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Atwater, TD, Mecklenburg HOF '13 Semifinalist
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broncosfan07


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:07 pm    Post subject: Atwater, TD, Mecklenburg HOF '13 Semifinalist Reply with quote

http://www.profootballhof.com/enshrinement/2012/11/30/2013-Semifinalists-for-Football-Hall-of-Fame/

All 3 deserve to be in but only see Atwater getting in anytime soon.
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AKRNA


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's more the hall of "decent and durable". Just watch, Bettis will get in while TD is told he didn't play long enough.

Lynch will get in and Atwater won't. Same thing, decent and durable.

Just my opinion.
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7DnBrnc53


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
It's more the hall of "decent and durable". Just watch, Bettis will get in while TD is told he didn't play long enough.

Lynch will get in and Atwater won't. Same thing, decent and durable.

Just my opinion.


Sayers and Earl Campbell didn't play much longer than TD, and they are in, so TD should be in.

And, I don't think that applies to Atwater. He played 11 years, which is long enough in my opinion.
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germ-x


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
It's more the hall of "decent and durable". Just watch, Bettis will get in while TD is told he didn't play long enough.

Lynch will get in and Atwater won't. Same thing, decent and durable.

Just my opinion.


The HOF doesn't work perfectly, but i really don't have a problem with durability and longevity playing a key role.

I am probably one of the few Bronco fans that thinks this, but i don't think Terrell Davis is Hall of Fame worthy for the fact that he only really played 4 years of football. He was great during that time, but 4 years of playing at that level isn't enough, IMO. I mean, the Titans Chris Johnson would be darn close to cementing a spot in the HOF by those standards.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heidi skinner c53"]
AKRNA wrote:
It's more the hall of "decent and durable". Just watch, Bettis will get in while TD is told he didn't play long enough.

Lynch will get in and Atwater won't. Same thing, decent and durable.

Just my opinion.


Sayers and Earl Campbell didn't play much longer than TD, and they are in, so TD should be in.

And, I don't think that applies to Atwater. He played 11 years, which is long enough in my opinion.[/quote]

Atwater absolutely deserves to be in, but the safety position in general is so underrepresented that he likely won't. Mecklenburg absolutely should be in by now. I'm undecided about TD. I love him, but I don't think he played long enough. He was great for sure but that's iffy.
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AKRNA


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

germ-x wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
It's more the hall of "decent and durable". Just watch, Bettis will get in while TD is told he didn't play long enough.

Lynch will get in and Atwater won't. Same thing, decent and durable.

Just my opinion.


The HOF doesn't work perfectly, but i really don't have a problem with durability and longevity playing a key role.

I am probably one of the few Bronco fans that thinks this, but i don't think Terrell Davis is Hall of Fame worthy for the fact that he only really played 4 years of football. He was great during that time, but 4 years of playing at that level isn't enough, IMO. I mean, the Titans Chris Johnson would be darn close to cementing a spot in the HOF by those standards.


Thats a terrible comparison and not even close. TD had the most decorated 1st 4 years of ANY NFL player in history. PERIOD! A shame his career was effectively ended in the 4th game of his 5th year.

Look at the three years following his rookie season..
3 time Pro Bowl
3 time 1st team All Pro
twice NFL Offensive Player of the Year (1996,1998)
NFL MVP 1998
1997 Super Bowl MVP
2 Time SB winner

He's one of only 6 men to gain 2000 yds rushing in a season. Unlike Johnson who had his best year in his 2nd season and has gone downhill since, TD got better every year, even with a huge target on him.

Try to find one other player who's ever achieved so much in such a short period of time. THERE ISN'T ONE. Not even close.
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1234567


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
germ-x wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
It's more the hall of "decent and durable". Just watch, Bettis will get in while TD is told he didn't play long enough.

Lynch will get in and Atwater won't. Same thing, decent and durable.

Just my opinion.


The HOF doesn't work perfectly, but i really don't have a problem with durability and longevity playing a key role.

