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ktarinze
Joined: 08 Oct 2010
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 Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| rpmwr19 wrote: | | ktarinze wrote: | | I have not seen WR's make QB's better. |
Matt Barkley |
I'm talking more on the NFL level
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arKnaD7
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 1443
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:14 am Post subject: |
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| ktarinze wrote: | | rpmwr19 wrote: | | ktarinze wrote: | | I have not seen WR's make QB's better. |
Matt Barkley |
I'm talking more on the NFL level |
Daunte Culpepper?
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ktarinze
Joined: 08 Oct 2010
Posts: 927
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| arKnaD7 wrote: | | ktarinze wrote: | | rpmwr19 wrote: | | ktarinze wrote: | | I have not seen WR's make QB's better. |
Matt Barkley |
I'm talking more on the NFL level |
Daunte Culpepper? |
Maybe so but I think that injury really messed up his career against carolina. Was never the same after that but I think he might have been able to prove something without moss.
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PurpleMugen
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 3638
Location: Rutgers University
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| ktarinze wrote: | | DJpillz317 wrote: | | vikesnewcoach11 wrote: | | Eric dunn wrote: | | IMO we build the roster up around Christian, draft a WR, G, DT, MLB, S, and maybe CB. And then if Christian still fails next year we know that we need to bring in a new QB. And when that new QB comes in he will have a good team around him. |
Thats what Ive been saying all along!!! Thank you....Im glad someone is seeing the big picture. They arent giving up on him this year no matter how bad he does. Gabbert is even worse and they have yet to give up on him. Ponder is too young and hasnt played enough games to just throw in the towel yet. But either way...great post!! |
100% agree with both you guys too, Ponder is a part of the problem, but a guy like luck is so damn rare, you can't expect to draft a QB who instantly makes your team better. Hell, Luck still has Reggie Wayne (top 15 WR all time), two young beast TEs, and young stud WRs. That whole draft was built around him to succeed from day 1. Even RGIII struggles because he doesn't have many pieces around him. Look at the Giants win tonight. He played good, but not great and wasn't the reason they won the game. It was more that the Giants didn't produce like they should have and had costly penalties.
Sorry, but there's no denying we have the worst WRs in the NFL, awful guards who constantly get dominated in the interior pass rush, and a boneheaded offensive coordinator who can't draw a slant route for god's sake. I remember Ponder's first game against green bay; he was making downfield throws! throwing to open WRs with zip! I was excited! then what the **** happened?! I know he has potential, but he needs help. I see his drive to be successful much more than T-joke. |
I doubt he will be more successful than Tjack. He at least made the playoffs. In the packers game he was his same ponder self. Made some good throws and some horrible throws. Which shows his inconsistency and not only that but it was awhile ago. He has gotten worse and is not progressing at all. I have seen QB's make WR's better. I have not seen WR's make QB's better. |
It's not that this doesn't happen, it's just that it is 10x better when your QB is doing the elevating and not your WRs. Ponder absolutely does not fit the bill in this regard (or in any regard, really; he has regressed horrifyingly and is certainly one of the worst starting QBs in the NFL).
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arKnaD7
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 1443
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| ktarinze wrote: | | arKnaD7 wrote: | | ktarinze wrote: | | rpmwr19 wrote: | | ktarinze wrote: | | I have not seen WR's make QB's better. |
Matt Barkley |
I'm talking more on the NFL level |
Daunte Culpepper? |
Maybe so but I think that injury really messed up his career against carolina. Was never the same after that but I think he might have been able to prove something without moss. |
Culpepper was terrible in 2005 before his injury, coming off a historic season with Moss.
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vikesnewcoach11
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 887
Location: Watertown, New York
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:38 am Post subject: |
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| ktarinze wrote: | | DJpillz317 wrote: | | vikesnewcoach11 wrote: | | Eric dunn wrote: | | IMO we build the roster up around Christian, draft a WR, G, DT, MLB, S, and maybe CB. And then if Christian still fails next year we know that we need to bring in a new QB. And when that new QB comes in he will have a good team around him. |
Thats what Ive been saying all along!!! Thank you....Im glad someone is seeing the big picture. They arent giving up on him this year no matter how bad he does. Gabbert is even worse and they have yet to give up on him. Ponder is too young and hasnt played enough games to just throw in the towel yet. But either way...great post!! |
100% agree with both you guys too, Ponder is a part of the problem, but a guy like luck is so damn rare, you can't expect to draft a QB who instantly makes your team better. Hell, Luck still has Reggie Wayne (top 15 WR all time), two young beast TEs, and young stud WRs. That whole draft was built around him to succeed from day 1. Even RGIII struggles because he doesn't have many pieces around him. Look at the Giants win tonight. He played good, but not great and wasn't the reason they won the game. It was more that the Giants didn't produce like they should have and had costly penalties.
