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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^You can say all of that without the vulgarity. We get you're upset, as is everyone else. I have no issue with what you said, just how you said it.
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packerbacker87


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brawl.kc wrote:
I didn't come on yesterday purposefully. Now that some of the details have been fleshed out and my own sources have added some things for me, there is more reason to worry about the future of the orphaned child than the memory of Mr. Belcher.

I feel for all of his co-workers who lost somebody that they spent so much time with -- but his act was of cowardice, selfishness, and hatefulness. The team and the fan-base needs to heal, but we shouldn't feel bad for the perpetrator of this heinous act. The family of the victim, and the poor little girl who lost both of her parents yesterday -- that's who we should be rallying behind.

We all love this game, but at the end of the day, it is JUST a game. This is life, and its real and its forever. In the end, our actions define us. His have defined him.


Well said. Its a terrible situation, but this statement really sums it up.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know I've had quite a few back and forths with some Chiefs fans, but I come bearing peace.

Wanted to say that I'm sorry y'all have to go through this situation and deal with the who gamut of emotions. It's not easy as a fan, or as a person to rationalize feelings that this drums up. I'm not a Chiefs fan, but this transcends sports.

Congratulations on the win today. Not a doubt in my mind that you guys were going to win today, honestly. Never underestimate the power of raw emotion.

I know Romeo draws a lot of people's ire in Chief land, but they way he has handled the situation, including his presser, is just pure class, and I can see why players respect the hell out of the guy, especially as a person. What Brady Quinn said hit me pretty hard, and again, whether or not you like him as a player, his words reflected how great of a person he is. W/L record aside, you all should be proud to have that caliber of individual standing in front of the world and representing your team at it's darkest hour.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not really sure that being proud is the right emotion, but even as a Jaguars fan, I felt a sense of pride with how the Chiefs organization handled the whole situation. The moment of silence for the victims of domestic violence, even as simple of an act as it was, came across incredibly powerful. The way coaches and players reacted...the way they carried themselves and acted really just showcases the incredible character that many of them have.

The team seemed to rally together and play inspired football. And not that the tragic event itself was inspiring, but the notion that nothing in life is promised, that everything can change and be taken from you in the blink of an eye along with heavy hearts seemingly drove the team to play hard. As Ray Lewis asked of the Stanford basketball team, "If tomorrow wasn't promised, what would you give for today?"

You guys are 2-10, and I know how much that stings (so are my Jaguars), but with the way that the community and team rallied together and united because of this awful tragedy, you guys have a lot to be proud of that far transcends the game of football.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets try to keep this thread just about the shooting in general (although at this point, is there anything new to say?), and if you want to discuss how this affects the team in a football sense, please go HERE.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps the one thing I'm happiest about regarding this whole thing is that a fund is being set up for Zoey. I think it's great the Chiefs players are going to do that, and if the front office were to toss some money in, that'd be stellar.
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KC_Guy


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you consider the Chiefs a family, how about this:

Jamal Charles' wife was a cousin to Kasandra Perkins (Belcher's girlfriend):

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/12/03/3946635/jamaal-charles-and-kassandra-perkins.html
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good deal more information in this article from the Star - http://www.kansascity.com/2012/12/04/3946159/belcher-shot-himself-as-kc-police.html#storylink=omni_popular

I again ask that we not speculate any further. There are still a lot of gaps to be filled, and we shouldn't feel obliged to try and do that.
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Arrowhead86


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Police cam videos of the night before and the day of.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2012/12/8/3742890/jovan-belcher-police-videos-released

Two thoughts here:

I understand why they were so accommodating with Jovan the night before, I mean he was being cooperative and all. However considering how long it took to even get him communicating - I wish they would have excercises a little bit stricter policy. Certainly that's hindsight and I DO NOT blame the police for how they handled this stop.