I am probably one of the few Bronco fans that thinks this, but i don't think Terrell Davis is Hall of Fame worthy for the fact that he only really played 4 years of football. He was great during that time, but 4 years of playing at that level isn't enough, IMO. I mean, the Titans Chris Johnson would be darn close to cementing a spot in the HOF by those standards.


Thats a terrible comparison and not even close. TD had the most decorated 1st 4 years of ANY NFL player in history. PERIOD! A shame his career was effectively ended in the 4th game of his 5th year.

Look at the three years following his rookie season..
3 time Pro Bowl
3 time 1st team All Pro
twice NFL Offensive Player of the Year (1996,1998)
NFL MVP 1998
1997 Super Bowl MVP
2 Time SB winner

He's one of only 6 men to gain 2000 yds rushing in a season. Unlike Johnson who had his best year in his 2nd season and has gone downhill since, TD got better every year, even with a huge target on him.

Try to find one other player who's ever achieved so much in such a short period of time. THERE ISN'T ONE. Not even close.


What's really sad is when you look at all the 1000 yard rushers we had afterwords. None of those guys were even CLOSE to TD. Imagine if he'd been the one behind the line for that entire stretch. Pretty safe to assume 1600 yards and 10 td/season for at least another 4-5 years after his injury. Forget HOF, we'd be having a GOAT discussion right now.
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AnAngryAmerican


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too am undecided on TD. Something that I think works against him is that a number of players also had great success in our (Shanahan's) ZBS running scheme. While it's true that Mike Anderson, Clinton Portis, Rueben Droughns, etc didn't have the same level of success that TD did, the fact that they had a lot success in the system works against TD in the minds in a lot of the HOF voters.

Of the 27 nominees, the following would get my vote.

Larry Allen
Steve Atwater
Tim Brown
Cris Carter
Don Coryell
Kevin Greene
Karl Mecklenburg
Jonathan Ogden
Bill Parcells
Warren Sapp
Wil Shields
Michael Strahan
Paul Tagliabue
Aeneas Williams
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germ-x


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
germ-x wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
It's more the hall of "decent and durable". Just watch, Bettis will get in while TD is told he didn't play long enough.

Lynch will get in and Atwater won't. Same thing, decent and durable.

Just my opinion.


The HOF doesn't work perfectly, but i really don't have a problem with durability and longevity playing a key role.

I am probably one of the few Bronco fans that thinks this, but i don't think Terrell Davis is Hall of Fame worthy for the fact that he only really played 4 years of football. He was great during that time, but 4 years of playing at that level isn't enough, IMO. I mean, the Titans Chris Johnson would be darn close to cementing a spot in the HOF by those standards.


Thats a terrible comparison and not even close. TD had the most decorated 1st 4 years of ANY NFL player in history. PERIOD! A shame his career was effectively ended in the 4th game of his 5th year.

Look at the three years following his rookie season..
3 time Pro Bowl
3 time 1st team All Pro
twice NFL Offensive Player of the Year (1996,1998)
NFL MVP 1998
1997 Super Bowl MVP
2 Time SB winner

He's one of only 6 men to gain 2000 yds rushing in a season. Unlike Johnson who had his best year in his 2nd season and has gone downhill since, TD got better every year, even with a huge target on him.

Try to find one other player who's ever achieved so much in such a short period of time. THERE ISN'T ONE. Not even close.


It is a terrible comparison because of your viewpoint on it.

Chris Johnson has statistically produced at a similar rate as Terrell Davis did from '95-'98. If you break down the numbers the only distinct advantage Davis has on Johnson is touchdowns. Aside from that they are virtually identical.
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Donut


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont think Davis should get in and won't. Atwater should be. Damn shame the difficulty for Safetys to get in.

I'd love for Tasker to get in eventually. I love fantastic STs play by gunners. But I agree w/ AAA's list.
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Russell2Bailey


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donut wrote:
I dont think Davis should get in and won't. Atwater should be. Damn shame the difficulty for Safetys to get in.

I'd love for Tasker to get in eventually. I love fantastic STs play by gunners. But I agree w/ AAA's list.


Steve Tasker is more deserving than Terrell Davis? I've heard it all.


