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Does anyone know what time Reggie's press conferences is.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 33502
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
So we should get rid of mediocre players because they aren't dominant? Seems legit. Worked real well with Pat Lee. He settled for a below average player. Lee was better than Bartell has been since his return. Ergo, idiotic.
If anything Bartel and Lee are equal. Bartel has been a better CB in his career. Injury derailed him this year, or he'd likely be better.

Point is, Lee/Bartel.... they are not DOMINANT and Reggie choose to keep the player who might have more going forward.

No, Bartell has one good play per game but is toast every play beside that one. Lee had better coverage overall and was a better player this year. Regardless of whether either is dominant or not, we cut a younger, better player in favor of a 30 something year old coming off a broken neck and broken shoulder, on a one year deal, who probably isn't even going to be on the team next year. Please tell me how how Bartell was the better choice going forward. Hindsight is 20/20 but I think that move was awful.

big_palooka wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Seriously, you change your stance on things to match whatever is going on all the time. I mean, if they cut Seabass right now you'd say 'Oh he missed too many kicks over his career anyway, we could do better' just for the sake of being with whatever is happening.
How so? Because I'm not coming down on Reggie for cutting a mediocre player? There is save maybe 4-5 players I would be upset seeing waived from this team. I have had that stance for the last 3 season. I was the one preaching 'lack of talent' on defense while everyone was playing it 100% on Bresnehan.

I've said before, I'm in wait and see mode. I'm not sipping the Kool-aid on Reggie. I want Knapp out just like the rest of us. But I'm not going to get bent out of shape when a scrub like Pat Lee is cut from this team.


big_palooka wrote:
So having a change in opinion is flip-flopping right? That's how this works. I've been wrong on players, coaches, etc. I've changed positions when more evidence was available. I forget you type something in the moment, it's 100% your position to the end of time.
No. You do flip-flop, man. It's always the same way. You say something negative about how we're doing it wrong, and then the Raiders make X move and you say Y saying how its terrific and we're on the right track. Rinse and repeat.

Its whatever, but idk. I just wouldn't expect that kind of stuff out of one of the best posters on the forum.
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Last edited by Silver&Black88 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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RaiderX


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

S&B88 is kinda right there. Also, I do recall bp being high on Pryor when we took him in the supplemental draft and now after not throwing a pass for a year and a half and a couple preseason games he's done a 180. Usually its the siding with the front office thing. If the front office likes him he must be good.

I don't mean to put somebody on blast but it's something I've noticed as well.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22613
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
So we should get rid of mediocre players because they aren't dominant? Seems legit. Worked real well with Pat Lee. He settled for a below average player. Lee was better than Bartell has been since his return. Ergo, idiotic.
If anything Bartel and Lee are equal. Bartel has been a better CB in his career. Injury derailed him this year, or he'd likely be better.

Point is, Lee/Bartel.... they are not DOMINANT and Reggie choose to keep the player who might have more going forward.

No, Bartell has one good play per game but is toast every play beside that one. Lee had better coverage overall and was a better player this year. Regardless of whether either is dominant or not, we cut a younger, better player in favor of a 30 something year old coming off a broken neck and broken shoulder, on a one year deal, who probably isn't even going to be on the team next year. Please tell me how how Bartell was the better choice going forward. Hindsight is 20/20 but I think that move was awful.

big_palooka wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Seriously, you change your stance on things to match whatever is going on all the time. I mean, if they cut Seabass right now you'd say 'Oh he missed too many kicks over his career anyway, we could do better' just for the sake of being with whatever is happening.
How so? Because I'm not coming down on Reggie for cutting a mediocre player? There is save maybe 4-5 players I would be upset seeing waived from this team. I have had that stance for the last 3 season. I was the one preaching 'lack of talent' on defense while everyone was playing it 100% on Bresnehan.

I've said before, I'm in wait and see mode. I'm not sipping the Kool-aid on Reggie. I want Knapp out just like the rest of us. But I'm not going to get bent out of shape when a scrub like Pat Lee is cut from this team.


big_palooka wrote:
So having a change in opinion is flip-flopping right? That's how this works. I've been wrong on players, coaches, etc. I've changed positions when more evidence was available. I forget you type something in the moment, it's 100% your position to the end of time.
No. You do flip-flop, man. It's always the same way. You say something negative about how we're doing it wrong, and then the Raiders make X move and you say Y saying how its terrific and we're on the right track. Rinse and repeat.

Its whatever, but idk. I just wouldn't expect that kind of stuff out of one of the best posters on the forum.


Well in case you haven't noticed, I tend to be a voice of reason. I like to devil's advocate side of the coin. It's always doom and gloom, so I try to remain positive in a certain direction.