Sorry, but there's no denying we have the worst WRs in the NFL, awful guards who constantly get dominated in the interior pass rush, and a boneheaded offensive coordinator who can't draw a slant route for god's sake. I remember Ponder's first game against green bay; he was making downfield throws! throwing to open WRs with zip! I was excited! then what the **** happened?! I know he has potential, but he needs help. I see his drive to be successful much more than T-joke. |
I doubt he will be more successful than Tjack. He at least made the playoffs. In the packers game he was his same ponder self. Made some good throws and some horrible throws. Which shows his inconsistency and not only that but it was awhile ago. He has gotten worse and is not progressing at all. I have seen QB's make WR's better. I have not seen WR's make QB's better. |
HAHA WOWWW. Jackson was pathetic!!! I really dont want to get into this discussion because I said enough on here a few years ago when he was the starter. Jackson was never successful and never led this team to the playoffs.....he split time with Frerotte that year. AP brought them to the playoffs.
But if you want a fun fact regarding the QB you want to give up on so quickly here you go....
Jackson's first two seasons:
QBR- 66.6
TD:INT ratio- 11:16
Comp %- 58.1
Ponder's first two seasons:
QBR- 74.8
TD:INT ratio- 27:24
Comp %-58.4
All three categories are better than Jackson's and will get better when he gets better WR's and OG's.
To say Ponder currently isnt and wont be more successful than Jackson is ridiculous. Period.
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#41 Mistral Raymond- SS
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ktarinze
Joined: 08 Oct 2010
Posts: 927
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| vikesnewcoach11 wrote: | | ktarinze wrote: | | DJpillz317 wrote: | | vikesnewcoach11 wrote: | | Eric dunn wrote: | | IMO we build the roster up around Christian, draft a WR, G, DT, MLB, S, and maybe CB. And then if Christian still fails next year we know that we need to bring in a new QB. And when that new QB comes in he will have a good team around him. |
Thats what Ive been saying all along!!! Thank you....Im glad someone is seeing the big picture. They arent giving up on him this year no matter how bad he does. Gabbert is even worse and they have yet to give up on him. Ponder is too young and hasnt played enough games to just throw in the towel yet. But either way...great post!! |
100% agree with both you guys too, Ponder is a part of the problem, but a guy like luck is so damn rare, you can't expect to draft a QB who instantly makes your team better. Hell, Luck still has Reggie Wayne (top 15 WR all time), two young beast TEs, and young stud WRs. That whole draft was built around him to succeed from day 1. Even RGIII struggles because he doesn't have many pieces around him. Look at the Giants win tonight. He played good, but not great and wasn't the reason they won the game. It was more that the Giants didn't produce like they should have and had costly penalties.
Sorry, but there's no denying we have the worst WRs in the NFL, awful guards who constantly get dominated in the interior pass rush, and a boneheaded offensive coordinator who can't draw a slant route for god's sake. I remember Ponder's first game against green bay; he was making downfield throws! throwing to open WRs with zip! I was excited! then what the **** happened?! I know he has potential, but he needs help. I see his drive to be successful much more than T-joke. |
I doubt he will be more successful than Tjack. He at least made the playoffs. In the packers game he was his same ponder self. Made some good throws and some horrible throws. Which shows his inconsistency and not only that but it was awhile ago. He has gotten worse and is not progressing at all. I have seen QB's make WR's better. I have not seen WR's make QB's better. |
HAHA WOWWW. Jackson was pathetic!!! I really dont want to get into this discussion because I said enough on here a few years ago when he was the starter. Jackson was never successful and never led this team to the playoffs because he split time with Frerotte that year. AP brought them to the playoffs.
But if you want a fun fact regarding the QB you want to give up on so quickly here you go....
Jackson's first two seasons:
QBR- 66.6
TD:INT ratio- 11:16
Comp %- 58.1
Ponder's first two seasons:
QBR- 74.8
TD:INT ratio- 27:24
Comp %-58.4
All three categories are better than Jackson's and will get better when he gets better WR's and OG's.
