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Geno Smith or Kevin Kolb
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stchamp98


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Joined: 11 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yibbyl wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
We can't plan on starting Kevin Kolb. That's all I know. You can't plan on playing a guy who never starts more than 9 games a year.

But you could renegotiate his contract and have him start initially as the rookie learns the ropes. If the rookie can take over mid-year or earlier, great - if not, you get what you can out of Kolb for the whole season and hope the rookie is ready the following one. And IMHO Kolb would be an excellent backup for some team somewhere...even here. I'd try to restructure and hang on to him one more season or more if the price was right (EDIT) ...assuming he could pass a physical.


Ok but if that rookie is Geno Smith, you really don't want to have him sitting on the bench for the price we'd surely pay. You wank-check that- you need him out there. If Kolb's willing to play backup that's great. If not, you have to move on.
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Yibbyl


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Yibbyl wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
We can't plan on starting Kevin Kolb. That's all I know. You can't plan on playing a guy who never starts more than 9 games a year.

But you could renegotiate his contract and have him start initially as the rookie learns the ropes. If the rookie can take over mid-year or earlier, great - if not, you get what you can out of Kolb for the whole season and hope the rookie is ready the following one. And IMHO Kolb would be an excellent backup for some team somewhere...even here. I'd try to restructure and hang on to him one more season or more if the price was right (EDIT) ...assuming he could pass a physical.


Ok but if that rookie is Geno Smith, you really don't want to have him sitting on the bench for the price we'd surely pay. You wank-check that- you need him out there. If Kolb's willing to play backup that's great. If not, you have to move on.

When deciding on a starter, I could care less about who was drafted where, salary, or cost in draft picks. I want the players on the field who give us the best chance at winning the game. Period. If we do trade up to get Geno, sure I'd hope he could beat out every other QB on the roster. However, just because he might be the top rated QB available this year, doesn't mean he is a lock to be a gamer...errors in evaluation happen. So does the improvement of other players.

Also, at the time I was renegotiating Kolb's contract, I'd be up front about not guaranteeing him a starting position. I'd explain he'd compete to start just like I would expect every other single player on the team to compete. QB's, like Favre for example, who demand to start without competing (but still expect you to put the best possible players on the field with them) need to be shown the door. If they're too wimpy to even compete against their teammates, how can you expect them to give their all during each and every game?!? So, yeah, if Kolb would be unwilling to play as a backup if someone else beat him out of the starter role, I'd let him try to sell his NFL resume somewhere else.
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stchamp98


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Joined: 11 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yibbyl wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Yibbyl wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
We can't plan on starting Kevin Kolb. That's all I know. You can't plan on playing a guy who never starts more than 9 games a year.

But you could renegotiate his contract and have him start initially as the rookie learns the ropes. If the rookie can take over mid-year or earlier, great - if not, you get what you can out of Kolb for the whole season and hope the rookie is ready the following one. And IMHO Kolb would be an excellent backup for some team somewhere...even here. I'd try to restructure and hang on to him one more season or more if the price was right (EDIT) ...assuming he could pass a physical.


Ok but if that rookie is Geno Smith, you really don't want to have him sitting on the bench for the price we'd surely pay. You wank-check that- you need him out there. If Kolb's willing to play backup that's great. If not, you have to move on.

When deciding on a starter, I could care less about who was drafted where, salary, or cost in draft picks.


Fair enough, though I find it hard to believe that our front office and ownership group would agree. I find it hard to believe our coaches would either. If we're paying that price, we're doing it for a reason.
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Yibbyl


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Yibbyl wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Yibbyl wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
We can't plan on starting Kevin Kolb. That's all I know. You can't plan on playing a guy who never starts more than 9 games a year.

But you could renegotiate his contract and have him start initially as the rookie learns the ropes. If the rookie can take over mid-year or earlier, great - if not, you get what you can out of Kolb for the whole season and hope the rookie is ready the following one. And IMHO Kolb would be an excellent backup for some team somewhere...even here. I'd try to restructure and hang on to him one more season or more if the price was right (EDIT) ...assuming he could pass a physical.


Ok but if that rookie is Geno Smith, you really don't want to have him sitting on the bench for the price we'd surely pay. You wank-check that- you need him out there. If Kolb's willing to play backup that's great. If not, you have to move on.

When deciding on a starter, I could care less about who was drafted where, salary, or cost in draft picks.


Fair enough, though I find it hard to believe that our front office and ownership group would agree. I find it hard to believe our coaches would either. If we're paying that price, we're doing it for a reason.

Of course. You're doing it because you have faith in the team's scouts/talent evaluators to accurately evaluate him. However, once you've already spent that cost of acquisition, you don't purposely put the player on the field if you believe he won't give you the best chance at winning. And I'd suggest to you that the current Cardinals staff does agree with me, otherwise Skelton would not have started this season ahead of Kolb on the depth chart!
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stchamp98


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Joined: 11 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yibbyl wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Yibbyl wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Yibbyl wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
We can't plan on starting Kevin Kolb. That's all I know. You can't plan on playing a guy who never starts more than 9 games a year.