2nd thought.. the drive on the day of video was so rough. Knowing what had already transpired and knowing what was moments away from happening is just.. chilling. However I do have a slight issue with this video. The cop mentioned the sirens at the end and to cut them off (like he had already), I wonder had Jovan actually been confronted and handled by the police before having the chance to end his life would things have been different? Maybe not. Maybe they'd have gone worse. I don't know but I do know that the story was told, Jovan heard the sirens.. saw the police.. took a few steps and ended his life. Again not really blaming the police for this mistake but I do believe it was a mistake to have those sirens audible as they neared the facility.

Tough to watch all this. My heart still breaks for all involved and Chiefs nation.
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pnies20


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arrowhead86 wrote:
Police cam videos of the night before and the day of.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2012/12/8/3742890/jovan-belcher-police-videos-released

Two thoughts here:

I understand why they were so accommodating with Jovan the night before, I mean he was being cooperative and all. However considering how long it took to even get him communicating - I wish they would have excercises a little bit stricter policy. Certainly that's hindsight and I DO NOT blame the police for how they handled this stop.

2nd thought.. the drive on the day of video was so rough. Knowing what had already transpired and knowing what was moments away from happening is just.. chilling. However I do have a slight issue with this video. The cop mentioned the sirens at the end and to cut them off (like he had already), I wonder had Jovan actually been confronted and handled by the police before having the chance to end his life would things have been different? Maybe not. Maybe they'd have gone worse. I don't know but I do know that the story was told, Jovan heard the sirens.. saw the police.. took a few steps and ended his life. Again not really blaming the police for this mistake but I do believe it was a mistake to have those sirens audible as they neared the facility.

Tough to watch all this. My heart still breaks for all involved and Chiefs nation.


So... What mistake did the police make?
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Arrowhead86


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pnies20 wrote:
Arrowhead86 wrote:
Police cam videos of the night before and the day of.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2012/12/8/3742890/jovan-belcher-police-videos-released

Two thoughts here:

I understand why they were so accommodating with Jovan the night before, I mean he was being cooperative and all. However considering how long it took to even get him communicating - I wish they would have excercises a little bit stricter policy. Certainly that's hindsight and I DO NOT blame the police for how they handled this stop.

2nd thought.. the drive on the day of video was so rough. Knowing what had already transpired and knowing what was moments away from happening is just.. chilling. However I do have a slight issue with this video. The cop mentioned the sirens at the end and to cut them off (like he had already), I wonder had Jovan actually been confronted and handled by the police before having the chance to end his life would things have been different? Maybe not. Maybe they'd have gone worse. I don't know but I do know that the story was told, Jovan heard the sirens.. saw the police.. took a few steps and ended his life. Again not really blaming the police for this mistake but I do believe it was a mistake to have those sirens audible as they neared the facility.

Tough to watch all this. My heart still breaks for all involved and Chiefs nation.


So... What mistake did the police make?


Seriously? I mean are you really asking or are you asking in an effort to counter point? Because I literally wrote and you quoted:

Quote:
Again not really blaming the police for this mistake but I do believe it was a mistake to have those sirens audible as they neared the facility.

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pnies20


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arrowhead86 wrote:
pnies20 wrote:
Arrowhead86 wrote:
Police cam videos of the night before and the day of.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2012/12/8/3742890/jovan-belcher-police-videos-released

Two thoughts here:

I understand why they were so accommodating with Jovan the night before, I mean he was being cooperative and all. However considering how long it took to even get him communicating - I wish they would have excercises a little bit stricter policy. Certainly that's hindsight and I DO NOT blame the police for how they handled this stop.

2nd thought.. the drive on the day of video was so rough. Knowing what had already transpired and knowing what was moments away from happening is just.. chilling. However I do have a slight issue with this video. The cop mentioned the sirens at the end and to cut them off (like he had already), I wonder had Jovan actually been confronted and handled by the police before having the chance to end his life would things have been different? Maybe not. Maybe they'd have gone worse. I don't know but I do know that the story was told, Jovan heard the sirens.. saw the police.. took a few steps and ended his life. Again not really blaming the police for this mistake but I do believe it was a mistake to have those sirens audible as they neared the facility.

Tough to watch all this. My heart still breaks for all involved and Chiefs nation.


So... What mistake did the police make?


