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| Where does Stafford rank? |
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| top 10 |
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58% |
[ 17 ] |
| top 15 |
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34% |
[ 10 ] |
| back 16 |
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6% |
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| Total Votes : 29 |
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Sllim Pickens
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 17406
Location: Middle of the Mitten
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 Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see guys like Rivers, Romo, Schaub, or Cutler ahead of Stafford. As frustrated as people get about Stafford being inconsistent, those guys are the trend setters in that department. You could even put Eli in that category but he has benefited of winning (even though his D and run game carried him to the champs).
I think Luck is being vastly underrated in this thread. People mention Wlson and RG3 yet Luck is IMO much better than either of those.
Another sorely underrated QB is Andy Dalton. I would take him over Rivers, Romo and Schaub right now. His numbers aren't gaudy but he is smart and wins.
I would have stafford in the 5-10 range and closer to 5 probably. I also would only rather have Luck or Rodgers going forward.
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skatebeanz
Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 17513
Location: Jamison. on the Sweet-sig.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| diehardlionfan wrote: | That's your opinion and your welcome to it. I obviously disagree.
Stafford in my opinion isn't top 10 but unlike your response I don't state it as fact.
Cutler is having an average year yet he leads Stafford in QB rating, yards per attempt and completion percentage. Detroit has a better offensive line which helps Stafford.
If you notice I had Cutler ranked just ahead of Stafford. If your being objective you would have to acknowledge Cutlers average year is better than Staffords average year which would hardly support your statement that Stafford is top 10. |
So you need someone to state everything they say as opinion or you think it is being said as fact? Cutler has a vastly better running game and Stafford is being asked to carry the load.
If you want to count average: Cutler has his average passer rating for his career this season. Staffords average passer rating is tied with Cutlers. So their average is the same thanks.
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| detfan782004 wrote: | | If he [Ansah] doesn't exceed career sacks this year I'm calling it a bust, all 4.5 |
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diehardlionfan
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 21986
Location: Ottawa
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| skatebeanz wrote: | | diehardlionfan wrote: | That's your opinion and your welcome to it. I obviously disagree.
Stafford in my opinion isn't top 10 but unlike your response I don't state it as fact.
Cutler is having an average year yet he leads Stafford in QB rating, yards per attempt and completion percentage. Detroit has a better offensive line which helps Stafford.
If you notice I had Cutler ranked just ahead of Stafford. If your being objective you would have to acknowledge Cutlers average year is better than Staffords average year which would hardly support your statement that Stafford is top 10. |
So you need someone to state everything they say as opinion or you think it is being said as fact? Cutler has a vastly better running game and Stafford is being asked to carry the load.
If you want to count average: Cutler has his average passer rating for his career this season. Staffords average passer rating is tied with Cutlers. So their average is the same thanks. |
Like I said beans you make the case for Stafford being average, nothing more.
As for Stafford having to do it on his own he has a far better oline and a teammate named CJ. You remember him don't you?
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Last edited by diehardlionfan on Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lions017
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 4367
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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I don't have a list of rankings, but I'd say in the 8-12 range. When he's on he's as good as anyone, but he isn't consistent enough yet.
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diehardlionfan
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 21986
Location: Ottawa
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Sllim Pickens wrote: | I don't see guys like Rivers, Romo, Schaub, or Cutler ahead of Stafford. As frustrated as people get about Stafford being inconsistent, those guys are the trend setters in that department. You could even put Eli in that category but he has benefited of winning (even though his D and run game carried him to the champs).
I think Luck is being vastly underrated in this thread. People mention Wlson and RG3 yet Luck is IMO much better than either of those.
Another sorely underrated QB is Andy Dalton. I would take him over Rivers, Romo and Schaub right now. His numbers aren't gaudy but he is smart and wins.
I would have stafford in the 5-10 range and closer to 5 probably. I also would only rather have Luck or Rodgers going forward. |
I didn't mention Luck simply because of significant consistency issues. He has lots of potential. At this point amongst the rookies his numbers are simply pedestrian by comparison.
As for the others you may well be right but amongst the inconsistent QB's in the league the others all have higher completion percentages, yards per attempt and QBR.