The ONLY reason TD won't get in is because of career length. He has every accolade you could want.
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Donut


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russell2Bailey wrote:
Donut wrote:
I dont think Davis should get in and won't. Atwater should be. Damn shame the difficulty for Safetys to get in.

I'd love for Tasker to get in eventually. I love fantastic STs play by gunners. But I agree w/ AAA's list.


Steve Tasker is more deserving than Terrell Davis? I've heard it all.


The ONLY reason TD won't get in is because of career length. He has every accolade you could want.
Greatest Special Teamer ever. He won't get in but I absolutely love special teams. I mean Matt Slater is one of my favorite players. Hell I'd be ecstatic if Drew Bledsoe got into the HOF doesnt mean I think it will happen or that he deserves it. Chris Johnson is 4 games off from hitting TD's career total. Davis has 1000 more rushing yrds and 18 more TDs and 1 more receiving. CJ2k has higher YPC, receptions and receiving yards(51 more receptions, 321 receiving yrds) also he has 6 less fumbles.
Say at the end of this season Adrian Peterson retires is he a HOFer?

In 6 more games:
Peterson has 381 more yards, 11 more TDs, 414 more receiving yards, 2 less receiving TDs, and 5 more fumbles.

Career length is very important. Though Earl Campbell is only player that didnt play in 60s and 70s that didnt hit 10k rushing(6 total).
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Russell2Bailey


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donut wrote:
Russell2Bailey wrote:
Donut wrote:
I dont think Davis should get in and won't. Atwater should be. Damn shame the difficulty for Safetys to get in.

I'd love for Tasker to get in eventually. I love fantastic STs play by gunners. But I agree w/ AAA's list.


Steve Tasker is more deserving than Terrell Davis? I've heard it all.


The ONLY reason TD won't get in is because of career length. He has every accolade you could want.
Greatest Special Teamer ever. He won't get in but I absolutely love special teams. I mean Matt Slater is one of my favorite players. Hell I'd be ecstatic if Drew Bledsoe got into the HOF doesnt mean I think it will happen or that he deserves it. Chris Johnson is 4 games off from hitting TD's career total. Davis has 1000 more rushing yrds and 18 more TDs and 1 more receiving. CJ2k has higher YPC, receptions and receiving yards(51 more receptions, 321 receiving yrds) also he has 6 less fumbles.
Say at the end of this season Adrian Peterson retires is he a HOFer?

In 6 more games:
Peterson has 381 more yards, 11 more TDs, 414 more receiving yards, 2 less receiving TDs, and 5 more fumbles.

Career length is very important. Though Earl Campbell is only player that didnt play in 60s and 70s that didnt hit 10k rushing(6 total).


in 6 more games he has 1 less League MVP, 1 less SB MVP, 2 less SB rings, 1 less all pro, and 1 more pro bowl. Adrian Peterson is relied on more than TD was, not to mention way more physically gifted.
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AKRNA


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russell2Bailey wrote:
Donut wrote:
Russell2Bailey wrote:
Donut wrote:
I dont think Davis should get in and won't. Atwater should be. Damn shame the difficulty for Safetys to get in.

I'd love for Tasker to get in eventually. I love fantastic STs play by gunners. But I agree w/ AAA's list.


Steve Tasker is more deserving than Terrell Davis? I've heard it all.


The ONLY reason TD won't get in is because of career length. He has every accolade you could want.
Greatest Special Teamer ever. He won't get in but I absolutely love special teams. I mean Matt Slater is one of my favorite players. Hell I'd be ecstatic if Drew Bledsoe got into the HOF doesnt mean I think it will happen or that he deserves it. Chris Johnson is 4 games off from hitting TD's career total. Davis has 1000 more rushing yrds and 18 more TDs and 1 more receiving. CJ2k has higher YPC, receptions and receiving yards(51 more receptions, 321 receiving yrds) also he has 6 less fumbles.
Say at the end of this season Adrian Peterson retires is he a HOFer?

In 6 more games:
Peterson has 381 more yards, 11 more TDs, 414 more receiving yards, 2 less receiving TDs, and 5 more fumbles.

