Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Let's talk about the Linebackers
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Washington Redskins
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
footy_29


Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 11394
Location: The Frozen Tundra that is Canada
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:01 pm    Post subject: Let's talk about the Linebackers Reply with quote

As most of you know, I always like to be looking ahead. When I was putting together my mid-season thoughts (found here), one of the positions that drew a great deal of thought was the LB group. And it surprised me because it was the group that I had the most confidence in prior to the 2012 regular season. It made me question the group as a whole, and so I come to you to hear your thoughts.

By now I think I have stated my three assumptions for the off-season so that everyone should be tired of hearing it, and they are:
    1 - London Fletcher will not return.
    2 - It will be difficult to attract a marquee FA defensive back (perhaps Sam Shields as a consolation).
    3 - As such, rounds 2, 3 & 4 should be devoted to the secondary.
My question to you is quite simple - Should I rethink my thoughts on the LB crew?

I look to the 49ers defense and I see two studs at ILB, and you really appreciate how important they are to the defensive success of their team. They set the tone for that defense and really control the middle, in pass and run situations. They work as a great tandem.

As it stands now, I am not sure that Perry Riley or Lorenzo Alexander are good enough in coverage to be paired together. Unfortunately, it is looking like this is what will happen. Lorenzo Alexander, who should be the favorite to assume the 'green dot', should get the vacated spot due to his progression and play in the latter half of the season. If Orakpo and Kerrigan are healthy in 2013, I think Riley and Zo are good enough to get the job done, but I maintain that we need to entertain the thought of an elite ILB duo.

Arrow Does this defense need to seriously consider an ILB in the second round next year or in 2013? (If you agree, perhaps you could suggest prospects to keep an eye on)

Arrow Or, do you believe that Perry Riley and Keenan Robinson are good complements to each other and the long-term fixtures at the position?

Arrow Am I being too quick to dismiss London as an option in 2013?

Which makes me then consider the following...

We have seen the impact of Orakpo by the defensive performance since his injury. Seeing the performance of Rob Jackson and Chris Wilson this year, can the Redskins reasonably enter the next regular season without a legitimate reserve. I have faith (because that's all I can call it) that Orakpo will return and not re-injure his pectoral, and become the elite defensive presence that this defense needs. I anticipate Kerrigan to be a better pass rusher next season as well, because we all know that he has shown himself to be hard-working and smart. Would the Redskins be wise to consider a young talented pass rusher in the draft?

Last thought: This group was the greatest strength of the team before the season, and it has largely underwhelmed us this season. Should we be concerned about this unit in 2013 and on, or am I simply over-thinking?

It all comes back to that thread of Thai's, but I extend it to the ILB position, not just the pass rusher spot. How important is the ILB position and is the team 'set' at the position?
_________________

Blknite01's masterpiece
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 62234
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't touch ilb in this years draft. Lets not forget, Navarro Bowman was a 3rd round pick. We have two 4th round picks as Ilbs. One is a starter (Riley) one could be a starter if Fletch is gone next year (Robinson).

You are jumping the gun on fletch also IMO. He struggled when he was injured. When fletch has been healthy, he's played well- example week 1 and the last two weeks.

I don't think at this time we need to spend a high pick on the LB position. I'd wait to see what we currently try have with these young guys next year. I'd upgrade the secondary. If next year we are struggling at LB, then I'd draft one in round 2 or 3 of the 2013 draft.

Same goes for positions like wr, te, rb, interior Ol and DL. IMO
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md
Quote:
Preseason 8; Final Cuts 31; Reg Season 39
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
kerrdawg


Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 854
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think London will be back next year, but I think Robinson will be playing in passing situations. I think a bigger concern at this point is at OLB. I don't see how we can pass up a pass rushing OLB if one is available in the 2nd or 3rd round. It's obvious we need someone who can get after the QB not only in case of injury, but also to spell Orkapo/Kerrigan on long drives. As much as I love that Kerrigan never gets a snap off, I think he could be more effective with some well timed rest.
_________________
You play to win the game! -Herm Edwards
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TLSkins


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Posts: 379
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Haslett gets let go after this season, I'm assuming Raheem Morris will take over the job as defensive coordinator. This would likely result us moving back to 4-3
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Woz


Moderator
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 19390
Location: in a land where the furniture folds to a much smaller size
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TLSkins wrote:
If Haslett gets let go after this season, I'm assuming Raheem Morris will take over the job as defensive coordinator. This would likely result us moving back to 4-3


I would be surprised if they A) gave Morris the DC job, and B) switched back to a 4-3 given the investment they've put into getting 3-4 personnel.

