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Musgrave isn't the problem...
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disaacs


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
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Location: Brownbackistan
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vikings win and Ponder plays well---> Musgrave is a genius

Vikings lose or Ponder doesn't play well ---> It's Musgrave's fault

There, did I summarize it enough? Wink
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disaacs


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vikefan79 wrote:
3rd and 2 - Pass play
4th and 2 - Pass play


This is why people don't care for Musgrave. Peterson is carrying us down the field and he ruins that momentum but calling poorly executed pass plays.


Musgrave addressed it...

Quote:
We anticipated blitz. We didnít do very well in any of the third or fourth-and-shorts during the game. I think the first two third-and-shorts we threw it if Iím not mistaken for 25 yards each time. We anticipated blitz there. The next two third-and-shorts we did run Adrian and we got stuffed. Thatís an area where we need to improve, both conceptually and execution wise. Weíve got to make improvements when weíre in that situation in the future.


http://www.vikings.com/news/article-1/Vikings-Quotes---Coordinators---November-29/4d02d7f0-561c-4523-a4b0-3f75602c4bce

So, in essence, he admitted that he overthought it without actually admitting it. Wink
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this providence


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have zero problem with Musgrave. He utilizes his two best offensive talents perfectly and both are on pace to have extremely productive seasons.

I actually think he's done remarkably well considering he's got one of the league worst passing offenses to work with. It's got to be difficult to look at the passing game this team can utilize and figure out what exactly it does well and base the gameplan and calls around that. At a certain point it has to be about execution.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems odd to criticize Musgrave honestly, considering he has a young QB and little WR talent to work with. Considering Harvin and Peterson have a ton of touches this year, he has done a good job overall. Sure we can nitpick a play here and there but you can with every coach.
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PrplChilPill


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

disaacs wrote:
Vikings win and Ponder plays well---> Musgrave is a genius

Vikings lose or Ponder doesn't play well ---> It's Musgrave's fault

There, did I summarize it enough? Wink


Not for all of us, some of us are very consistent in our opinion on Musgrave, but since it is bad form to post negative thoughts after a win, we rarely do so after a win.
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AP_allday2869


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you don't have Adrian in within 5 yards on the endzone, that is a huge problem. Like someone said, he'll throw on third or fourth and 1. or pass for a series without running. That is a no-no with AD as you back.

Although with our passing game, it would be hard for any OC to look amazing.

Thats my opinion any way.
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ArcticNorseman


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What really does an offensive coordinator do?

Sure, nearly every post is about playcalling . . . is that really it? Just it?

The guy is a talented offensive mind and learned from some of the best in the business while he carried a clipboard . . . so, maybe he's earned some grace.

For instance, how does an OC break down the field, as well as the likely defense called against the offense under any given situation? On 3rd and 1, 40-yardline, we all know Adrian should get the ball, and if he doesn't make it? --- Whaaat! C'mon man, need a bootleg roll-out to the TE on that play!!!!! . . . it's humorous. Laughing

Now 2 yard line, goal to go -- can't disagree with anyone that Adrian should've gotten the ball. But maybe he played percentages of the Vikes O-line and TEs not being able to get helmet on helmet and win at the line of scrimmage . . . . like that happened every play that game. Wink So, he made two pass play calls and they didn't work. Sucks!!! But given the penetration we've witnessed up the middle -- who's going to win from the 2? Felton and Adrian -- or -- Melton, Briggs and Urlacher?

Anybody can look up the Bears run stopping at the goal line since Urlacher and Briggs have been patrolling back there. How many times have they let an opponent score, much less a rushing TD?

Musgrave has some tools to work with, but is he going to turn Ponder into Matty Ice without a Roddy White and Julio Jones? No, he won't, and for now if he calls plays where Adrian gets 6 yards a carry and Ponder completes 65+% of his passes, that's about all we can ask.

There won't be many deep balls, no fireworks, no quick-strike. This offense will be mundane, to an extent (until some new toys get put in the toolbox). But if it's methodical and effective, they'll win a lot of games.
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SteelKing728


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps its unfair to judge Musgrave due to the mess he's in.

1) Working with a young, relatively inexpierenced QB.

2) Outside Harvin, the Wide Recievers are awful/unproven

3) Interior Oline is less than ideal.

Put him in a position to succeed and see where he goes. I'm not saying he should be the guy, but I could understand if we keep him around for another year..
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CriminalMind


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with your 3 points but would say this, shouldn't all that lead to to more simplistic play calling, and running the ball?

Thats my beef with his play calling.
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perrynoid


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
I agree with your 3 points but would say this, shouldn't all that lead to to more simplistic play calling, and running the ball?

Thats my beef with his play calling.


In order to accomplish what you suggest, wouldn't that mean getting better guards? Just sayin'...
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CriminalMind


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

perrynoid wrote:
CriminalMind wrote:
I agree with your 3 points but would say this, shouldn't all that lead to to more simplistic play calling, and running the ball?

Thats my beef with his play calling.


In order to accomplish what you suggest, wouldn't that mean getting better guards? Just sayin'...


Yea and No
The Guards were being exposed the most in pass protection.
When the pocket collapses, Ponder cant step into the throws to add zip, and he has to further move back if he guy is being pushed back into him.

If you had to choose between poor pass protection + "average (at best) QB play" OR poor blocking + elite RB play, which should an OC choose as their preference?

Its running the ball when in doubt, and I dont even think we have poor blocking from the Gs (but that cuz AP makes them look decent)
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SteelKing728


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
I agree with your 3 points but would say this, shouldn't all that lead to to more simplistic play calling, and running the ball?

Thats my beef with his play calling.


You would think so.

Maybe he's just over-thinking it?

I don't want to make any excuses for him, because it doesn't work like that in the NFL. I hope Musgrave can do his job as a coach and the players can execute his gameplan well.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or is he..? An article from Jason La Canfora about coordinators likely to go.

Quote:
Vikings offensive coordinator Bill Musgrave: It's been a dream season for the Vikings, and running back Adrian Peterson, but Minnesota's offense has been tough to watch. Quarterback Christian Ponder has not made strides, and with such a powerful running game it's been shocking to see the lack of explosive plays or vertical play-action threats it should trigger. Head coach Leslie Frazier has been advised by some to find a new coordinator even if AP breaks the rushing record, and I'd be very surprised if Ponder does not have a different voice in his ear come 2013.


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/21449618/monday-observations-jets-sparano-among-coordinators-likely-to-get-boot
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vikesnewcoach11


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

His longest stint was 4 years in Atlanta. He has really proven nothing since he's been in the NFL and has been fired multiple times after a year or two. We need a guy with a better offensive mind. And also his play calling has been beyond pathetic at some points
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Musgrave is let go, Norv Turner would be my top choice.
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