Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Ravens vs Steelers GDT - Sponsored in Part by Auntie Anne's
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 31, 32, 33, 34  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Baltimore Ravens
View previous topic :: View next topic  

What's the most salty item?
New England Waaaaah Chowder
95%
 95%  [ 19 ]
Pittsburgh Saltine Crackers
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
San Diego Sour Dough
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 20

Author Message
BaltimoreTerp


Most Valuable Poster (4th Ballot)

Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 29905
Location: Washington, DC
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
So, we're just going to hear about how Flacco sucks, how he's overrated, etc like we do after every loss -- but I'd put this more on the defense if I had to choose a single scapegoat. 23 points. At home. To Charlie Batch. And that's with the gifts we were given by him. We couldn't get him off the field on 3rd downs at the end of the game to give Flacco a chance to drive for the win (which, btw, I'm confident he could have done seeing as that's basically his MO now). But, I absolutely can't stand Phillymore fans that are all hunky dory and the second we lose a game the sky is falling and Flacco blows.
No one has ever really suggested it's hunky dory. We've all pointed out the flaws in this team week in, week out and acknowledged that as long as we keep finding ways to win it would mitigate the criticism. When you lose a game like yesterday, it's going to open up floodgates that were more or less always floating under the surface.

It's hard to really articulate how I feel about this team and how I feel after yesterday. I'm sort of halfway between the reactionary 'Flacco blows, Harbaugh sucks' crowd and the side that treats this, perhaps fairly, as just one game and says that in the bigger picture everything is fine. Because I think a game like yesterday can both be a huge deal and a small deal all at the same time, and it all depends on how the team responds.

I think, Flaccomania, that you're falling into the same trap that you're warning other people to avoid: That of the single scapegoat. You're right to point out that the defense let us down yesterday, and everyone, both during the game and after, pointed that out as well. But sometimes you don't have to pick between one or the other: the fact that the defense let us down doesn't excuse the performance Flacco put forth, just like the performance Flacco put forth and our offense's generally bumbling performance doesn't let Dean Pees and the defense off the hook for failing to contain a Charlie Batch-led offense.

What was frustrating about yesterday wasn't really that it was a shocking loss. In fact, it wasn't. Even with the 10 point lead, it never really felt safe. It didn't feel like we were playing that well and then we relied on a gaffe of epic proportions (the Sanders fumble) to take our final lead. What's frustrating is that it all felt so familiar: This was the 3rd year out of the past 4 that we've lost to the Steelers because of a sack/fumble on Flacco. How the hell can that keep happening? And how am I supposed to believe that this team is making fundamental progress towards the ultimate goal of breaking through in the playoffs when they keep making the same mistakes, over and over again? The Ravens feel a bit like a broken record at times, and I'm starting to feel a little burned out. Games like this remind me that no matter how much I hope it'll be different, we're probably on our way to another 2 and done performance in the playoffs, because that's the Raven Way.

There's obviously ample time to reverse this sort of trajectory: The season has to play out still, and maybe, just maybe, the Flacco/Harbaugh braintrust can finally figure things out when it matter this time around. But if I was a betting man, seeing us crap the bed like this is the sort of performance that goes a long way towards undoing a lot of the good karma they've built up. This team both has a lot of credibility in my eyes and none at all. I'm sick and tired of the excuses: The offensive line, the playcalling, the injuries and the defense... put up or shut up. Flacco needs to be better. The offensive line needs to be better. The playcalling needs to be better. The defense needs to be better. Every underachieving aspect of this team uses some other aspect of the team as its own excuse, to the point where you've built up a house of cards ready to collapse at any moment. They all need to be better. They should all be ridiculed equally. That was an egg-on-your-face team loss, and I hope they woke up embarrassed today. Because they should be.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
StRawz11


Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 3727
Location: Not in Pittsburgh
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look at what our fanbase complains about

Flacco
Cam Cameron's playcalling
Offensive line
Defensive Line
Pressure
Wide Receivers and Tight Ends
Secondary
and some John Harbaugh

You would never imagine this team is 9-3. An unimpressive 9-3 I will say. But 9-3 nonetheless.
_________________


"I'm dismantling who I was and moving it brick by brick."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 7632
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm obligated to say that you forgot Dean Pees on that list.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
diamondbull424


Moderator
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 12988
Location: Baltimore, MD
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@BTerp: Now that I can agree with. I was ready to pin the loss on Flacco until our defense crapped the bed so hard in the 4th quarter. I mean, how do you allow 10 points in just one quarter. They keep the Steelers to just one score only... or keep them from getting 7 in the redzone... and we either win or have a chance to win.