I wouldn't be surprised if they kept Haslett, nor would I be surprised if he were fired.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 62234
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TLSkins wrote:
If Haslett gets let go after this season, I'm assuming Raheem Morris will take over the job as defensive coordinator. This would likely result us moving back to 4-3
that has nothing to do with this topic
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md
Quote:
Preseason 8; Final Cuts 31; Reg Season 39
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Woz


Moderator
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 19390
Location: in a land where the furniture folds to a much smaller size
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
I wouldn't touch ilb in this years draft. Lets not forget, Navarro Bowman was a 3rd round pick. We have two 4th round picks as Ilbs. One is a starter (Riley) one could be a starter if Fletch is gone next year (Robinson).


Not sure I follow here. You say not to touch an ILB in this draft, but then point to Bowman being a third rounder. This would imply that we could look to ILB if the value was there.

Quote:
You are jumping the gun on fletch also IMO. He struggled when he was injured. When fletch has been healthy, he's played well- example week 1 and the last two weeks.


At the same time, Fletcher is 37 and will be 38 in May. We need to address the position sooner rather than later.

If Robinson had not gotten hurt, I would say we could maybe let it ride. However, Robinson tore his pec (same sort of injury as Orakpo), so we have to factor in that its possible he could be in the same situation.

Quote:
I don't think at this time we need to spend a high pick on the LB position. I'd wait to see what we currently try have with these young guys next year. I'd upgrade the secondary. If next year we are struggling at LB, then I'd draft one in round 2 or 3 of the 2013 draft.


You don't want to put yourself in a situations where you HAVE to take a player at a position. If we can get a solid linebacker this year, we can have the rook learn under Fletcher now instead of having to rely on a 2014 rook.

Quote:
Same goes for positions like wr, te, rb, interior Ol and DL. IMO


WR? Probably taken care of via our free agents and draft picks.
TE? Would depend on what we do with Davis. I could see us making a pick though.
RB? Yeah, that would be a bit of a waste.
Interior OL and DL? You can never have enough linemen. I wouldn't make it a priority, but I wouldn't pass up a good player.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 62234
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I wouldn't touch ilb in this years draft. Lets not forget, Navarro Bowman was a 3rd round pick. We have two 4th round picks as Ilbs. One is a starter (Riley) one could be a starter if Fletch is gone next year (Robinson).


Not sure I follow here. You say not to touch an ILB in this draft, but then point to Bowman being a third rounder. This would imply that we could look to ILB if the value was there.

Quote:
You are jumping the gun on fletch also IMO. He struggled when he was injured. When fletch has been healthy, he's played well- example week 1 and the last two weeks.


At the same time, Fletcher is 37 and will be 38 in May. We need to address the position sooner rather than later.

If Robinson had not gotten hurt, I would say we could maybe let it ride. However, Robinson tore his pec (same sort of injury as Orakpo), so we have to factor in that its possible he could be in the same situation.

Quote:
I don't think at this time we need to spend a high pick on the LB position. I'd wait to see what we currently try have with these young guys next year. I'd upgrade the secondary. If next year we are struggling at LB, then I'd draft one in round 2 or 3 of the 2013 draft.


You don't want to put yourself in a situations where you HAVE to take a player at a position. If we can get a solid linebacker this year, we can have the rook learn under Fletcher now instead of having to rely on a 2014 rook.