Seriously? I mean are you really asking or are you asking in an effort to counter point? Because I literally wrote and you quoted:

Quote:
Again not really blaming the police for this mistake but I do believe it was a mistake to have those sirens audible as they neared the facility.


So you would have the police proceed to a call where a man has a pistol out without lights and sirens?
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Arrowhead86


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pnies20 wrote:
Arrowhead86 wrote:
pnies20 wrote:
Arrowhead86 wrote:
Police cam videos of the night before and the day of.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2012/12/8/3742890/jovan-belcher-police-videos-released

Two thoughts here:

I understand why they were so accommodating with Jovan the night before, I mean he was being cooperative and all. However considering how long it took to even get him communicating - I wish they would have excercises a little bit stricter policy. Certainly that's hindsight and I DO NOT blame the police for how they handled this stop.

2nd thought.. the drive on the day of video was so rough. Knowing what had already transpired and knowing what was moments away from happening is just.. chilling. However I do have a slight issue with this video. The cop mentioned the sirens at the end and to cut them off (like he had already), I wonder had Jovan actually been confronted and handled by the police before having the chance to end his life would things have been different? Maybe not. Maybe they'd have gone worse. I don't know but I do know that the story was told, Jovan heard the sirens.. saw the police.. took a few steps and ended his life. Again not really blaming the police for this mistake but I do believe it was a mistake to have those sirens audible as they neared the facility.

Tough to watch all this. My heart still breaks for all involved and Chiefs nation.


So... What mistake did the police make?


Seriously? I mean are you really asking or are you asking in an effort to counter point? Because I literally wrote and you quoted:

Quote:
Again not really blaming the police for this mistake but I do believe it was a mistake to have those sirens audible as they neared the facility.


So you would have the police proceed to a call where a man has a pistol out without lights and sirens?


Did you watch the video? Ya know.. where the policeman turned off his sirens to avoid agitating the situation futher.. or.. how about when he mentioned to HIS FELLOW OFFICERS to turn of THEIR sirens because he could hear them at the facility.

Short answer, yes. In this type situation it is absolutely beneficial to roll in without the sirens blaring to avoid escalating the situation further.

AND it's quite common to do so. Really not sure why you've focused on this.
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pnies20


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arrowhead86 wrote:
pnies20 wrote:
Arrowhead86 wrote:
pnies20 wrote:
Arrowhead86 wrote:
Police cam videos of the night before and the day of.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2012/12/8/3742890/jovan-belcher-police-videos-released

Two thoughts here:

I understand why they were so accommodating with Jovan the night before, I mean he was being cooperative and all. However considering how long it took to even get him communicating - I wish they would have excercises a little bit stricter policy. Certainly that's hindsight and I DO NOT blame the police for how they handled this stop.

2nd thought.. the drive on the day of video was so rough. Knowing what had already transpired and knowing what was moments away from happening is just.. chilling. However I do have a slight issue with this video. The cop mentioned the sirens at the end and to cut them off (like he had already), I wonder had Jovan actually been confronted and handled by the police before having the chance to end his life would things have been different? Maybe not. Maybe they'd have gone worse. I don't know but I do know that the story was told, Jovan heard the sirens.. saw the police.. took a few steps and ended his life. Again not really blaming the police for this mistake but I do believe it was a mistake to have those sirens audible as they neared the facility.

Tough to watch all this. My heart still breaks for all involved and Chiefs nation.


So... What mistake did the police make?


Seriously? I mean are you really asking or are you asking in an effort to counter point? Because I literally wrote and you quoted:

Quote:
Again not really blaming the police for this mistake but I do believe it was a mistake to have those sirens audible as they neared the facility.


So you would have the police proceed to a call where a man has a pistol out without lights and sirens?


Did you watch the video? Ya know.. where the policeman turned off his sirens to avoid agitating the situation futher.. or.. how about when he mentioned to HIS FELLOW OFFICERS to turn of THEIR sirens because he could hear them at the facility.

Short answer, yes. In this type situation it is absolutely beneficial to roll in without the sirens blaring to avoid escalating the situation further.