Stats aren't everything but they serve as reinforcement for what we see and I certainly don't see a QB in Stafford that is close to top five. Other than his total yards which are nothing more than the result of his huge number of passing attempts he is totally average. In fact statistically its hard to make a case for him in the top 15.
Lion fans are always pointing out the benefit QB's receive from their supporting cast but Stafford is afforded effective pass blocking and has the greatest wide receiver in the game and possibly the best in history.
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LION KING
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 15525
Location: THE U.P. MICHIGAN
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:04 am Post subject: |
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I love the ELI Manning love you take the championships away from his great defense and he gets nothing really never liked him as a QB!
Stafford is top 10 in talent alone you still have to have all the parts even the great Tom Brady hasn't won a Super bowl in his last two trips because his defense failed him or his kicker didn't get a chance at a winning field goal.
I think the great word is linked to much to actually winning a Super bowl.
I will never agree with ELI being better then his brother no way!
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detfan782004
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 40108
Location: Montana
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:06 am Post subject: |
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Fringe 10
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ManeLine
Joined: 22 Jul 2011
Posts: 3706
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:11 am Post subject: |
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What do you guys think about this article?
| Quote: | Footwork is the most critical component to the play of a quarterback. Working from under center provides a passer with a sense of rhythm and timing that makes a passing game go. When a quarterback hits his third, fifth or seventh step, his eyes are geared to work in unison with the progression of each route, allowing a passer to set quickly and dump the ball if he sees a blitz coming on his first step or hit his seventh step and uncork it to a deep layer.
In the shotgun, a quarterback’s footwork is not natural. As defenses are shifting into coverage from disguised looks, a shotgun passer must drop his eyes from reading the field to catching the ball and back to the field again while turning his body and getting into throwing position. In that fraction of a second, as a quarterback is looking to get the grip on the ball and redirect his eyes, a lot can happen. Disguised coverages can show and already tight windows can close. On Sunday, Colts OLB Robert Mathis fell back into coverage against the Lions in that short span, directly into Matthew Stafford’s throwing lane. However, the fourth-year passer never saw Mathis as he caught the ball from the shotgun snap and immediately whipped a pass toward Brandon Pettigrew. The result was an easy interception for Mathis.
The integrity of quarterbacking mechanics has slipped in the NFL this season, and one of the chief culprits has been the proliferation of spread, shotgun offenses. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady can shift their feet quickly from the gun, but their mechanics are well-drilled from more than a decade of work and they are two of the game’s all-time great technicians. For younger quarterbacks such as Stafford, Jay Cutler, Cam Newton and even Aaron Rodgers, who started off the season very slowly, the prevalence of shotgun attacks has begun to erode NFL passing games, destroy the mechanics of its passers and diminish the quality of the product on the field.
Scott Linehan’s offense, though he will mix up some run-pass tendencies, is very predictable. When Stafford sets under center, odds are very high it will be a run, as the Lions did 17 of the 25 times that Stafford took the snap from center against Indianapolis. When Stafford lines up in the shotgun, odds are very high that he is throwing the ball, giving Mathis, Dwight Freeney and all oncoming rushers a very good idea where the launch point will be and allowing them to pin back their ears and fly off the snap with more abandon, generally knowing where the pocket will form.
Stafford is a gunslinger, and though he often slings the ball with a sidearm motion to advantageously find an open throwing window, his mechanics have tended to get more disjointed and out of rhythm because he is in the shotgun for 25-plus snaps per game. The shotgun can be very useful in 3rd-and-8 situations, but when it comes to quick-hitting routes, the shotgun disrupts the rhythm of a normal route tree and produces a lot of drops, a byproduct heavily afflicting the Lions against the Colts. It's no accident that the Lions currently lead the league in drops, where they stand in a category of their own.
The Patriots run the NFL’s most efficient offense because of the way they orchestrate their routes, having Wes Welker stutter step and hesitate off the line to let the rhythm of the offense flow. Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez often make double moves and delay their releases or the offense just uses quick screens out of the gun so the timing is not disrupted. The timing is very well choreographed and designed to work with Brady's altered shotgun mechanics.