But you could renegotiate his contract and have him start initially as the rookie learns the ropes. If the rookie can take over mid-year or earlier, great - if not, you get what you can out of Kolb for the whole season and hope the rookie is ready the following one. And IMHO Kolb would be an excellent backup for some team somewhere...even here. I'd try to restructure and hang on to him one more season or more if the price was right (EDIT) ...assuming he could pass a physical.


Ok but if that rookie is Geno Smith, you really don't want to have him sitting on the bench for the price we'd surely pay. You wank-check that- you need him out there. If Kolb's willing to play backup that's great. If not, you have to move on.

When deciding on a starter, I could care less about who was drafted where, salary, or cost in draft picks.


Fair enough, though I find it hard to believe that our front office and ownership group would agree. I find it hard to believe our coaches would either. If we're paying that price, we're doing it for a reason.

Of course. You're doing it because you have faith in the team's scouts/talent evaluators to accurately evaluate him. However, once you've already spent that cost of acquisition, you don't purposely put the player on the field if you believe he won't give you the best chance at winning. And I'd suggest to you that the current Cardinals staff does agree with me, otherwise Skelton would not have started this season ahead of Kolb on the depth chart!


Bolded: Very different cirumstances, being as this was year two for Kolb and things changed over the course of last seasons play. In year 1, did Kolb come in here and have to compete for the job? No he did not.
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Boise&cards Fan


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Arizona take a rookie QB this year he needs to know he the start from day one. Look at all the team who are taking QB and rolling with them. If Arizona does not take a QB in the draft then Arizona needs to fine another QB to bring in and start. When Arizona gets a new head coach I hope he wants his guy and both Kolb and Skelton are gone. Unless Kolb is fine with being that rookie backup and I'm sure he wont be.
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Cusi10


Joined: 04 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just feel that with levi coming back and us drafting either Jockel or lewan and signing a guard that we would have a pretty solid line and one that will protect kolb. and with a line like that kolb is plenty good enough to start and win us games.

I would rather not give a ransom for a qb that no one thinks is rg3 or luck and make have to give up so many picks.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cusi10 wrote:
I just feel that with levi coming back and us drafting either Jockel or lewan and signing a guard that we would have a pretty solid line and one that will protect kolb. and with a line like that kolb is plenty good enough to start and win us games.

I would rather not give a ransom for a qb that no one thinks is rg3 or luck and make have to give up so many picks.


Bolded: The problem is that isn't true. Kolb has twice suffered injuries that cost him multiple games on plays where he wasn't sacked, brought to the ground or hit hard by an opposing rush defender. This season and last, concussion and the rib injury. Neither had anything to do with protection.

Kolb cannot be trusted to start more than 9 games a season. That's just the way it is. I wish like hell that wasn't the case but it is. If we're planning on 16 games from Kevin Kolb, then we're the sucker in the room.
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Yibbyl


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Yibbyl wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Yibbyl wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Yibbyl wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
We can't plan on starting Kevin Kolb. That's all I know. You can't plan on playing a guy who never starts more than 9 games a year.

But you could renegotiate his contract and have him start initially as the rookie learns the ropes. If the rookie can take over mid-year or earlier, great - if not, you get what you can out of Kolb for the whole season and hope the rookie is ready the following one. And IMHO Kolb would be an excellent backup for some team somewhere...even here. I'd try to restructure and hang on to him one more season or more if the price was right (EDIT) ...assuming he could pass a physical.


Ok but if that rookie is Geno Smith, you really don't want to have him sitting on the bench for the price we'd surely pay. You wank-check that- you need him out there. If Kolb's willing to play backup that's great. If not, you have to move on.

When deciding on a starter, I could care less about who was drafted where, salary, or cost in draft picks.


Fair enough, though I find it hard to believe that our front office and ownership group would agree. I find it hard to believe our coaches would either. If we're paying that price, we're doing it for a reason.

Of course. You're doing it because you have faith in the team's scouts/talent evaluators to accurately evaluate him. However, once you've already spent that cost of acquisition, you don't purposely put the player on the field if you believe he won't give you the best chance at winning. And I'd suggest to you that the current Cardinals staff does agree with me, otherwise Skelton would not have started this season ahead of Kolb on the depth chart!


Bolded: Very different cirumstances, being as this was year two for Kolb and things changed over the course of last seasons play. In year 1, did Kolb come in here and have to compete for the job? No he did not.

I get what you're saying...2nd year even though there was no off-season camp and Kolb only played a partial season. Still, he had an initial shot. Basically, you have a time limit on when a player gets a "free pass" - I don't. Just different ways of looking at it I guess. Also, I actually think Kolb did "compete" in a sense for the starting job last year. IMHO he won it the minute he started diagramming a play and explained what was going on on both side of the LOS. His ability to read pre-snap trumped Skelton's uncertainty in doing that. As it should in most cases.

Further, I think that players are continually compared vs. another, not just from off-season to regular season, but from week to week and even play to play. Is Player A injured? If yes, Player B starts this week as he gives us a better chance. What if Player A has a minor injury, Player B has a serious one, and Player C is healthy? Maybe Player A starts over Player C, since even injured he could perform better. Or is it 3rd and long? Put in the 3rd down back. Again, just a difference in how we see things I guess. So be it.
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