Quote:
Same goes for positions like wr, te, rb, interior Ol and DL. IMO


WR? Probably taken care of via our free agents and draft picks.
TE? Would depend on what we do with Davis. I could see us making a pick though.
RB? Yeah, that would be a bit of a waste.
Interior OL and DL? You can never have enough linemen. I wouldn't make it a priority, but I wouldn't pass up a good player.
most of the time I agree with your post, BUT, we have definitely put ourselves in a position where Rt and the secondary are NEED positions above those positions you listed IMO. If we ignore those positions in the 2012 draft, I don't see the team improving much, if at all.
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md
Quote:
Preseason 8; Final Cuts 31; Reg Season 39
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
AntiSuperstar


Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 4444
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fletcher has struggled with injuries this season but I'm not ready to write him off. With his experience I still think he's a valuable member of the team and to me money is the most important factor here. The #1 reason not to keep Fletcher would simply be to save as much money as possible.

Whatever they do though they must re-sign Lorenzo Alexander. He's the best Special Teams player on the team and he's also a versatile Linebacker. I think re-signing him should actually be one of the main priorities in the off-season.

Perry Riley is good, no problem with him being a long-term guy at ILB. It's just a shame he can't cover better, I think he would be one of the more complete Linebackers if he could. I don't want to rush Robinson into a starting role, but he's obviously the coverage oriented speed Linebacker long term. If the team doesn't keep Fletcher, Robinson should probably play more in the rotation but I don't agree with making him the starter or in general making it necessary for him to play.

Frankly if Fletcher goes I would like to see the Redskins add a physical run stopping Linebacker(who hopefully is a good Special Teams player as well). Right now Lorenzo Alexander plays the role of the extra Linebacker in goal line packages and it's the one thing I don't like about him. I don't think he's anything special against the run. If Fletcher is gone Lorenzo should replace him(I definately don't want Robinson to be the goal line defender right now) and ideally I would like to see a better guy filling in at Lorenzo's spot in those goal line packages. Maybe Rob Jackson could be moved to ILB in these situations but I expect the better move would be to pick a natural ILB up.
_________________
Stop slobbering over Brian Dawkins
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Woz


Moderator
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 19390
Location: in a land where the furniture folds to a much smaller size
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
most of the time I agree with your post, BUT, we have definitely put ourselves in a position where Rt and the secondary are NEED positions above those positions you listed IMO. If we ignore those positions in the 2012 draft, I don't see the team improving much, if at all.


No arguments that we need secondary help and a new right tackle would be good too.

However, would you agree that the fact we're in this position is a bad thing? Would it make sense to carry this problem forward if we can fix it this year? Remember, we took LeRibeus because interior offensive line help was a need, which caused us to skip other players where we thought were better value. Perhaps LeRibeus pans out, but was that a value pick?

Again, it would depend on who is available when we pick.

On a related note, PARROTHEAD, what do you think of Kevin Minter? I ask because CBS Sports right now lists the LSU guy as the 2nd best ILB in the draft and list him as their 71st overall prospect (2nd/3rd round value).

Anyone: thoughts on Nico Johnson (Alabama) or Shayne Skov (Stanford)?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Woz


Moderator
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 19390
Location: in a land where the furniture folds to a much smaller size
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
Fletcher has struggled with injuries this season but I'm not ready to write him off. With his experience I still think he's a valuable member of the team and to me money is the most important factor here. The #1 reason not to keep Fletcher would simply be to save as much money as possible.


)art of the issue is that while he has a $5.5M, $1.75M of that is guaranteed for injury. Combined with $1.75M of his salary cap pro-ration, if he's hurt (and I think the argument could be made), cutting him would save only $2M. If he's not hurt, cutting him would save him $3.75M.

Is that worth it?

Quote:
Whatever they do though they must re-sign Lorenzo Alexander. He's the best Special Teams player on the team and he's also a versatile Linebacker. I think re-signing him should actually be one of the main priorities in the off-season.


I'd be a bit surprised if Alexander went elsewhere unless the Redskins choose not to re-sign him. He's got deep roots here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 62234
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
most of the time I agree with your post, BUT, we have definitely put ourselves in a position where Rt and the secondary are NEED positions above those positions you listed IMO. If we ignore those positions in the 2012 draft, I don't see the team improving much, if at all.


No arguments that we need secondary help and a new right tackle would be good too.

However, would you agree that the fact we're in this position is a bad thing? Would it make sense to carry this problem forward if we can fix it this year? Remember, we took LeRibeus because interior offensive line help was a need, which caused us to skip other players where we thought were better value. Perhaps LeRibeus pans out, but was that a value pick?