As for the Bartel/Lee argument, agree to disagree. Neither is worth keeping, but Bartel's had success in his career so I see why they went w/ him over Lee who's been pretty poor in his career.

Still don't get what I've flip-flopped on. I've maintained the we lack talent line for 3 years. Believe in Reggie's direction and support what moves have been made as nothing has been eye-popping. Again, it's a wait and see.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaiderX wrote:
S&B88 is kinda right there. Also, I do recall bp being high on Pryor when we took him in the supplemental draft and now after not throwing a pass for a year and a half and a couple preseason games he's done a 180. Usually its the siding with the front office thing. If the front office likes him he must be good.

I don't mean to put somebody on blast but it's something I've noticed as well.


I side w/ the FO, because they are the professionals here that work with these players. Be it the old FO or new, has a player got away that has proven a baller that you can say 'big mistake'.

There is plenty I disagree with as well. I was sour on Knapp's hiring, but thought he'd do more with the talent here, he hasn't.

I'm a positive person. I tend to side with what appears a positive to me.

As for Pryor. Liked the pick at the time, but thought Hue (and Al for that matter) would be around to work with him. That was before Palmer. I've not done a 180 on Pryor, just don't think he needs to be rushed in when Palmer is a quality starter. I'd like to see him learn and play down the road with Palmer starting.
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RaiderX


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
As for Pryor. Liked the pick at the time, but thought Hue (and Al for that matter) would be around to work with him. That was before Palmer. I've not done a 180 on Pryor, just don't think he needs to be rushed in when Palmer is a quality starter. I'd like to see him learn and play down the road with Palmer starting.


Come on yo. After preseason you cut Pryor zero slack and said he has no future as a QB. You compared the guy to Tebow for goodness sake. I'm not one of the guys who think Pryor should start over Palmer, but as I said before the guy hadn't thrown in a year and a half and is learning another new offense. His "rookie" year was a wash; basically time for him to work on his mechanics. I just hope Knapp can at least give the kid some good input like did with Yates in Houston, if he doesn't return with the team.

I'm not saying the guy is the QB of the future, but at least give the guy a chance because he's willing to put in the work. Maybe we can build around the QB in the meantime and put him in a position to succeed. Similar to what the Niners are doing with Kaepernick. Its not exactly like the QB prospects the next couple years are enticing.
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Professor Oak


Joined: 12 Apr 2011
Posts: 3843
Location: Pallet Town
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Davis has spoken out on his frustrations once again. Good read.

Some interesting quotes:

Quote:
"Well, we have five games to go. Who on this team wants me to fight for them to keep their job? Who among the players and coaches really wants to be here? Who wants me to fight to keep them here?''


Mark Davis on Dennis Allen after speaking to him:
Quote:
"I wouldn't say it was heated; the most heated I got was when we first got on the plane and I told him it's not good enough,'' Davis said. "And that's what I said. I told him not long after we boarded: `It's not good enough.' I admit I was pissed off.''

Quote:
"Honestly, I was happy to see some of that passion coming out of him,'' Davis said. "Frankly, I didn't know if it was there.''

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dawsonleery


Joined: 31 Oct 2012
Posts: 715
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just about everyone on offense has regressed in Knapp's ridiculous scheme. I'm not sure why Dennis Allen or Reggie McKenzie could view the talent on the team, mostly young talent that Al Saunders has been watching over for two seasons and just allow Knapp to come in here and run this wannabe Texans WCO and Zone-Blocking scheme. Most of the talent on the offense is in there early to mid 20's... They were in the process of growing in 1 scheme, 1 system, the players were improving and Knapp came in here and destroyed it.


On defense... Its a different story, Yes with Allen I thought things would be better than 2011 but his unit seriously is talentless. Listening to Mark Davis it pretty much sounds like everyone is coaching for their jobs, even Allen. No matter what Reggie says.
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 3176
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaiderX wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
As for Pryor. Liked the pick at the time, but thought Hue (and Al for that matter) would be around to work with him. That was before Palmer. I've not done a 180 on Pryor, just don't think he needs to be rushed in when Palmer is a quality starter. I'd like to see him learn and play down the road with Palmer starting.


Come on yo. After preseason you cut Pryor zero slack and said he has no future as a QB. You compared the guy to Tebow for goodness sake. I'm not one of the guys who think Pryor should start over Palmer, but as I said before the guy hadn't thrown in a year and a half and is learning another new offense. His "rookie" year was a wash; basically time for him to work on his mechanics. I just hope Knapp can at least give the kid some good input like did with Yates in Houston, if he doesn't return with the team.

