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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5559
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
Not to take a way anything from Gruden but he had the last great Raider team built for him by Al Davis who he guided, he was not brought in to build a roster or nurture young talent or develop players. The team in Tampa was already assembled with a great D. He basically had success in the exact opposite of what we are trying to currently do.

IMO he has been out of coaching for too long to walk into a rebuilding team and take the reigns, he needs a ready assembled squad he can dictate and guide, theres also a reason why they say 'never go back' as Art Shell found out.


When he came to Oakland, he only had Biekert and Brown. He turned the team into winners and throughout the years, the vets were added to make a run. He did a fine job as a HC. Imo, his offense also made Gannon look better than he really was.


+1

Gannon played for 11 years before coming to Oakland and was never better than average. Under Gruden he blossomed into one of the best QBs in the NFL, setting records and taking us to the playoffs multiple times. How often does a QB go from journeyman to All-Pro at 35 years old? Gruden set up an offense that worked best for the player he had.

I'm not sure why people are saying he cant draft well or develop young players. In Oakland, Woodson, Collins, Stinchcomb, Jano, and Porter all ended up being good. Now, we dont even know how much input he had with Al in the process, but even in TB his first round picks turned out well (aside from injuries): Talib, Joseph, Cadillac, and Adams. And if he had little-to-no input on either team, then people cant say squat about his drafting ability because it is unknown. As for developing young players, all those guys listed above became (at a minimum) starters, and several became Pro-Bowlers.

Yea Al brought in a ton of vet FA's while Gruden was here, but they were all players that had been cast out of their old teams because they didnt have much left. Gruden was able to rejuvinate guys like Rod Woodson, Andre Rison, and Romo and they played really well when they had "nothing left". That says a lot about a coach to me.
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1409
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
Yea Al brought in a ton of vet FA's while Gruden was here, but they were all players that had been cast out of their old teams because they didnt have much left. Gruden was able to rejuvinate guys like Rod Woodson, Andre Rison, and Romo and they played really well when they had "nothing left". That says a lot about a coach to me.


There's no denying he did a great job with the tools he had, the point I was trying (and failing miserably) to make was that he succeeded as you say with experienced vets and trades that Al Davis brought in like those listed above, I think we are trying to get away from the Al Davis style of building a team which worked so well under those specific circumstances at that time.

Also, if you're going to give Gruden kudos for reviving Gannon and building the team (though i believe it was mostly Al Davis and thats why Gruden was less than pleased that he didn't get his way more often), statistically and in my opinion Gannon had his best year under Bill Callaghan and no one is clamouring to have him back - I understand that Callaghan took over 'Grudens team' but clearly Callaghan did just as well if not better with said team?
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 15408
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:

Also, if you're going to give Gruden kudos for reviving Gannon and building the team (though i believe it was mostly Al Davis and thats why Gruden was less than pleased that he didn't get his way more often), statistically and in my opinion Gannon had his best year under Bill Callaghan and no one is clamouring to have him back - I understand that Callaghan took over 'Grudens team' but clearly Callaghan did just as well if not better with said team?


If it wasn't clear already, we all figured out Callahan was just along for the ride when the Bucs knew everything we were doing in that Super Bowl.
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