Again, it would depend on who is available when we pick.

On a related note, PARROTHEAD, what do you think of Kevin Minter? I ask because CBS Sports right now lists the LSU guy as the 2nd best ILB in the draft and list him as their 71st overall prospect (2nd/3rd round value).

Anyone: thoughts on Nico Johnson (Alabama) or Shayne Skov (Stanford)?
imo no matter where we pick and who is available, there will be a DB worthy of that selection. DB is loaded this year, really loaded in the draft. Ill agree, Rt is not that way, so it might be hard to pick up a starter or future starter at RT for our scheme if a guy like Fisher is not available in round 2. Stilly though, there will be several DBs who will be worthy of a second round pick or 3rd round pick available and if that's the case IMO the need will be so great we should go I that direction.

I really like all the LBs you mentioned and I would love to draft any of them, IF, IF DB has already been addresses in FA and earlier in the draft and greatly upgraded.

All three LBs you listed I believe should be available in the late 2nd or even third round. They are all 3 fierce hitters. I know they are all tremendous athletes and I know they would be great prospects for our future. I don't think a team could go wrong with any of the 3. They are all leaders of their defenses and those defenses are some of the best in the nation.
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md
Quote:
Preseason 8; Final Cuts 31; Reg Season 39


Last edited by turtle28 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
footy_29


Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 11394
Location: The Frozen Tundra that is Canada
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PARROTHEAD, I will also be very interested to hear your opinion of Kevin Minter as he was the player I had in mind for the second round of the 2013 draft.

It would be great if Fletcher is healthy next year and plays better than he has so far, but I am hesitant to believe that will be the case. I can see keeping Fletcher, even if he continues his decline, to ensure that Keenan Robinson receives adequate tutelage.

Even though Lorenzo is a valuable player, aside from Keenan Robinson the reserves need to be upgraded. Therefore, I am coming around to the idea of Fletcher staying because the priority probably should be the OLB position this season. If Fletcher stays another year, that will push the need to upgrade the depth to another year, either via free agency or the draft.

2013 FA list)
_________________

Blknite01's masterpiece
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Thaiphoon


Moderator
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 14107
Location: Northern Virginia
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
most of the time I agree with your post, BUT, we have definitely put ourselves in a position where Rt and the secondary are NEED positions above those positions you listed IMO. If we ignore those positions in the 2012 draft, I don't see the team improving much, if at all.


No arguments that we need secondary help and a new right tackle would be good too.

However, would you agree that the fact we're in this position is a bad thing? Would it make sense to carry this problem forward if we can fix it this year? Remember, we took LeRibeus because interior offensive line help was a need, which caused us to skip other players where we thought were better value. Perhaps LeRibeus pans out, but was that a value pick?

Again, it would depend on who is available when we pick.

On a related note, PARROTHEAD, what do you think of Kevin Minter? I ask because CBS Sports right now lists the LSU guy as the 2nd best ILB in the draft and list him as their 71st overall prospect (2nd/3rd round value).

Anyone: thoughts on Nico Johnson (Alabama) or Shayne Skov (Stanford)?


This is what I was arguing in my earlier post about the Front 7. I know secondary is a need. But if we could get a game changer at ILB who could cover and play the run (and rush the passer) in the 2nd I think that might outweigh grabbing a CB. The upcoming draft is deep in secondary and while LB may not be as much of a "need" as a DB, we can position ourselves to get more value from taking an LB in the 2nd.

Again, though...this is IF the value is there. It very well could be the value is better taking a CB in the 2nd and an LB in the 3rd (or 4th).
_________________


Being Vague Is Almost As Much Fun As That Other Thing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dashing


Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 3685
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Ds been better but still not very good other than the eagles game. As Woz said the 4-3 makes more sense and no same to it we have more 4-3 personals than 3-4 personals and the fact is our defensive coaching staff are 4-3 staffs ......its probably another good reason why we struggle on defense.


Rex Ryan and Romeo should be our targets for a DC.
_________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXTNES_L3s0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkJ8_uNMM_I&list=LLRM2s0GoIPWV7foTBLfFMRw&feature=mh_lolz
^^^^I like to I like to I like to ^_^
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Washington Redskins All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group