Like I said during that game, it felt like the first Browns game. Honestly throughout that game I felt like we were "in control" of that game, but like I also said the difference is that the Steelers are a team that knows how to win. We allowed them to keep it close... and in the end, it bit us because that's a team that knows how to get it done. Be it by their defense forcing a sack, them intercepting a pass to give their offense the ball back for a score.

I think one of the pivotal points in the game was when we were up by 10. I thought if we could push that up to 17 points, we would force the Steelers to change their gameplan and we would walk away with the easy win. But we never did that. We continued to just skate by and just generally be undisciplined and unfocused as a team.

You'd think after Ngata almost got a rougher the passer penalty called on him, that some coach or defensive leader would have ringed him out for doing that and putting the team in a position where it could've turned bad... but then Kruger does it on the same drive to give the Steelers key yardage at an inopportune time. You simply CAN'T allow that to happen.

Losing that game was a result of poor leadership on both sides of the ball. Even Ray looked despondent on the sidelines like he wasn't all that interested in the game.

The team played pretty hard, but they were just all around not focused on their craft.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 23262
Location: Parkville, MD
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
So, we're just going to hear about how Flacco sucks, how he's overrated, etc like we do after every loss -- but I'd put this more on the defense if I had to choose a single scapegoat. 23 points. At home. To Charlie Batch. And that's with the gifts we were given by him. We couldn't get him off the field on 3rd downs at the end of the game to give Flacco a chance to drive for the win (which, btw, I'm confident he could have done seeing as that's basically his MO now). But, I absolutely can't stand Phillymore fans that are all hunky dory and the second we lose a game the sky is falling and Flacco blows.
No one has ever really suggested it's hunky dory. We've all pointed out the flaws in this team week in, week out and acknowledged that as long as we keep finding ways to win it would mitigate the criticism. When you lose a game like yesterday, it's going to open up floodgates that were more or less always floating under the surface.

It's hard to really articulate how I feel about this team and how I feel after yesterday. I'm sort of halfway between the reactionary 'Flacco blows, Harbaugh sucks' crowd and the side that treats this, perhaps fairly, as just one game and says that in the bigger picture everything is fine. Because I think a game like yesterday can both be a huge deal and a small deal all at the same time, and it all depends on how the team responds.

I think, Flaccomania, that you're falling into the same trap that you're warning other people to avoid: That of the single scapegoat. You're right to point out that the defense let us down yesterday, and everyone, both during the game and after, pointed that out as well. But sometimes you don't have to pick between one or the other: the fact that the defense let us down doesn't excuse the performance Flacco put forth, just like the performance Flacco put forth and our offense's generally bumbling performance doesn't let Dean Pees and the defense off the hook for failing to contain a Charlie Batch-led offense.

What was frustrating about yesterday wasn't really that it was a shocking loss. In fact, it wasn't. Even with the 10 point lead, it never really felt safe. It didn't feel like we were playing that well and then we relied on a gaffe of epic proportions (the Sanders fumble) to take our final lead. What's frustrating is that it all felt so familiar: This was the 3rd year out of the past 4 that we've lost to the Steelers because of a sack/fumble on Flacco. How the hell can that keep happening? And how am I supposed to believe that this team is making fundamental progress towards the ultimate goal of breaking through in the playoffs when they keep making the same mistakes, over and over again? The Ravens feel a bit like a broken record at times, and I'm starting to feel a little burned out. Games like this remind me that no matter how much I hope it'll be different, we're probably on our way to another 2 and done performance in the playoffs, because that's the Raven Way.

There's obviously ample time to reverse this sort of trajectory: The season has to play out still, and maybe, just maybe, the Flacco/Harbaugh braintrust can finally figure things out when it matter this time around. But if I was a betting man, seeing us crap the bed like this is the sort of performance that goes a long way towards undoing a lot of the good karma they've built up. This team both has a lot of credibility in my eyes and none at all. I'm sick and tired of the excuses: The offensive line, the playcalling, the injuries and the defense... put up or shut up. Flacco needs to be better. The offensive line needs to be better. The playcalling needs to be better. The defense needs to be better. Every underachieving aspect of this team uses some other aspect of the team as its own excuse, to the point where you've built up a house of cards ready to collapse at any moment. They all need to be better. They should all be ridiculed equally. That was an egg-on-your-face team loss, and I hope they woke up embarrassed today. Because they should be.