To say Ponder currently isnt and wont be more successful than Jackson is ridiculous. Period. |
I'm not arguing for Tjack he was terrible. I'm not defending him I'm just saying so far he is more successful than ponder and I don't see him getting better. There both trash but so far one has gotten to the playoffs and the other one hasn't. To me it's ridiculous to even say that ponder is absolutely better than him when they are both trash, but anyways AD was able to lead us to the playoffs with Tjack ponder right now is so horrible that we won't even make it and AD is having one of his best years. That should tell you how bad he is when the RB averages more than the QB. if you want to use stats. Both are horrible but right now (and probably in the futrue because I don't see ponder getting any better. He is actually regressing than progressing so.......) Tjack is the better QB.
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vikesnewcoach11
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 887
Location: Watertown, New York
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| ktarinze wrote: | | vikesnewcoach11 wrote: | | ktarinze wrote: | | DJpillz317 wrote: | | vikesnewcoach11 wrote: | | Eric dunn wrote: | | IMO we build the roster up around Christian, draft a WR, G, DT, MLB, S, and maybe CB. And then if Christian still fails next year we know that we need to bring in a new QB. And when that new QB comes in he will have a good team around him. |
Thats what Ive been saying all along!!! Thank you....Im glad someone is seeing the big picture. They arent giving up on him this year no matter how bad he does. Gabbert is even worse and they have yet to give up on him. Ponder is too young and hasnt played enough games to just throw in the towel yet. But either way...great post!! |
100% agree with both you guys too, Ponder is a part of the problem, but a guy like luck is so damn rare, you can't expect to draft a QB who instantly makes your team better. Hell, Luck still has Reggie Wayne (top 15 WR all time), two young beast TEs, and young stud WRs. That whole draft was built around him to succeed from day 1. Even RGIII struggles because he doesn't have many pieces around him. Look at the Giants win tonight. He played good, but not great and wasn't the reason they won the game. It was more that the Giants didn't produce like they should have and had costly penalties.
Sorry, but there's no denying we have the worst WRs in the NFL, awful guards who constantly get dominated in the interior pass rush, and a boneheaded offensive coordinator who can't draw a slant route for god's sake. I remember Ponder's first game against green bay; he was making downfield throws! throwing to open WRs with zip! I was excited! then what the **** happened?! I know he has potential, but he needs help. I see his drive to be successful much more than T-joke. |
I doubt he will be more successful than Tjack. He at least made the playoffs. In the packers game he was his same ponder self. Made some good throws and some horrible throws. Which shows his inconsistency and not only that but it was awhile ago. He has gotten worse and is not progressing at all. I have seen QB's make WR's better. I have not seen WR's make QB's better. |
HAHA WOWWW. Jackson was pathetic!!! I really dont want to get into this discussion because I said enough on here a few years ago when he was the starter. Jackson was never successful and never led this team to the playoffs because he split time with Frerotte that year. AP brought them to the playoffs.
But if you want a fun fact regarding the QB you want to give up on so quickly here you go....
Jackson's first two seasons:
QBR- 66.6
TD:INT ratio- 11:16
Comp %- 58.1
Ponder's first two seasons:
QBR- 74.8
TD:INT ratio- 27:24
Comp %-58.4
All three categories are better than Jackson's and will get better when he gets better WR's and OG's.