When the Packers were struggling early in the season, Rodgers was more heavily operating from the gun and the offense's rhythm was out of sync. On top of offensive lines that have been hit hard by injuries, Cutler’s and Newton’s mechanics have suffered for the same reason. And even in Week 13, Stafford’s mechanics and the rhythm of the Lions’ offense still appeared to be very unsynchronized.
Offenses that operate out of the shotgun 70-plus percent of the time can produce big passing numbers, as the Lions do with the NFL’s most productive passing offense, but it also makes it very difficult to find rhythm and keep defenses honest.
Play-action can be a quarterback’s best friend and is one of the reasons why Robert Griffin III has started his NFL career on fire and is playing at an elite level down the stretch. It's driving the success of a modestly talented triggerman like Matt Schaub in Houston.
The NFL’s most efficient offenses understand balance, rhythm and how to set its quarterbacks up to succeed. For Stafford, Cutler and Newton to thrive, they would benefit from more time under center. |
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/12/03/stafford-suffers-from-shotgun-overload
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qball8001
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 7932
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:58 am Post subject: |
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Stafford is the 8th best qb in this league.
Above him in no order are:
Brady
Manning, P
Manning, E (whom stafford is very close to btw)
Rodgers
Brees
Roethlisburger
Romo (Honestly the hate he gets is so similar to Stafford)
Pros for Stafford:
Unreal arm strength.
Can throw the ball from any angel and still be some what accurate.
Can read progressions really well.
Insanely tough
Puts the ball in Windows very few qbs in the league can do.
Cons
Accuracy and consistency which are tied together to be erratic at times, but they do correct themselves. (I do not remember a game where he was just awful outside of Chicago last year.)
Pocket presence could use some work.
My 2 cents.
Stafford is a good qb on the cusp of being great. His Wideouts have dropped so many passes this season. Not to mention they have been dropping touch down passes that have hit them on the hands. Calvin has dropped 2 in the end zone. Pettigrew a handful. Burelson also dropped 1.
His accuracy is not perfect, but for the most part it is right there and his players should be able to make the play. This is the NFL not college, if you play wideout you should be able to adjust to a poorly thrown ball. It takes two hands to clap.
If you include the drops (40) Stafford's completion percentage jumps to 67.9 which is third in the NFL. He also throws the ball more than any other qb in the league. He is bound to have some passes sail. He is an accurate qb. Just because he has errant throws he is some how always inaccurate.
Stafford will be an elite qb in this league.
Also: Stafford has been sacked 25 times, Cutler 30, Rodgers 39, Luck 28, Newton 30, Big Ben 18, Brady 19.
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TheROARisBACK
Joined: 22 Jan 2011
Posts: 3161
Location: Joe on the sig
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| ManeLine wrote: | What do you guys think about this article?
| Quote: | Footwork is the most critical component to the play of a quarterback. Working from under center provides a passer with a sense of rhythm and timing that makes a passing game go. When a quarterback hits his third, fifth or seventh step, his eyes are geared to work in unison with the progression of each route, allowing a passer to set quickly and dump the ball if he sees a blitz coming on his first step or hit his seventh step and uncork it to a deep layer.
In the shotgun, a quarterback’s footwork is not natural. As defenses are shifting into coverage from disguised looks, a shotgun passer must drop his eyes from reading the field to catching the ball and back to the field again while turning his body and getting into throwing position. In that fraction of a second, as a quarterback is looking to get the grip on the ball and redirect his eyes, a lot can happen. Disguised coverages can show and already tight windows can close. On Sunday, Colts OLB Robert Mathis fell back into coverage against the Lions in that short span, directly into Matthew Stafford’s throwing lane. However, the fourth-year passer never saw Mathis as he caught the ball from the shotgun snap and immediately whipped a pass toward Brandon Pettigrew. The result was an easy interception for Mathis.
The integrity of quarterbacking mechanics has slipped in the NFL this season, and one of the chief culprits has been the proliferation of spread, shotgun offenses. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady can shift their feet quickly from the gun, but their mechanics are well-drilled from more than a decade of work and they are two of the game’s all-time great technicians. For younger quarterbacks such as Stafford, Jay Cutler, Cam Newton and even Aaron Rodgers, who started off the season very slowly, the prevalence of shotgun attacks has begun to erode NFL passing games, destroy the mechanics of its passers and diminish the quality of the product on the field.