I definitely wasn't trying to excuse Flacco's play by putting it on others -- if it came off that way, it certainly wasn't intentional.

And most of my frustration with the "Flacco sucks" crap is not from these boards, because we are some of the more intelligent fans (which is why I refuse to try to talk intelligent football outside of these boards), but mostly from Facebook/Twitter. All I see is just how much Flacco sucks, how much we need to get rid of him, some even suggesting that Tim Tebow would be a better option, etc. It's just annoying as all hell and I was more venting. But I do see it on here from time to time (hell, in the other thread on here a poster suggested Michael freakin' Vick would be a better option), but more often than not we're all smart enough to look past the obvious scapegoats.

My point was simply like you said -- our whole team didn't play well, it wasn't just one guy who crapped the bed. The defense wasn't playing well, Cam's play calling wasn't very good, Harbaugh making dumb challenges, all on top of Flacco's bad game compounded together and made us lose a game which we should have won.

I do agree that we definitely have our flaws and this game pretty much hit them all, and that we've been skating by with some good luck this season -- but even with all of that, we're still a pretty darn good team and while we're not as strong as seasons past, we're still most certainly contenders in the AFC.

It's just the overreactions that I see time and time again that just scream ignorance gets under my skin -- I just see so many people turning into Philly-type fans -- the kind where as soon as one thing doesn't go as expected, they expect heads to roll.

I do think you and I are a bit on the same page -- the Ravens most certainly have a history of this stinker type games and I do agree that Joe needs to improve on his pocket presence/timer in his head that says "Hey, I need to do something besides stand here with the ball out". But with all of that said, at this point, he's still by far our best option and he's still good enough to get us to that Lombardi. We've seen what he can do with the game is on the line, it's just time for him to keep that focus at other points in the game and become more consistent.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 23262
Location: Parkville, MD
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:

The team played pretty hard, but they were just all around not focused on their craft.


Bingo -- the game just screamed "unfocused". Boldin's drops, Joe's poor deep balls/pocket presence, defense's bad tackling/coverage, blown assignments, etc. It seemed to me that they went into it with a ho-hum attitude and it bit them very much.

I will say though that these losses typically have a positive effect on the team -- we usually come out and play well after a loss. Sort of a wake up call. I'm interested to see how we do next week to see if they realize that they need to wake up.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
diamondbull424


Moderator
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 12988
Location: Baltimore, MD
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:

The team played pretty hard, but they were just all around not focused on their craft.


Bingo -- the game just screamed "unfocused". Boldin's drops, Joe's poor deep balls/pocket presence, defense's bad tackling/coverage, blown assignments, etc. It seemed to me that they went into it with a ho-hum attitude and it bit them very much.

I will say though that these losses typically have a positive effect on the team -- we usually come out and play well after a loss. Sort of a wake up call. I'm interested to see how we do next week to see if they realize that they need to wake up.

Yeah, well we'll certainly need to bounce back with us playing RG3 next week. He's threatening to become an elite QB. He's already most definitely a top 10 QB option in this league. That and Alfred Morris will be tough to handle. I haven't paid as much attention to the Redskins defense though tbh. Everytime I watch their defense it just bores me because they don't seem to have that true impact player. Their run defense didn't look bad in the games I half watched (again mostly paying attention to RG3 and not their defense- but still).

So we're going to need that classic bound back game. The Redskins will be playing for their playoff chances. We're going to be getting an extremely motivated squad. Harbaugh better have this team ready to play- because honestly they just haven't looked very focused- particularly on the offensive end for the past couple weeks. We've been dropping a lot of balls recently.. and Flacco's footwork has really worsened since the beginning of the season. Caldwell needs to get into Flacco's ear and have him focus on his technique to improve his accuracy. Seems like our coaches outside of Pees (go figure) are simply too content. At least Pees, while naturally bad, is TRYING to make the appropriate adjustments so that he doesn't see himself fired come seasons end. He's drastically improved our front 7 play over the coarse of the season. Yet the rest of our units have regressed. Clearly something needs to be done about that.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 27945
Location: Spokane, WA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@BTerp: I can agree with just about everything you said. But here's what I'll add this morning:

This game SHOULD have been a blowout. We should have been BLOWN OUT by a Charlie Batch-led Steelers team. If Emmanuel Sanders holds on to the ball and they score, we are down by 7 instead of up by 7. If the Steelers don't pull that ridiculous trick play, they probably go down the field and score on us. That's a 14 point swing right there that we lucked out on because the Steelers tried (like so many other teams this year) to give us this game.