To say Ponder currently isnt and wont be more successful than Jackson is ridiculous. Period. |
I'm not arguing for Tjack he was terrible. I'm not defending him I'm just saying so far he is more successful than ponder and I don't see him getting better. There both trash but so far one has gotten to the playoffs and the other one hasn't. To me it's ridiculous to even say that ponder is absolutely better than him when they are both trash, but anyways AD was able to lead us to the playoffs with Tjack ponder right now is so horrible that we won't even make it and AD is having one of his best years. That should tell you how bad he is when the RB averages more than the QB. if you want to use stats. Both are horrible but right now (and probably in the futrue because I don't see ponder getting any better. He is actually regressing than progressing so.......) Tjack is the better QB. |
You must have missed the part where I said Jackson DID NOT bring them to the playoffs. Frerotte and him split that year. Remember Ponder has only played 1 and a half seasons and in that time...Ponder has been better than Jackson was in his first two seasons. Your argument is getting nowhere...the stats shows it. And when they went to the playoffs that year...it was Jacksons third year. Ponder hasnt even gotten into his third year yet but still played better than Jackson did within his first two seasons
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Adopt-A-Viking
#41 Mistral Raymond- SS
Tackles: 0 INT's: 0 FF: 0 SACKS: 0 |
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ktarinze
Joined: 08 Oct 2010
Posts: 927
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| vikesnewcoach11 wrote: | | ktarinze wrote: | | vikesnewcoach11 wrote: | | ktarinze wrote: | | DJpillz317 wrote: | | vikesnewcoach11 wrote: | | Eric dunn wrote: | | IMO we build the roster up around Christian, draft a WR, G, DT, MLB, S, and maybe CB. And then if Christian still fails next year we know that we need to bring in a new QB. And when that new QB comes in he will have a good team around him. |
Thats what Ive been saying all along!!! Thank you....Im glad someone is seeing the big picture. They arent giving up on him this year no matter how bad he does. Gabbert is even worse and they have yet to give up on him. Ponder is too young and hasnt played enough games to just throw in the towel yet. But either way...great post!! |
100% agree with both you guys too, Ponder is a part of the problem, but a guy like luck is so damn rare, you can't expect to draft a QB who instantly makes your team better. Hell, Luck still has Reggie Wayne (top 15 WR all time), two young beast TEs, and young stud WRs. That whole draft was built around him to succeed from day 1. Even RGIII struggles because he doesn't have many pieces around him. Look at the Giants win tonight. He played good, but not great and wasn't the reason they won the game. It was more that the Giants didn't produce like they should have and had costly penalties.
Sorry, but there's no denying we have the worst WRs in the NFL, awful guards who constantly get dominated in the interior pass rush, and a boneheaded offensive coordinator who can't draw a slant route for god's sake. I remember Ponder's first game against green bay; he was making downfield throws! throwing to open WRs with zip! I was excited! then what the **** happened?! I know he has potential, but he needs help. I see his drive to be successful much more than T-joke. |
I doubt he will be more successful than Tjack. He at least made the playoffs. In the packers game he was his same ponder self. Made some good throws and some horrible throws. Which shows his inconsistency and not only that but it was awhile ago. He has gotten worse and is not progressing at all. I have seen QB's make WR's better. I have not seen WR's make QB's better. |
HAHA WOWWW. Jackson was pathetic!!! I really dont want to get into this discussion because I said enough on here a few years ago when he was the starter. Jackson was never successful and never led this team to the playoffs because he split time with Frerotte that year. AP brought them to the playoffs.
But if you want a fun fact regarding the QB you want to give up on so quickly here you go....
Jackson's first two seasons:
QBR- 66.6
TD:INT ratio- 11:16
Comp %- 58.1
Ponder's first two seasons:
QBR- 74.8
TD:INT ratio- 27:24
Comp %-58.4
All three categories are better than Jackson's and will get better when he gets better WR's and OG's.
To say Ponder currently isnt and wont be more successful than Jackson is ridiculous. Period. |
I'm not arguing for Tjack he was terrible. I'm not defending him I'm just saying so far he is more successful than ponder and I don't see him getting better. There both trash but so far one has gotten to the playoffs and the other one hasn't. To me it's ridiculous to even say that ponder is absolutely better than him when they are both trash, but anyways AD was able to lead us to the playoffs with Tjack ponder right now is so horrible that we won't even make it and AD is having one of his best years. That should tell you how bad he is when the RB averages more than the QB. if you want to use stats. Both are horrible but right now (and probably in the futrue because I don't see ponder getting any better. He is actually regressing than progressing so.......) Tjack is the better QB. |
You must have missed the part where I said Jackson DID NOT bring them to the playoffs. Frerotte and him split that year. Remember Ponder has only played 1 and a half seasons and in that time...Ponder has been better than Jackson was in his first two seasons. Your argument is getting nowhere...the stats shows it. And when they went to the playoffs that year...it was Jacksons third year. Ponder hasnt even gotten into his third year yet but still played better than Jackson did within his first two seasons |
Please your missing the part as well where I said right now he is. If you want to say that he is better than Tjack whatever they both are horrible so it really dosen't matter. To me Tjack is better than him given the limited time he had. As he was never really given the starting job. Ponder has had the job and has done horrible. Also AD is having arguably one of his best years and he still can't carry this scrub. He was able to carry Tjack for whatever amount of games he played but can't do it for ponder He isn't better to me and if he is to you than whatever. If you think Ponder is insanely better than Tjack than that is blind loyalty. There both horrible and no point to defend either one of them.