Career length is very important. Though Earl Campbell is only player that didnt play in 60s and 70s that didnt hit 10k rushing(6 total).


in 6 more games he has 1 less League MVP, 1 less SB MVP, 2 less SB rings, 1 less all pro, and 1 more pro bowl. Adrian Peterson is relied on more than TD was, not to mention way more physically gifted.


You forgot two less Offensive Player of the Year awards, 1 less 2000 yd season and 1 fewer season above 1500 yards rushing. TD did it 3 out of 4.

It should be noted that after TD's injury he only played in 13 more games and was never close to the player he was scoring only 2 TD's, and averaging 30 yds per game less and only 4 YPC. Far less than his 4.8 YPC through his 1st 4 years. His career effectively was 4 years, 3 1/2 games.
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Donut


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russell2Bailey wrote:
Donut wrote:
Russell2Bailey wrote:
Donut wrote:
I dont think Davis should get in and won't. Atwater should be. Damn shame the difficulty for Safetys to get in.

I'd love for Tasker to get in eventually. I love fantastic STs play by gunners. But I agree w/ AAA's list.


Steve Tasker is more deserving than Terrell Davis? I've heard it all.


The ONLY reason TD won't get in is because of career length. He has every accolade you could want.
Greatest Special Teamer ever. He won't get in but I absolutely love special teams. I mean Matt Slater is one of my favorite players. Hell I'd be ecstatic if Drew Bledsoe got into the HOF doesnt mean I think it will happen or that he deserves it. Chris Johnson is 4 games off from hitting TD's career total. Davis has 1000 more rushing yrds and 18 more TDs and 1 more receiving. CJ2k has higher YPC, receptions and receiving yards(51 more receptions, 321 receiving yrds) also he has 6 less fumbles.
Say at the end of this season Adrian Peterson retires is he a HOFer?

In 6 more games:
Peterson has 381 more yards, 11 more TDs, 414 more receiving yards, 2 less receiving TDs, and 5 more fumbles.

Career length is very important. Though Earl Campbell is only player that didnt play in 60s and 70s that didnt hit 10k rushing(6 total).


in 6 more games he has 1 less League MVP, 1 less SB MVP, 2 less SB rings, 1 less all pro, and 1 more pro bowl. Adrian Peterson is relied on more than TD was, not to mention way more physically gifted.

He's been on a bad team. So if he's relied on more and he should be seeing more guys in box since he has worse talent around him being on a far worse team. I dont see how him being more physically gifted is an advantage for TD or that AP is relied on more. Also AP has 4 AP 2 first team 2 2nd team.

I dont think AP is HOFer right now and he should get more APs but right now neither should go in HOF but Peterson did more w/ the touches he got so far Davis did statistically, obviously team didnt since they've had 2 winning record since he got there. The only real argument is his MVP and super bowl MVps but those don't make him have a way better career than Peterson thus far. Right now I wouldn't vote either into HOF. But there isn't much of an argument for Davis right now that doesn't fit for peterson, except awards.
AKRNA wrote:

You forgot two less Offensive Player of the Year awards, 1 less 2000 yd season and 1 fewer season above 1500 yards rushing. TD did it 3 out of 4.

It should be noted that after TD's injury he only played in 13 more games and was never close to the player he was scoring only 2 TD's, and averaging 30 yds per game less and only 4 YPC. Far less than his 4.8 YPC through his 1st 4 years. His career effectively was 4 years, 3 1/2 games.

Again career longevity is important. He's always going to be one of the what if he never got hurt guys. But its part of his career that he couldn't bounceback to form. he was a dominant player and burnt out. Being able to play for a long time is an impressive thing and really is one of the more consistent requirements of HOFers. There really isn't a player ever like TD to set a precedent but length of the career is something that should be noted and what has to be done in a short period to be a HOFer at other positions. Honestly its unfathomable to me to vote in any Olman, QBs, or any defensive players based on 3 seasons of work and I can't say it should change for RBs even though what he had 3 amazing seasons.
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