We haven't earned very many wins this year. Many wins have just been "given" to us essentially by the other team; Dallas, Steelers, Cleveland, etc. and that's one of my biggest worries about this team is that for all these weeks we've all been on the "just win, baby!" train and kind of throwing out "how" we've won. Well, now that "how" has caught up to this team and it looked pretty damn awful last night, but to me that's just the culmination of what I've been noticing for weeks and months now with this team.

Like BTerp said, you can't blame any one person for yesterday, it was a collective suckfest by EVERYONE. Cam Cameron gives Ray Rice ZERO touches in the 4th quarter, Joe Flacco ONE AGAIN gets sacked and fumbles when he had forever and a day to throw the damn ball (resulting in what ultimately would be the separating touchdown), the defense had several blown coverages and couldn't get pressure OR maintain their edge integrity on run plays, and our special teams allowed a key return by Rainey to give them great field position for a FG, and then you have Harbaugh's "challenge" which I'm not even going to go into detail of because that was one of the most retarded things I've ever seen a head coach challenge. Seriously. Retarded. I can't think of another word to describe it other than just retarded.

I also have to point out that what BTerp said about us going 2 and done in the playoffs is most likely what's going to happen, if we don't just go one-and-done instead, because like he said, that's the Raven Way here. We are satisfied just making the playoffs but we have absolutely no idea how to win the big game; heck we can't even beat CHARLIE BATCH on a game that looked to have the perfect setting for us to absolutely DESTROY the Steelers! This wasn't just a day game with no nationally televised audience tuning in; this was a 4:25 game, in our black uniforms, at home, against a 3rd string QB who last week was EMBARRASSED by the Cleveland Browns, and with a chance to essentially end their season and hopes of winning the AFC North....But instead we decide to take the night off and just cruise, like we usually do, against an inferior opponent, and USUALLY we can get away with that because in the 4th quarter we start to realize that "Oh dang, man, we could like LOSE this game!" and we step it up and start playing like an elite team, but last night that didn't happen, and I'm glad it didn't happen because if you rely on that kind of thing to win games, you're not going to go anywhere in the playoffs, plain and simple.

I don't know what more to say about last night, it was a giant goose egg from the same people who make the same mistakes every freakin' week pretty much, but of course there will be no accountability on anyone's part by Harbaugh, and he'll continue to just say "we made some errors. We'll fix it and move on, blah blah blah" and we will continue to see the same mistakes happen again next week, and the week after, and the week after. At some point, as a FO you have to draw the line. You paid Ray Rice the big contract only to see him become completely invisible in the 4th quarter because your offensive coordinator doesn't know he exists. You brought in a 3rd WR so that you could run no huddle and spread teams out and be creative, but your offensive coordinator doesn't know that he exists either. You have 2 of the best defensive players in the league on defense but your defensive coordinator doesn't know how to get creative and bring pressure, or even design coverage plays for that matter.

In conclusion, like BTerp mentioned, it's been the same guys making the same mistakes over and over and it's not going to end now. It's just the way this team has lost for the past 3 years, and why am I supposed to think that last night was a "wake up call" for this team? Losing to FREAKING JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS last year on MNF should've been that wake up call, but as we all saw, it wasn't, because a couple weeks later we lost to Seattle in the same way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Go_Ravens2


Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 1995
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't really read through what everyone else thought about the game yet, so I apologize if I'm repeating what others have already said.

Yesterday's came was just a bad team game. We were outplayed and outcoached and didn't deserve to win. Flacco played possibly the worst game of his career with respect to his accuracy, our d-line had ZERO pass rush, our secondary and linebackers left the middle of the field open all day, and our offense refused to use the middle of the field again. That being said, teams occasionally have those bad games, and we are still a very good team. Nobody makes it to 9-3 in this league if they aren't a very good team, so I don't like it when everyone is complaining about so much.