AND it's quite common to do so. Really not sure why you've focused on this.


I didn't see any cars at the scene with their sirens on. I heard cars coming from a ways off with their sirens on.

I don't understand why you're getting so upset. Just asked what mistake they made.

Their concern shouldn't be "I better turn my siren off because I might upset a fleeing felon" it's "I'm keeping my siren on so that I can get there ASAP" to say that an officers siren was responsible for a crazed gunman ending his life or exacerbating the circumstances is ludicrous.
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Arrowhead86


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pnies20 wrote:
Arrowhead86 wrote:
pnies20 wrote:
Arrowhead86 wrote:
pnies20 wrote:
Arrowhead86 wrote:
Police cam videos of the night before and the day of.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2012/12/8/3742890/jovan-belcher-police-videos-released

Two thoughts here:

I understand why they were so accommodating with Jovan the night before, I mean he was being cooperative and all. However considering how long it took to even get him communicating - I wish they would have excercises a little bit stricter policy. Certainly that's hindsight and I DO NOT blame the police for how they handled this stop.

2nd thought.. the drive on the day of video was so rough. Knowing what had already transpired and knowing what was moments away from happening is just.. chilling. However I do have a slight issue with this video. The cop mentioned the sirens at the end and to cut them off (like he had already), I wonder had Jovan actually been confronted and handled by the police before having the chance to end his life would things have been different? Maybe not. Maybe they'd have gone worse. I don't know but I do know that the story was told, Jovan heard the sirens.. saw the police.. took a few steps and ended his life. Again not really blaming the police for this mistake but I do believe it was a mistake to have those sirens audible as they neared the facility.

Tough to watch all this. My heart still breaks for all involved and Chiefs nation.


So... What mistake did the police make?


Seriously? I mean are you really asking or are you asking in an effort to counter point? Because I literally wrote and you quoted:

Quote:
Again not really blaming the police for this mistake but I do believe it was a mistake to have those sirens audible as they neared the facility.


So you would have the police proceed to a call where a man has a pistol out without lights and sirens?


Did you watch the video? Ya know.. where the policeman turned off his sirens to avoid agitating the situation futher.. or.. how about when he mentioned to HIS FELLOW OFFICERS to turn of THEIR sirens because he could hear them at the facility.

Short answer, yes. In this type situation it is absolutely beneficial to roll in without the sirens blaring to avoid escalating the situation further.

AND it's quite common to do so. Really not sure why you've focused on this.


I didn't see any cars at the scene with their sirens on. I heard cars coming from a ways off with their sirens on.

I don't understand why you're getting so upset. Just asked what mistake they made.

Their concern shouldn't be "I better turn my siren off because I might upset a fleeing felon" it's "I'm keeping my siren on so that I can get there ASAP" to say that an officers siren was responsible for a crazed gunman ending his life or exacerbating the circumstances is ludicrous.


Well I'm frustrated because until this last post you haven't even stated a position, you've just asked leading questions in some counterpoint context.

Now, I agree it would be ludicrous to say they were responsible, good thing I did not say that right?

And their concern was not JUST about the "crazed gunman" but the others present as well. That's why the officer said he could hear them and said turn them off. Jovan might have responded a number of different ways feeling the net closing in with those sirens or had he not heard them at all and still been talking.

That all said and regardless of Belcher's horrific crimes, their number 1 priority upon arriving at the scene at Arrowhead was NO MORE LOSS OF LIFE. I'm want to speculate you're implying you no longer cared about Belcher's life at this point because of what he did.. but maybe that's a leap on taking from this discussion.

His life, wrecked as it was, was worth saving though if possible. It's pretty standard to silence the sirens to prevent further escalating this type of situation.. and as the story goes in this case.. he heard the sirens.. said goodbye.. moved behind his vehicle.. and took his life before they arrived.

On top of that.. we're speaking about the SIRENS not the LIGHTS flashing. The en route police would certainly continue to have the LIGHTS on to clear traffic as they were traveling to the stadium.

As I said in my ORIGINAL post though.. I do not BLAME the police for the outcome but do view this aspect as a mistake.
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