behave? |
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byuvike88
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 165
Location: Shelley Idaho
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:27 am Post subject: |
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He was leading the league in reception when he was injured, with a less than stellar quarterback. All of those receivers have very talented quarterbacks save maybe Fitzgerald. It's not that he can't run routes downfield it's that Ponder isn't that accurate. That was the point i made with his rookie year with Favre. He did it plenty
He had one incident which was overblown in the off season, and a heated moment on the sidelines.He is a great competitor and gives everything he has, so i will give him a little bit of a break when he wants to win. We all want Frazier to show some fire but when Harvin does he is a team distraction, lets trade him. We will not be able to get equal value for him |
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Klomp
Joined: 11 Aug 2011
Posts: 3526
Location: The Home of Schwan's Ice Cream
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| byuvike88 wrote: | | He is a great competitor and gives everything he has, so i will give him a little bit of a break when he wants to win. |
Pretty sure everyone gives it everything they have, otherwise they wouldn't last in this league long.
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 39762
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| byuvike88 wrote: | He was leading the league in reception when he was injured, with a less than stellar quarterback. All of those receivers have very talented quarterbacks save maybe Fitzgerald. It's not that he can't run routes downfield it's that Ponder isn't that accurate. That was the point i made with his rookie year with Favre. He did it plenty
He had one incident which was overblown in the off season, and a heated moment on the sidelines.He is a great competitor and gives everything he has, so i will give him a little bit of a break when he wants to win. We all want Frazier to show some fire but when Harvin does he is a team distraction, lets trade him. We will not be able to get equal value for him |
Sure, but that is part of the efficiency. There probably isnt a receiver or an offense in the league that throws as many passes behind the line of scrimmage as Harvin and the Vikings do. That isnt an efficient offense and while Harvin is special with the ball in his hands, it hasnt resulted in enough big time plays or TDs.
Maybe Harvin is more than just a bubble screen/short area receiver in a different offense or with a different QB, but that is what he is in MN and if there is any disconnect from the team (could be the case with how he handled his situation going to the media first before coaches/lockerroom). That is kind of a big deal, either he doesnt have a strong bond with coaches/teammates, or he just didnt know how to conduct himself professionally and it isnt that big of a deal.
Regardless, Harvin has one year left and MN needs to decide what his future is given his current role. |
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byuvike88
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 165
Location: Shelley Idaho
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| Klomp wrote: | | byuvike88 wrote: | | He is a great competitor and gives everything he has, so i will give him a little bit of a break when he wants to win. |
Pretty sure everyone gives it everything they have, otherwise they wouldn't last in this league long. |
You tell me one player that gives as much as he has besides Peterson. There are plenty of players who last long in this league on talent alone |
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Yfz01
Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 8305
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:01 am Post subject: |
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| vikingsrule wrote: | | What does Harvin do that makes him an elite or top 10 WR?? |
Catches a high percentage of his targets even with a terrible QB, more than doubles the next player in YAC, and is a threat in ways a traditional WR isn't (backfield, reverse, etc)
I don't understand how any Vikings fan could ask that question after watching the first half of the season. Harvin was absolutely incredible in every aspect of the game, even tricking a few of you into thinking Ponder was a good QB.
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Klomp
Joined: 11 Aug 2011
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Location: The Home of Schwan's Ice Cream
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| Yfz01 wrote: | | vikingsrule wrote: | | What does Harvin do that makes him an elite or top 10 WR?? |
Catches a high percentage of his targets even with a terrible QB, more than doubles the next player in YAC, and is a threat in ways a traditional WR isn't (backfield, reverse, etc)
I don't understand how any Vikings fan could ask that question after watching the first half of the season. Harvin was absolutely incredible in every aspect of the game, even tricking a few of you into thinking Ponder was a good QB. |
Those make him a versatile player, but not a top 10 receiver.
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PurpleMugen
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 3638
Location: Rutgers University
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| Klomp wrote: | | byuvike88 wrote: | | He is a great competitor and gives everything he has, so i will give him a little bit of a break when he wants to win. |
Pretty sure everyone gives it everything they have, otherwise they wouldn't last in this league long. |
Pretty sure this isn't even close to true. Albert Haynesworth says hi.
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thestonedkoala
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3808
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| I have a feeling that Harvin is the tip of the iceberg over what's going on at the front office. Frazier didn't rule him out and I think he knows that if Harvin is out, his job is very much on the line. So, he's trying to get Harvin back in the lineup. But Spielman doesn't want to risk Harvin getting a more serious injury (Peterson anyone) and wants Frazier to shut him down. There was also the issue of Harvin wanting to be traded this offseason that didn't manifest. I think there is a definite feud going on between Frazier and Spielman. |
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vike daddy
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 66830
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| thestonedkoala wrote: | | I have a feeling that Harvin is the tip of the iceberg over what's going on at the front office. Frazier didn't rule him out and I think he knows that if Harvin is out, his job is very much on the line. So, he's trying to get Harvin back in the lineup. But Spielman doesn't want to risk Harvin getting a more serious injury (Peterson anyone) and wants Frazier to shut him down. There was also the issue of Harvin wanting to be traded this offseason that didn't manifest. I think there is a definite feud going on between Frazier and Spielman. |
doubtful, but you can always hope, as I am sure you are.
Speaking after Thursday's practice, Frazier said the decision to end Harvin's season proved difficult but was one the organization began seriously discussing earlier this week when it became apparent Harvin's recovery from a sprained left ankle wasn't progressing significantly enough.
Frazier: "You realize that for him as well as our team this is the best thing to do. As opposed to continuing to try to make something happen that's not going to happen."
Asked directly if there was anything more than the injury that factored into things -- the same question the head coach danced around Wednesday -- Frazier shook his head.
"No," he replied firmly. "No."
http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/182469951.html?refer=y
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