To me, the biggest problem is easily Cam's playcalling. I'm not referring to the split of run plays to pass plays, as I didn't think it was too bad last night. However, I'm referring to his refusal to use the middle of the field. We've seen this for years now, and I don't see us taking that next step forward until either he stops being so stubborn or he is relieved of playcalling duties. Its to the point where opposing CBs have actually said it is very easy to sit on our routes because we only run outs, hooks, and flys. If there is safety help, then the CB can just shade the WRs outside shoulder to take away the out and hook, and the S will cover the deep ball. It makes our vertical game extremely ineffective. I saw us call 2 plays with crossing routes yesterday, one to Boldin and one to Pitta, and they both were completed for first downs and big plays. It is clear that it works, and we know Flacco can excel in that type of an offense, but Cam still refuses to call it. One specific moment where I think this poor playcalling cost the game (combined with bad plays by other people), is on the Flacco fumble. I was at the game and my seats are in the endzone so I could see very easily how everyone is lined up. Boldin was in single coverage in the slot and it was very evident Harrison was blitzing. I was yelling for Boldin to run a quick slant to the inside (where Harrison was vacating), but instead he runs a fly. Flacco ends up holding the ball too long because the routes take forever to develop, and that was the turning point in the game IMO. If Boldin had just run the quick slant, there was no LBer to assist there and I believe Boldin can beat their nickelback on a 5 yard slant 9 times out of 10 (esp. with ike out of the game). That would have changed the entire game. The steelers abused the middle of the field against us and we never even try to use it. While there were a number of problems with this team last night, I can't help but believe this is the ultimate source of the problems. When CBs can sit on our routes and the running game isn't getting going, Flacco has nowhere to go with the ball. He is trained to do his best to avoid turnovers, so that results in some inaccurate throws because he doesn't try to squeeze it into tight coverage that we always see. Maybe I just refuse to admit Flacco is bad, but I really think Flacco can be an upper tier QB in this league with the right system in place, which is not what Cam brings to this team. Obviously, as mentioned before, a lot went wrong yesterday, but I think the key to making this team a true contender begins with the playcalling.
_________________

GO RAVENS!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bmore4life815


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 3429
Location: Climbing up M&T
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not seeing why some of you are fixated on Flacco's numbers. He may never throw for 4,500 yards and 30 TD's in a season, or crack the Pro Bowl, but he's 58-27 for his career (including the postseason) and has finished with more than 15 turnovers just once in his five years. He's clearly a 10-15 QB, and is a proven winner. So, how is that not a franchise QB?

I've been very hard on him in the past, but you're going to get more good than bad with him. I think all of us need to realize that.
_________________

Bernard "Crush Boy" Pollard- Forever a Raven

El Ramster on the sig that isn't going anywhere


Last edited by bmore4life815 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 27945
Location: Spokane, WA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmore4life815 wrote:
I'm not seeing why some of you are fixated on Flacco's numbers. He may never throw for 4,500 yards and 30 TD's in a season, or crack the Pro Bowl, but he's 58-37 for his career (including the postseason) and has finished with more than 15 turnovers just once in his five years. He's clearly a 10-15 QB, and is a proven winner. So, how is that not a franchise QB?

I've been very hard on him in the past, but you're going to get more good than bad with him. I think all of us need to realize that.


Is Alex Smith a franchise QB? He doesn't turn the ball over and is a proven winner under Jim Harbaugh.

Or how about Tim Tebow? He doesn't really turn the ball over, is clutch, a proven winner, but do you consider him a franchise QB?

Fact is, stats do matter, but to a certain extent. If a QB can't be counted on to show up every week with his A game, he's not a franchise QB unless he PROVES he can win a Superbowl, which Joe has not. Although Joe showed he could have gotten us there, he also played poorly the game before that, and to contrast another inconsistent QB (Eli Manning), he played well throughout the entire playoffs and through the Superbowl and won it for his team.

This isn't to say that Flacco can't be a Franchise QB, it's just that as of right now; he's not.


Last edited by SnA ExclusiVe on Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 27945
Location: Spokane, WA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@GoRavens2:

I agree with your entire post except one part, the beginning. Ray Rice got 12 touches. He got ZERO in the 4th quarter. That is all. Everything else you are on point with.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bmore4life815


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 3429
Location: Climbing up M&T
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
I'm not seeing why some of you are fixated on Flacco's numbers. He may never throw for 4,500 yards and 30 TD's in a season, or crack the Pro Bowl, but he's 58-37 for his career (including the postseason) and has finished with more than 15 turnovers just once in his five years. He's clearly a 10-15 QB, and is a proven winner. So, how is that not a franchise QB?

I've been very hard on him in the past, but you're going to get more good than bad with him. I think all of us need to realize that.


Is Alex Smith a franchise QB? He doesn't turn the ball over and is a proven winner under Jim Harbaugh.

Or how about Tim Tebow? He doesn't really turn the ball over, is clutch, a proven winner, but do you consider him a franchise QB?