Point is both are horrible we need a new QB
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vikesnewcoach11
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 887
Location: Watertown, New York
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| ktarinze wrote: | | vikesnewcoach11 wrote: | | ktarinze wrote: | | vikesnewcoach11 wrote: | | ktarinze wrote: | | DJpillz317 wrote: | | vikesnewcoach11 wrote: | | Eric dunn wrote: | | IMO we build the roster up around Christian, draft a WR, G, DT, MLB, S, and maybe CB. And then if Christian still fails next year we know that we need to bring in a new QB. And when that new QB comes in he will have a good team around him. |
Thats what Ive been saying all along!!! Thank you....Im glad someone is seeing the big picture. They arent giving up on him this year no matter how bad he does. Gabbert is even worse and they have yet to give up on him. Ponder is too young and hasnt played enough games to just throw in the towel yet. But either way...great post!! |
100% agree with both you guys too, Ponder is a part of the problem, but a guy like luck is so damn rare, you can't expect to draft a QB who instantly makes your team better. Hell, Luck still has Reggie Wayne (top 15 WR all time), two young beast TEs, and young stud WRs. That whole draft was built around him to succeed from day 1. Even RGIII struggles because he doesn't have many pieces around him. Look at the Giants win tonight. He played good, but not great and wasn't the reason they won the game. It was more that the Giants didn't produce like they should have and had costly penalties.
Sorry, but there's no denying we have the worst WRs in the NFL, awful guards who constantly get dominated in the interior pass rush, and a boneheaded offensive coordinator who can't draw a slant route for god's sake. I remember Ponder's first game against green bay; he was making downfield throws! throwing to open WRs with zip! I was excited! then what the **** happened?! I know he has potential, but he needs help. I see his drive to be successful much more than T-joke. |
I doubt he will be more successful than Tjack. He at least made the playoffs. In the packers game he was his same ponder self. Made some good throws and some horrible throws. Which shows his inconsistency and not only that but it was awhile ago. He has gotten worse and is not progressing at all. I have seen QB's make WR's better. I have not seen WR's make QB's better. |
HAHA WOWWW. Jackson was pathetic!!! I really dont want to get into this discussion because I said enough on here a few years ago when he was the starter. Jackson was never successful and never led this team to the playoffs because he split time with Frerotte that year. AP brought them to the playoffs.
But if you want a fun fact regarding the QB you want to give up on so quickly here you go....
Jackson's first two seasons:
QBR- 66.6
TD:INT ratio- 11:16
Comp %- 58.1
Ponder's first two seasons:
QBR- 74.8
TD:INT ratio- 27:24
Comp %-58.4
All three categories are better than Jackson's and will get better when he gets better WR's and OG's.
To say Ponder currently isnt and wont be more successful than Jackson is ridiculous. Period. |
I'm not arguing for Tjack he was terrible. I'm not defending him I'm just saying so far he is more successful than ponder and I don't see him getting better. There both trash but so far one has gotten to the playoffs and the other one hasn't. To me it's ridiculous to even say that ponder is absolutely better than him when they are both trash, but anyways AD was able to lead us to the playoffs with Tjack ponder right now is so horrible that we won't even make it and AD is having one of his best years. That should tell you how bad he is when the RB averages more than the QB. if you want to use stats. Both are horrible but right now (and probably in the futrue because I don't see ponder getting any better. He is actually regressing than progressing so.......) Tjack is the better QB. |
You must have missed the part where I said Jackson DID NOT bring them to the playoffs. Frerotte and him split that year. Remember Ponder has only played 1 and a half seasons and in that time...Ponder has been better than Jackson was in his first two seasons. Your argument is getting nowhere...the stats shows it. And when they went to the playoffs that year...it was Jacksons third year. Ponder hasnt even gotten into his third year yet but still played better than Jackson did within his first two seasons |
Please your missing the part as well where I said right now he is. If you want to say that he is better than Tjack whatever they both are horrible so it really dosen't matter. To me Tjack is better than him given the limited time he had. As he was never really given the starting job. Ponder has had the job and has done horrible. Also AD is having arguably one of his best years and he still can't carry this scrub. He was able to carry Tjack for whatever amount of games he played but can't do it for ponder He isn't better to me and if he is to you than whatever. If you think Ponder is insanely better than Tjack than that is blind loyalty. There both horrible and no point to defend either one of them.