Scott Linehan’s offense, though he will mix up some run-pass tendencies, is very predictable. When Stafford sets under center, odds are very high it will be a run, as the Lions did 17 of the 25 times that Stafford took the snap from center against Indianapolis. When Stafford lines up in the shotgun, odds are very high that he is throwing the ball, giving Mathis, Dwight Freeney and all oncoming rushers a very good idea where the launch point will be and allowing them to pin back their ears and fly off the snap with more abandon, generally knowing where the pocket will form.
Stafford is a gunslinger, and though he often slings the ball with a sidearm motion to advantageously find an open throwing window, his mechanics have tended to get more disjointed and out of rhythm because he is in the shotgun for 25-plus snaps per game. The shotgun can be very useful in 3rd-and-8 situations, but when it comes to quick-hitting routes, the shotgun disrupts the rhythm of a normal route tree and produces a lot of drops, a byproduct heavily afflicting the Lions against the Colts. It's no accident that the Lions currently lead the league in drops, where they stand in a category of their own.
The Patriots run the NFL’s most efficient offense because of the way they orchestrate their routes, having Wes Welker stutter step and hesitate off the line to let the rhythm of the offense flow. Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez often make double moves and delay their releases or the offense just uses quick screens out of the gun so the timing is not disrupted. The timing is very well choreographed and designed to work with Brady's altered shotgun mechanics.
When the Packers were struggling early in the season, Rodgers was more heavily operating from the gun and the offense's rhythm was out of sync. On top of offensive lines that have been hit hard by injuries, Cutler’s and Newton’s mechanics have suffered for the same reason. And even in Week 13, Stafford’s mechanics and the rhythm of the Lions’ offense still appeared to be very unsynchronized.
Offenses that operate out of the shotgun 70-plus percent of the time can produce big passing numbers, as the Lions do with the NFL’s most productive passing offense, but it also makes it very difficult to find rhythm and keep defenses honest.
Play-action can be a quarterback’s best friend and is one of the reasons why Robert Griffin III has started his NFL career on fire and is playing at an elite level down the stretch. It's driving the success of a modestly talented triggerman like Matt Schaub in Houston.
The NFL’s most efficient offenses understand balance, rhythm and how to set its quarterbacks up to succeed. For Stafford, Cutler and Newton to thrive, they would benefit from more time under center. |
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/12/03/stafford-suffers-from-shotgun-overload |
Good read.
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stylish313
Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 13818
Location: Flat Rock, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Top ten 35-40% of the time.
Middle of the pack 60-65% of the time.
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TL-TwoWinsAway
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 24079
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| ManeLine wrote: | What do you guys think about this article?
| Quote: | Footwork is the most critical component to the play of a quarterback. Working from under center provides a passer with a sense of rhythm and timing that makes a passing game go. When a quarterback hits his third, fifth or seventh step, his eyes are geared to work in unison with the progression of each route, allowing a passer to set quickly and dump the ball if he sees a blitz coming on his first step or hit his seventh step and uncork it to a deep layer.
In the shotgun, a quarterback’s footwork is not natural. As defenses are shifting into coverage from disguised looks, a shotgun passer must drop his eyes from reading the field to catching the ball and back to the field again while turning his body and getting into throwing position. In that fraction of a second, as a quarterback is looking to get the grip on the ball and redirect his eyes, a lot can happen. Disguised coverages can show and already tight windows can close. On Sunday, Colts OLB Robert Mathis fell back into coverage against the Lions in that short span, directly into Matthew Stafford’s throwing lane. However, the fourth-year passer never saw Mathis as he caught the ball from the shotgun snap and immediately whipped a pass toward Brandon Pettigrew. The result was an easy interception for Mathis.
The integrity of quarterbacking mechanics has slipped in the NFL this season, and one of the chief culprits has been the proliferation of spread, shotgun offenses. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady can shift their feet quickly from the gun, but their mechanics are well-drilled from more than a decade of work and they are two of the game’s all-time great technicians. For younger quarterbacks such as Stafford, Jay Cutler, Cam Newton and even Aaron Rodgers, who started off the season very slowly, the prevalence of shotgun attacks has begun to erode NFL passing games, destroy the mechanics of its passers and diminish the quality of the product on the field.