Fact is, stats do matter, but to a certain extent. If a QB can't be counted on to show up every week with his A game, he's not a franchise QB unless he PROVES he can win a Superbowl, which Joe has not. Although Joe showed he could have gotten us there, he also played poorly the game before that, and to contrast another inconsistent QB (Eli Manning), he played well throughout the entire playoffs and through the Superbowl and won it for his team.

This isn't to say that Flacco can't be a Franchise QB, it's just that as of right now; he's not.

The problem here is that most knowledgeable football observers don't regard Smith as a top 10-12 QB, and Tebow is obviously nowhere close to that.
_________________

Bernard "Crush Boy" Pollard- Forever a Raven

El Ramster on the sig that isn't going anywhere
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 27945
Location: Spokane, WA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmore4life815 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
I'm not seeing why some of you are fixated on Flacco's numbers. He may never throw for 4,500 yards and 30 TD's in a season, or crack the Pro Bowl, but he's 58-37 for his career (including the postseason) and has finished with more than 15 turnovers just once in his five years. He's clearly a 10-15 QB, and is a proven winner. So, how is that not a franchise QB?

I've been very hard on him in the past, but you're going to get more good than bad with him. I think all of us need to realize that.


Is Alex Smith a franchise QB? He doesn't turn the ball over and is a proven winner under Jim Harbaugh.

Or how about Tim Tebow? He doesn't really turn the ball over, is clutch, a proven winner, but do you consider him a franchise QB?

Fact is, stats do matter, but to a certain extent. If a QB can't be counted on to show up every week with his A game, he's not a franchise QB unless he PROVES he can win a Superbowl, which Joe has not. Although Joe showed he could have gotten us there, he also played poorly the game before that, and to contrast another inconsistent QB (Eli Manning), he played well throughout the entire playoffs and through the Superbowl and won it for his team.

This isn't to say that Flacco can't be a Franchise QB, it's just that as of right now; he's not.

The problem here is that most knowledgeable football observers don't regard Smith as a top 10-12 QB, and Tebow is obviously nowhere close to that.


And how can anyone honestly say that Flacco is a top-10 QB when he continuously has these kinds of outings? What characteristic makes him a top-10 QB?

Accuracy? No.
Mobility? No.
Leadership? No.
Pocket Awareness and movement? No.
Ability to avoid stupid mistakes and prevent turnovers? No.
Ability to manage games? No.
Ability to engineer comebacks after playing horrible for 3 quarters? Sure.
Arm Strength? Yes.

So if being able to lead comebacks and having a strong arm is all that it takes to be a top-10 QB, the qualifications are flawed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 23262
Location: Parkville, MD
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
I'm not seeing why some of you are fixated on Flacco's numbers. He may never throw for 4,500 yards and 30 TD's in a season, or crack the Pro Bowl, but he's 58-37 for his career (including the postseason) and has finished with more than 15 turnovers just once in his five years. He's clearly a 10-15 QB, and is a proven winner. So, how is that not a franchise QB?

I've been very hard on him in the past, but you're going to get more good than bad with him. I think all of us need to realize that.


Is Alex Smith a franchise QB? He doesn't turn the ball over and is a proven winner under Jim Harbaugh.

Or how about Tim Tebow? He doesn't really turn the ball over, is clutch, a proven winner, but do you consider him a franchise QB?

Fact is, stats do matter, but to a certain extent. If a QB can't be counted on to show up every week with his A game, he's not a franchise QB unless he PROVES he can win a Superbowl, which Joe has not. Although Joe showed he could have gotten us there, he also played poorly the game before that, and to contrast another inconsistent QB (Eli Manning), he played well throughout the entire playoffs and through the Superbowl and won it for his team.

This isn't to say that Flacco can't be a Franchise QB, it's just that as of right now; he's not.

The problem here is that most knowledgeable football observers don't regard Smith as a top 10-12 QB, and Tebow is obviously nowhere close to that.


And how can anyone honestly say that Flacco is a top-10 QB when he continuously has these kinds of outings? What characteristic makes him a top-10 QB?

Accuracy? Yes.
Mobility? Enough.
Leadership? Yes.
Pocket Awareness and movement? No.
Ability to avoid stupid mistakes and prevent turnovers? Yes.
Ability to manage games? Enough.
Ability to engineer comebacks after playing horrible for 3 quarters? Sure.
Arm Strength? Yes.

So if being able to lead comebacks and having a strong arm is all that it takes to be a top-10 QB, the qualifications are flawed.


FIFY.

You're not giving Flacco enough credit whatsoever.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Baltimore Ravens All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 31, 32, 33, 34  Next
Page 32 of 34

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group