Point is both are horrible we need a new QB |
Point 1: You say Jackson was given limited time but Ponder has only played 22 games first of all. Second, you say Ponder has HAD the job...yeah for 22 games...not 122. Bottom line is its too early to pull him. He will be the starter in 2013 so deal with it. You saying we need a new QB isnt going to do a thing.
Point 2: I never said Ponder was INSANELY better than Jackson...but he's better. He's still learning and needs certain players around him. So you can forget the "blind loyalty" youre talking about.
Either way, Im getting sick of arguing with you because for some reason you cant accept the fact that he will be our starter for the rest of this year and next year. Your comparisons are really making no sense. But im done with this because you obviously arent understanding the reality of things.
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Adopt-A-Viking
#41 Mistral Raymond- SS
Tackles: 0 INT's: 0 FF: 0 SACKS: 0 |
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ktarinze
Joined: 08 Oct 2010
Posts: 927
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| vikesnewcoach11 wrote: | | ktarinze wrote: | | vikesnewcoach11 wrote: | | ktarinze wrote: | | vikesnewcoach11 wrote: | | ktarinze wrote: | | DJpillz317 wrote: | | vikesnewcoach11 wrote: | | Eric dunn wrote: | | IMO we build the roster up around Christian, draft a WR, G, DT, MLB, S, and maybe CB. And then if Christian still fails next year we know that we need to bring in a new QB. And when that new QB comes in he will have a good team around him. |
Thats what Ive been saying all along!!! Thank you....Im glad someone is seeing the big picture. They arent giving up on him this year no matter how bad he does. Gabbert is even worse and they have yet to give up on him. Ponder is too young and hasnt played enough games to just throw in the towel yet. But either way...great post!! |
100% agree with both you guys too, Ponder is a part of the problem, but a guy like luck is so damn rare, you can't expect to draft a QB who instantly makes your team better. Hell, Luck still has Reggie Wayne (top 15 WR all time), two young beast TEs, and young stud WRs. That whole draft was built around him to succeed from day 1. Even RGIII struggles because he doesn't have many pieces around him. Look at the Giants win tonight. He played good, but not great and wasn't the reason they won the game. It was more that the Giants didn't produce like they should have and had costly penalties.
Sorry, but there's no denying we have the worst WRs in the NFL, awful guards who constantly get dominated in the interior pass rush, and a boneheaded offensive coordinator who can't draw a slant route for god's sake. I remember Ponder's first game against green bay; he was making downfield throws! throwing to open WRs with zip! I was excited! then what the **** happened?! I know he has potential, but he needs help. I see his drive to be successful much more than T-joke. |
I doubt he will be more successful than Tjack. He at least made the playoffs. In the packers game he was his same ponder self. Made some good throws and some horrible throws. Which shows his inconsistency and not only that but it was awhile ago. He has gotten worse and is not progressing at all. I have seen QB's make WR's better. I have not seen WR's make QB's better. |
HAHA WOWWW. Jackson was pathetic!!! I really dont want to get into this discussion because I said enough on here a few years ago when he was the starter. Jackson was never successful and never led this team to the playoffs because he split time with Frerotte that year. AP brought them to the playoffs.
But if you want a fun fact regarding the QB you want to give up on so quickly here you go....
Jackson's first two seasons:
QBR- 66.6
TD:INT ratio- 11:16
Comp %- 58.1
Ponder's first two seasons:
QBR- 74.8
TD:INT ratio- 27:24
Comp %-58.4
All three categories are better than Jackson's and will get better when he gets better WR's and OG's.