Scott Linehan’s offense, though he will mix up some run-pass tendencies, is very predictable. When Stafford sets under center, odds are very high it will be a run, as the Lions did 17 of the 25 times that Stafford took the snap from center against Indianapolis. When Stafford lines up in the shotgun, odds are very high that he is throwing the ball, giving Mathis, Dwight Freeney and all oncoming rushers a very good idea where the launch point will be and allowing them to pin back their ears and fly off the snap with more abandon, generally knowing where the pocket will form.
Stafford is a gunslinger, and though he often slings the ball with a sidearm motion to advantageously find an open throwing window, his mechanics have tended to get more disjointed and out of rhythm because he is in the shotgun for 25-plus snaps per game. The shotgun can be very useful in 3rd-and-8 situations, but when it comes to quick-hitting routes, the shotgun disrupts the rhythm of a normal route tree and produces a lot of drops, a byproduct heavily afflicting the Lions against the Colts. It's no accident that the Lions currently lead the league in drops, where they stand in a category of their own.
The Patriots run the NFL’s most efficient offense because of the way they orchestrate their routes, having Wes Welker stutter step and hesitate off the line to let the rhythm of the offense flow. Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez often make double moves and delay their releases or the offense just uses quick screens out of the gun so the timing is not disrupted. The timing is very well choreographed and designed to work with Brady's altered shotgun mechanics.
When the Packers were struggling early in the season, Rodgers was more heavily operating from the gun and the offense's rhythm was out of sync. On top of offensive lines that have been hit hard by injuries, Cutler’s and Newton’s mechanics have suffered for the same reason. And even in Week 13, Stafford’s mechanics and the rhythm of the Lions’ offense still appeared to be very unsynchronized.
Offenses that operate out of the shotgun 70-plus percent of the time can produce big passing numbers, as the Lions do with the NFL’s most productive passing offense, but it also makes it very difficult to find rhythm and keep defenses honest.
Play-action can be a quarterback’s best friend and is one of the reasons why Robert Griffin III has started his NFL career on fire and is playing at an elite level down the stretch. It's driving the success of a modestly talented triggerman like Matt Schaub in Houston.
The NFL’s most efficient offenses understand balance, rhythm and how to set its quarterbacks up to succeed. For Stafford, Cutler and Newton to thrive, they would benefit from more time under center. |
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/12/03/stafford-suffers-from-shotgun-overload |
I wished it referenced more than one game, especially one in which we had a lead for a significant part of it. Wait, we ran 68% of the time under center? Uh, yeah... we were winning.
If the writer truly wanted to sell that point, base those numbers off of the entire season. If you find a trend using that sample size, and through a number of circumstances, it will be a compelling argument.
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| kenney wrote: | | Stafford without Calvin Johnson is a mediocre QB |
- Said on 8/16/2012. |
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SadLionFan00
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 14342
Location: Michigan State University
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| DetroitSpirit wrote: | | #1 in my heart. |
#2 for me. Drew Stanton will always be #1
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| Silver&Black88 wrote: | | Quote: | | Trestman is a great coach but Cutler is already a pouty overconfident poo flinger. What more can he do with him? |
Get him to fling poo more accurately and make better decisions when flinging it? |
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diehardlionfan
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 21986
Location: Ottawa
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| LION KING wrote: | I love the ELI Manning love you take the championships away from his great defense and he gets nothing really never liked him as a QB!
Stafford is top 10 in talent alone you still have to have all the parts even the great Tom Brady hasn't won a Super bowl in his last two trips because his defense failed him or his kicker didn't get a chance at a winning field goal.
I think the great word is linked to much to actually winning a Super bowl.
I will never agree with ELI being better then his brother no way! |
Eli isn't better than his brother. Who said he was?
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To know what is right and not do it is the worst cowardice. |
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DetroitSpirit
Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 3065
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| SadLionFan00 wrote: | | DetroitSpirit wrote: | | #1 in my heart. |
#2 for me. Drew Stanton will always be #1 |
I got football with his autograph 
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| Vikefan79 wrote: | | And you know what about the playoffs and/or quarterbacks being a Detroit fan? |
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