I'm not saying the guy is the QB of the future, but at least give the guy a chance because he's willing to put in the work. Maybe we can build around the QB in the meantime and put him in a position to succeed. Similar to what the Niners are doing with Kaepernick. Its not exactly like the QB prospects the next couple years are enticing.


He actually didn't say he doesn't like Pryor, he said that he shouldn't be rushed in because we have Palmer. Personally I'd like to see Pryor this year maybe week 16 or 17, with the season gone I wouldn't want to expose Palmer to expose him to injury in a meaningless game.
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RaiderX


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
RaiderX wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
As for Pryor. Liked the pick at the time, but thought Hue (and Al for that matter) would be around to work with him. That was before Palmer. I've not done a 180 on Pryor, just don't think he needs to be rushed in when Palmer is a quality starter. I'd like to see him learn and play down the road with Palmer starting.


Come on yo. After preseason you cut Pryor zero slack and said he has no future as a QB. You compared the guy to Tebow for goodness sake. I'm not one of the guys who think Pryor should start over Palmer, but as I said before the guy hadn't thrown in a year and a half and is learning another new offense. His "rookie" year was a wash; basically time for him to work on his mechanics. I just hope Knapp can at least give the kid some good input like did with Yates in Houston, if he doesn't return with the team.

I'm not saying the guy is the QB of the future, but at least give the guy a chance because he's willing to put in the work. Maybe we can build around the QB in the meantime and put him in a position to succeed. Similar to what the Niners are doing with Kaepernick. Its not exactly like the QB prospects the next couple years are enticing.


He actually didn't say he doesn't like Pryor, he said that he shouldn't be rushed in because we have Palmer. Personally I'd like to see Pryor this year maybe week 16 or 17, with the season gone I wouldn't want to expose Palmer to expose him to injury in a meaningless game.


I wasn't talking about what he just said. I was referring to comments made after the preseason.
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Raidin


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more quotes I see of Mark Davis the more worried about him I am as owner.
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Keleth


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
The more quotes I see of Mark Davis the more worried about him I am as owner.


Have to agree with you a bit.
I hope he is not going down the Al path and will think he knows better than his GM and coaches.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keleth wrote:
Raidin wrote:
The more quotes I see of Mark Davis the more worried about him I am as owner.


Have to agree with you a bit.
I hope he is not going down the Al path and will think he knows better than his GM and coaches.


When the GM the coaches make huge mistakes you have to wonder. Like Mark said this time last year the Raiders where 7-4 and now under the the new GM and Coach they are 3-8.
I would be mad as well.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
Keleth wrote:
Raidin wrote:
The more quotes I see of Mark Davis the more worried about him I am as owner.


Have to agree with you a bit.
I hope he is not going down the Al path and will think he knows better than his GM and coaches.


When the GM the coaches make huge mistakes you have to wonder. Like Mark said this time last year the Raiders where 7-4 and now under the the new GM and Coach they are 3-8.
I would be mad as well.


Yeah, i don't know what the big deal is here. As the owner he has every right to be disappointed and to let people know about it. Apparently, he came straight to the guy he started to question and asked him to explain the issues he was going thru. Why shouldn't he do it?
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaiderX wrote:
S&B88 is kinda right there. Also, I do recall bp being high on Pryor when we took him in the supplemental draft and now after not throwing a pass for a year and a half and a couple preseason games he's done a 180. Usually its the siding with the front office thing. If the front office likes him he must be good.

I don't mean to put somebody on blast but it's something I've noticed as well.


I side w/ the FO, because they are the professionals here that work with these players. Be it the old FO or new, has a player got away that has proven a baller that you can say 'big mistake'.

There is plenty I disagree with as well. I was sour on Knapp's hiring, but thought he'd do more with the talent here, he hasn't.

I'm a positive person. I tend to side with what appears a positive to me.

As for Pryor. Liked the pick at the time, but thought Hue (and Al for that matter) would be around to work with him. That was before Palmer. I've not done a 180 on Pryor, just don't think he needs to be rushed in when Palmer is a quality starter. I'd like to see him learn and play down the road with Palmer starting.
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Keleth


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
bitty wrote:
Keleth wrote:
Raidin wrote:
The more quotes I see of Mark Davis the more worried about him I am as owner.


Have to agree with you a bit.
I hope he is not going down the Al path and will think he knows better than his GM and coaches.


When the GM the coaches make huge mistakes you have to wonder. Like Mark said this time last year the Raiders where 7-4 and now under the the new GM and Coach they are 3-8.
I would be mad as well.


Yeah, i don't know what the big deal is here. As the owner he has every right to be disappointed and to let people know about it. Apparently, he came straight to the guy he started to question and asked him to explain the issues he was going thru. Why shouldn't he do it?


Because owners own the team and that is it.
How often do good owners speak out ?
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