To say Ponder currently isnt and wont be more successful than Jackson is ridiculous. Period. |
I'm not arguing for Tjack he was terrible. I'm not defending him I'm just saying so far he is more successful than ponder and I don't see him getting better. There both trash but so far one has gotten to the playoffs and the other one hasn't. To me it's ridiculous to even say that ponder is absolutely better than him when they are both trash, but anyways AD was able to lead us to the playoffs with Tjack ponder right now is so horrible that we won't even make it and AD is having one of his best years. That should tell you how bad he is when the RB averages more than the QB. if you want to use stats. Both are horrible but right now (and probably in the futrue because I don't see ponder getting any better. He is actually regressing than progressing so.......) Tjack is the better QB. |
You must have missed the part where I said Jackson DID NOT bring them to the playoffs. Frerotte and him split that year. Remember Ponder has only played 1 and a half seasons and in that time...Ponder has been better than Jackson was in his first two seasons. Your argument is getting nowhere...the stats shows it. And when they went to the playoffs that year...it was Jacksons third year. Ponder hasnt even gotten into his third year yet but still played better than Jackson did within his first two seasons |
Please your missing the part as well where I said right now he is. If you want to say that he is better than Tjack whatever they both are horrible so it really dosen't matter. To me Tjack is better than him given the limited time he had. As he was never really given the starting job. Ponder has had the job and has done horrible. Also AD is having arguably one of his best years and he still can't carry this scrub. He was able to carry Tjack for whatever amount of games he played but can't do it for ponder He isn't better to me and if he is to you than whatever. If you think Ponder is insanely better than Tjack than that is blind loyalty. There both horrible and no point to defend either one of them.
Point is both are horrible we need a new QB |
Point 1: You say Jackson was given limited time but Ponder has only played 22 games first of all. Second, you say Ponder has HAD the job...yeah for 22 games...not 122. Bottom line is its too early to pull him. He will be the starter in 2013 so deal with it. You saying we need a new QB isnt going to do a thing.
Point 2: I never said Ponder was INSANELY better than Jackson...but he's better. He's still learning and needs certain players around him. So you can forget the "blind loyalty" youre talking about.
Either way, Im getting sick of arguing with you because for some reason you cant accept the fact that he will be our starter for the rest of this year and next year. Your comparisons are really making no sense. But im done with this because you obviously arent understanding the reality of things. |
Point 1: Both had limited time and I said both suck so what is your point there. One made the playoffs and the other has not. One played in a playoff game one hasn't very simple as to say why I would think one is better, and I know your going to say it was because of AD....... Well he can't do it for the scrub we have now and this might be his best year. I mean peterson is averaging more than ponder is throwing and that is a shame. Like I said both suck but don't understand where your going with this. I have already given up on this year and know he will be the starting QB this year so don't know where your getting that I don't understand that. As for next year that is not a fact that he is going to be starting next year. There are a lot of things that can happen. Coach could get fired and a new coach might want a different QB. Gm gets fired and we bring another QB in, or Leslie finally wakes up and makes a change.
Point 2: Which is my point you say he is better I say he isn't. Both suck it's like talking about russell and ryan leaf. One does it matter who is better and two is there a huge difference between them
I'm getting sick and tired of this as well and am done arguing who is better because both suck and are not worth any more time. I don't know where you got this from that I was comparing the two because I wasn't. You just jumped to Ponder's defense when I said Jackson was better. So I understand what is going on completely I just don't accept going along with scrub QB's like others do.
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All in for the underdog vikings making a push this season. |
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PaulWall_23
Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 2498
Location: Mil,Wisc
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:47 am Post subject: |
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WR's need to shoulder accountability on the drop balls but the whole "getting open" bit I don't buy.
Good QB's make bad-average WR's better.
Brett Favre hits Greg Lewis for a game winner.
Every time Peyton Manning plays he can roll Brandon Stockley off the couch.
More recently, Golden Tate was considered a bust untill Russel Wilson comes.
This whole passing game fiasco I blame 70% on Ponder, 20% on Musgrave and 10% on WR's. |
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PrplChilPill
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 7831
Location: SLP, MN
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:23 am Post subject: |
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This thread needs longer quotes in each response.... 
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Wins are a team stat, not a QB stat |
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ktarinze
Joined: 08 Oct 2010
Posts: 927
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| PaulWall_23 wrote: | WR's need to shoulder accountability on the drop balls but the whole "getting open" bit I don't buy.
Good QB's make bad-average WR's better.
Brett Favre hits Greg Lewis for a game winner.
Every time Peyton Manning plays he can roll Brandon Stockley off the couch.
More recently, Golden Tate was considered a bust untill Russel Wilson comes.
This whole passing game fiasco I blame 70% on Ponder, 20% on Musgrave and 10% on WR's. |
Thats about right to me
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All in for the underdog vikings making a push this season. |
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CriminalMind
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
Posts: 2986
Location: Toronto, CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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I hope we build our defense in the draft.
A good QB can make bad WRs look good
An average QB can make bad WRs look solid
An bad QB can make bad WRs look bad
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